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Trying to understand the turntable/vinyl world...

IPunchCholla

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Character assasination deleted - world’s worst way of saying “you are entirely correct”. The rest is okay.

The absolute killer about vinyl is its horrible, horrible sample variability. 1 in 10,000 CD’s is not as good as the absolute reference copy CD of that release, even after years of constant playing. For vinyl, 1 in 10,000 is. There are quite a number of ways that an individual LP can have an irritating defect from new, or pick one up over the course of its life. Hear a friend’s CD, and go buy one with huge confidence that it will sound identical. For LP, even the print number from the metal lacquer makes a difference. Added to all the other sample variation factors, and it’s completely unacceptable, to the audiophile. This is not about the audibility of the SQ difference of that perfect reference LP.
There was absolutely no character assassination in my post. This is the second time you’ve claimed I’m being somehow offensive. I don’t believe I am. If you are going to make that claim support it.

I posted my disagreement with his characterization of the differences in SQ with why I disagree. I did this reasonably to someone who posts videos of sheep and all caps one sentence slams.

Finally, I am not an audiophile. I am interested in the science of audio. My goal is maximizing my pleasure in listening to music. Your definitions of perfection are not the most important for achieving that.
 

AdamG247

Coadjutor Miscreant and general Scalawag
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Yep. You are literally repeating everything I've stipulated. But not putting numbers to it. All those effects add up to an absolute max of ~35-45 db of noise. OMG that's a lot! Except is it? Known max THD+N (this is all very rough as all sorts of temporal phenomena change this depending on any number of variable, see bibliography)) differentiation of sine waves is ~120dB. Reliable max (given average hearing) is ~85dB. Reliable detection in music (given trained listener and unrestricted A/B) is about ~60. I usually listen at 75dB sometimes I crank it up to 90. How much noise free dBSPL can I access even in the best conditions? Given my noise floor of 25-40 (measured A weighted) how much of the noise of the LP is audible? How deep into the noise floor can my 120 SINAD DAC and 100 SINAD amp dig given my reasonable listening levels? How far given the elevated distortion into power for higher frequencies (to my 50 year old ears). Does that distortion add or multiple or mask vinyl distortion?

Auditory memory lasts for about 250 mS. Echoic memory is from there to a few-30 seconds. Why do those things matter? Because they dictate what we can reasonably expect to understand for physical perceptions of sounds shorter than a quarter second. Because they have implications for our ability to distinguish sounds presented even that slightly separated in time. Why does this matter? Because all of that state of the art sound reproduction exists in relation to our ability to actually perceive it. (if the topic is going to address our enjoyment of music). So exactly how much better is digital than vinyl when listened by the weird meat sack computers we are? It isn't light years.

Digital is better. How much better passed the limits of actually meaning anything a while ago. In a sense, audio is now a solved problem. The next steps are miniaturization and commodification. (Or rather the last frontier is to commodify through some form of standardization/Code perfection at all LPs). And understanding perception. (given our knowledge of the physiology and psychology of audio, what are the best strategies for helping people understand why they hear what they hear?). That perfection of reproduction isn't some star a million lightyears from earth. It is hardly different from the clean LP. The difference is small enough, given our meat sack limitations, that a clean LP is indistinguishable to a non-critical listener from lossless digital (same master, volume matched, identical room/speakers, etc.)) if you just separate the playback in time by few minutes. For a critical listener, you just have to wait longer. But the difference are real. They are understandable. And making an informed choice will likely bring you far more enjoyment.

I again stipulate that digital is better in all measurable ways than vinyl. I stipulate that more channels is better.

Vinyl can sound very, very good. That statement does nothing to diminish digital reproduction's status as measuring and by all objective measurements being better. It can acknowledge that we are very limited meat sacks and the supremacy of digital might be small enough within those limitations for someone to say flat out it sounds better and since that is what they believe, it does.

All of this being a very, very long winded way of saying that your antagonism (I think you call it honesty, even though truth doesn't seem to care what clothes it wears, so being truthful cruelly-- well the cruelty is your choice) might be causing you to do more harm than good. I actually agree with you about the facts, but damn, the way you choose to make big deal being gruff, manly, and "truthful" pushes me, someone who considers themselves to be a pretty hardcore objectivist, to want to root against you. If you care about actually changing someone's mind about any of this stuff, you might want to consider that calling them dumb, oblivious, anti-science, etc. isn't gong to be very convincing. It might make you feel better, but it won't convince them. So maybe instead of lightyears, you just point out that in every measurement digital is an improvement, and in fact in many ways surpasses measurable thresholds of audibility. It is also more convenient in absolutely every dimension. But if vinyl for for whatever other reasons is your thing, you can expect to hear pops and clicks, the occasional groove distortion, sometimes some wow if your TT is really shit, but given a good, clean record LPs, it can rock your socks off too. Especially when you play it loud! You know, if you care about changing minds more than being seen to be "truthful". (BTW, I don't think SOTA means what you think it does. At least not in its original, more useful definition.)

But hey. You do you. As they say.

I really shouldn't drunk post. Oh well.

Record: 1Title:Perceptual thresholds for detecting modifications applied to the acoustical properties of a violin.Authors:Fritz C; Centre for Music and Science, Music Faculty, University of Cambridge, West Road, Cambridge CB3 9DP, United Kingdom. [email protected]
Cross I
Moore BC
Woodhouse JSource:The Journal of the Acoustical Society of America [J Acoust Soc Am] 2007 Dec; Vol. 122 (6), pp. 3640-50.Publication Type:Comparative Study; Journal Article; Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov'tLanguage:EnglishJournal Info:Publisher: American Institute of Physics Country of Publication: United States NLM ID: 7503051 Publication Model: Print Cited Medium: Internet ISSN: 1520-8524 (Electronic) Linking ISSN: 00014966 NLM ISO Abbreviation: J Acoust Soc Am Subsets: MEDLINEImprint Name(s):Publication: Melville, NY : American Institute of Physics
Original Publication: Lancaster, Pa. [etc.] : American Institute of Physics for the Acoustical Society of AmericaMeSH Terms:Acoustics*
Auditory Perception*
Auditory Threshold*
Music*
Pitch Perception*
User-Computer Interface*
Acoustic Stimulation ; Adult ; Humans ; Middle Aged ; Models, Statistical ; Motion ; Psychoacoustics ; Signal Processing, Computer-Assisted ; Sound Spectrography ; Transducers ; VibrationAbstract:This study is the first step in the psychoacoustic exploration of perceptual differences between the sounds of different violins. A method was used which enabled the same performance to be replayed on different "virtual violins," so that the relationships between acoustical characteristics of violins and perceived qualities could be explored. Recordings of real performances were made using a bridge-mounted force transducer, giving an accurate representation of the signal from the violin string. These were then played through filters corresponding to the admittance curves of different violins. Initially, limits of listener performance in detecting changes in acoustical characteristics were characterized. These consisted of shifts in frequency or increases in amplitude of single modes or frequency bands that have been proposed previously to be significant in the perception of violin sound quality. Thresholds were significantly lower for musically trained than for nontrained subjects but were not significantly affected by the violin used as a baseline. Thresholds for the musicians typically ranged from 3 to 6 dB for amplitude changes and 1.5%-20% for frequency changes. Interpretation of the results using excitation patterns showed that thresholds for the best subjects were quite well predicted by a multichannel model based on optimal processing.Entry Date(s):Date Created: 20080206 Date Completed: 20080306 Latest Revision: 20080205Update Code:20220301DOI:10.1121/1.2799475PMID:18247771Persistent link to this record (Permalink): https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...db=cmedm&AN=18247771&site=eds-live&scope=siteCut and Paste:<A href="https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...db=cmedm&AN=18247771&site=eds-live&scope=site">Perceptual thresholds for detecting modifications applied to the acoustical properties of a violin.</A>Database:MEDLINE

Record: 2Title:The effect of fluctuations on the perception of low frequency sound.Authors:Moorhouse, A. T.
Waddington, D. C.
Adams, M. D.Source:Noise & Vibration in Industry; Jan-Mar2008, Vol. 22 Issue 2, p45-55, 11p, 3 Charts, 10 GraphsPublication Year:2008Subject Terms:FLUCTUATIONS (Physics)
PHYSIOLOGICAL effects of noise
THRESHOLD (Perception)
AUDITORY perception
SOUNDS
AUDIO frequencyNAICS/Industry Codes:NAICS/Industry Codes 512290 Other Sound Recording IndustriesAbstract:Results of laboratory tests are presented in which 18 subjects, including some low frequency noise sufferers, were presented with low frequency sounds with varying degrees of fluctuation. Thresholds of acceptability were obtained for each sound and each subject, using the method of adjustment. These thresholds were then normalised to individual low frequency hearing threshold. It was found that sufferers tend to set thresholds of acceptability closer to their hearing threshold than other subject groups. Also, acceptability thresholds were set on average 5dB lower for fluctuating sounds. It is proposed that a sound should be considered fluctuating when the difference between L10 and L90 exceeds 5dB, and when the rate of change of the 'Fast' response sound pressure level exceeds 10dB/s. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]Copyright of Noise & Vibration in Industry is the property of Multi-Science Publishing Co Ltd and its content may not be copied or emailed to multiple sites or posted to a listserv without the copyright holder's express written permission. However, users may print, download, or email articles for individual use. This abstract may be abridged. No warranty is given about the accuracy of the copy. Users should refer to the original published version of the material for the full abstract. (Copyright applies to all Abstracts.)ISSN:09508163Accession Number:31672637Persistent link to this record (Permalink): https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...e&db=edb&AN=31672637&site=eds-live&scope=siteCut and Paste:<A href="https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...e&db=edb&AN=31672637&site=eds-live&scope=site">The effect of fluctuations on the perception of low frequency sound.</A>Database:Complementary Index

Record: 3Title:Low-frequency interaural cross correlation discrimination in stereophonic reproduction of musical tones.Authors:Sungyoung Kim
Martens, William L.Source:Journal of the Acoustical Society of America; Apr2005, Vol. 117 Issue 4, p2392-2392, 1pPublication Year:2005Subject Terms:SOUND
MICROPHONES
PSYCHOACOUSTICS
AUDITORY perception
LOUDNESSNAICS/Industry Codes:NAICS/Industry Codes 334310 Audio and Video Equipment ManufacturingAbstract:By industry standard (ITU-R. Recommendation BS.775-1), multichannel stereophonic signals within the frequency range of up to 80 or 120 Hz may be mixed and delivered via a single driver (e.g., a subwoofer) without significant impairment of stereophonic sound quality. The assumption that stereophonic information within such low-frequency content is not significant was tested by measuring discrimination thresholds for changes in interaural cross-correlation (IACC) within spectral bands containing the lowest frequency components of low-pitch musical tones. Performances were recorded for three different musical instruments playing single notes ranging in fundamental frequency from 41 Hz to 110 Hz. The recordings, made using a multichannel microphone array composed of five DPA 4006 pressure microphones, were processed to produce a set of stimuli that varied in interaural cross-correlation (IACC) within a low-frequency band, but were otherwise identical in a higher-frequency band. This correlation processing was designed to have minimal effect upon other psychoacoustic variables such as loudness and timbre. The results show that changes in interaural cross correlation (IACC) within low-frequency bands of low-pitch musical tones are most easily discriminated when decorrelated signals are presented via subwoofers positioned at extreme lateral angles (far from the median plane). [Work supported by VRQ.] [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]Copyright of Journal of the Acoustical Society of America is the property of American Institute of Physics and its content may not be copied or emailed to multiple sites or posted to a listserv without the copyright holder's express written permission. However, users may print, download, or email articles for individual use. This abstract may be abridged. No warranty is given about the accuracy of the copy. Users should refer to the original published version of the material for the full abstract. (Copyright applies to all Abstracts.)ISSN:00014966DOI:10.1121/1.4785858Accession Number:20264083Persistent link to this record (Permalink): https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...e&db=edb&AN=20264083&site=eds-live&scope=siteCut and Paste:<A href="https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...e&db=edb&AN=20264083&site=eds-live&scope=site">Low-frequency interaural cross correlation discrimination in stereophonic reproduction of musical tones.</A>Database:Complementary Index

Record: 4Title:Auditory frequency perception adapts rapidly to the immediate past.Authors:Alais, David. School of Psychology, University of Sydney, Sydney, NSW, Australia, [email protected]
Orchard-Mills, Emily. School of Psychology, University of Sydney, Sydney, NSW, Australia
Van der Burg, Erik. School of Psychology, University of Sydney, Sydney, NSW, AustraliaAddress:Alais, David, School of Psychology, University of Sydney, Griffith Taylor Building A19, Sydney, NSW, Australia, 2006, [email protected]Source:Attention, Perception, & Psychophysics, Vol 77(3), Apr, 2015. pp. 896-906.NLM Title Abbreviation:Atten Percept PsychophysPage Count:11Publisher:Germany : SpringerOther Journal Titles:Perception & PsychophysicsOther Publishers:US : Psychonomic SocietyISSN:1943-3921 (Print)
1943-393X (Electronic)Language:EnglishKeywords:Adaptation and Aftereffects, Audition, HearingAbstract:Frequency modulation is critical to human speech. Evidence from psychophysics, neurophysiology, and neuroimaging suggests that there are neuronal populations tuned to this property of speech. Consistent with this, extended exposure to frequency change produces direction specific aftereffects in frequency change detection. We show that this aftereffect occurs extremely rapidly, requiring only a single trial of just 100-ms duration. We demonstrate this using a long, randomized series of frequency sweeps (both upward and downward, by varying amounts) and analyzing intertrial adaptation effects. We show the point of constant frequency is shifted systematically towards the previous trial’s sweep direction (i.e., a frequency sweep aftereffect). Furthermore, the perception of glide direction is also independently influenced by the glide presented two trials previously. The aftereffect is frequency tuned, as exposure to a frequency sweep from a set centered on 1,000 Hz does not influence a subsequent trial drawn from a set centered on 400 Hz. More generally, the rapidity of adaptation suggests the auditory system is constantly adapting and 'tuning' itself to the most recent environmental conditions. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2016 APA, all rights reserved)Document Type:Journal ArticleSubjects:*Auditory Perception; *Neuroimaging; *Pitch (Frequency); *Signal Detection (Perception)Medical Subject Headings (MeSH):Acoustic Stimulation; Adaptation, Physiological; Adult; Analysis of Variance; Auditory Perception; Female; Hearing; Humans; Male; Psychophysics; Reaction Time; Reference Values; Sound; Young AdultPsycInfo Classification:Auditory & Speech Perception (2326)Population:Human
Male
FemaleAge Group:Adulthood (18 yrs & older)
Young Adulthood (18-29 yrs)Grant Sponsorship:Sponsor: Australian Research Council, Australia
Grant Number: DP120101474
Other Details: Discovery Project
Recipients: Alais, David

Sponsor: Australian Research Council, Australia
Grant Number: DE130101663
Other Details: Discovery Early Career Research Award
Recipients: Van der Burg, ErikMethodology:Empirical Study; Quantitative StudyFormat Covered:ElectronicPublication Type:Journal; Peer Reviewed JournalPublication History:First Posted: Dec 19, 2014Release Date:20141222Correction Date:20150504Copyright:The Psychonomic Society, Inc.. 2014Digital Object Identifier: PMID:25522831Accession Number:2014-56623-001Number of Citations in Source:58Persistent link to this record (Permalink): https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...yh&AN=2014-56623-001&site=eds-live&scope=siteCut and Paste:<A href="https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...yh&AN=2014-56623-001&site=eds-live&scope=site">Auditory frequency perception adapts rapidly to the immediate past.</A>Database:APA PsycInfo

Record: 5Title:Change detection of auditory tonal patterns defined by absolute versus relative pitch information. A combined behavioural and EEG study.
Open Access
Authors:Coy, Nina. Institute of Psychology–Wilhelm Wundt, Leipzig University, Leipzig, Germany, [email protected]
Bader, Maria. Institute of Psychology–Wilhelm Wundt, Leipzig University, Leipzig, Germany
Schröger, Erich. Institute of Psychology–Wilhelm Wundt, Leipzig University, Leipzig, Germany
Grimm, Sabine. Institute of Psychology–Wilhelm Wundt, Leipzig University, Leipzig, GermanyAddress:Coy, Nina, [email protected]Source:PLoS ONE, Vol 16(2), Feb 25, 2021. ArtID: e0247495NLM Title Abbreviation:PLoS OnePublisher:US : Public Library of ScienceISSN:1932-6203 (Electronic)Language:EnglishKeywords:Change detection, auditory tonal patterns, absolute versus relative pitch information, EEG studyAbstract:The human auditory system often relies on relative pitch information to extract and identify auditory objects; such as when the same melody is played in different keys. The current study investigated the mental chronometry underlying the active discrimination of unfamiliar melodic six-tone patterns by measuring behavioural performance and event-related potentials (ERPs). In a roving standard paradigm, such patterns were either repeated identically within a stimulus train, carrying absolute frequency information about the pattern, or shifted in pitch (transposed) between repetitions, so only relative pitch information was available to extract the pattern identity. Results showed that participants were able to use relative pitch to detect when a new melodic pattern occurred. Though in the absence of absolute pitch sensitivity significantly decreased and behavioural reaction time to pattern changes increased. Mismatch-Negativity (MMN), an ERP indicator of auditory deviance detection, was elicited at approximately 206 ms after stimulus onset at frontocentral electrodes, even when only relative pitch was available to inform pattern discrimination. A P3a was elicited in both conditions, comparable in amplitude and latency. Increased latencies but no differences in amplitudes of N2b, and P3b suggest that processing at higher levels is affected when, in the absence of absolute pitch cues, relative pitch has to be extracted to inform pattern discrimination. Interestingly, the response delay of approximately 70 ms on the behavioural level, already fully manifests at the level of N2b. This is in accordance with recent findings on implicit auditory learning processes and suggests that in the absence of absolute pitch cues a slowing of target selection rather than a slowing of the auditory pattern change detection process causes the deterioration in behavioural performance. (PsycInfo Database Record (c) 2021 APA, all rights reserved)Document Type:Journal ArticleSubjects:*Auditory Displays; *Electroencephalography; *Evoked Potentials; *Pitch (Frequency); *Stimulus Change; Pitch Discrimination; Relativism; Pattern Recognition (Cognitive Process)PsycInfo Classification:Electrophysiology (2530)Population:Human
Male
FemaleLocation:GermanyAge Group:Adulthood (18 yrs & older)Grant Sponsorship:Sponsor: German Research Foundation, Germany
Grant Number: GR 3412/2-1
Recipients: No recipient indicatedMethodology:Empirical Study; Quantitative StudySupplemental Data:Experimental Materials InternetFormat Covered:ElectronicPublication Type:Journal; Peer Reviewed JournalPublication History:First Posted: Feb 25, 2021; Accepted: Feb 8, 2021; First Submitted: Aug 13, 2020Release Date:20210401Copyright:This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.. Coy et al.. 2021Digital Object Identifier: PMID:33630974Accession Number:2021-22703-001Persistent link to this record (Permalink): https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...yh&AN=2021-22703-001&site=eds-live&scope=siteCut and Paste:<A href="https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...yh&AN=2021-22703-001&site=eds-live&scope=site">Change detection of auditory tonal patterns defined by absolute versus relative pitch information. A combined behavioural and EEG study.</A>Database:APA PsycInfo

Record: 6Title:Detection of rate of change of auditory frequency.Authors:Pollack, Irwin. U. Michigan, Mental Health Research InstSource:Journal of Experimental Psychology, Vol 77(4), Aug, 1968. pp. 535-541.NLM Title Abbreviation:J Exp PsycholPage Count:7Publisher:US : American Psychological AssociationOther Journal Titles:Journal of Experimental Psychology: GeneralOther Publishers:US : Psychological Review CompanyISSN:0022-1015 (Print)Language:EnglishKeywords:THRESHOLDS FOR DETECTION OF DIRECTION & RATE OF FREQUENCY CHANGE, PURE TONESAbstract:DETERMINED THRESHOLDS FOR THE DETECTION OF THE DIRECTION AND THE RATE OF FREQUENCY CHANGE FOR PURE TONES FOR 22 MUSIC MAJORS. WITH CONSTANT INITIAL FREQUENCIES OF 125-1000 HZ. FOR DURATIONS OF .5-4 SEC., THE THRESHOLD FREQUENCY DIFFERENCE FOR DETECTION OF DIRECTION OF FREQUENCY CHANGE CLOSELY APPROACHED THAT OBTAINED IN A CONVENTIONAL FREQUENCY DISCRIMINATION TEST. THE THRESHOLD RATE OF FREQUENCY CHANGE WAS INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL TO THE DURATION OF THE FREQUENCY CHANGE. TESTS WITH A VARIABLE STARTING FREQUENCY SUGGEST THAT LISTENERS CAN RESPOND DIRECTLY TO FREQUENCY CHANGES OVER THE DURATION OF THE SWEPT FREQUENCY TONE. TESTS WITH A RELATIVELY 'PURE' MEASURE OF RATE OF FREQUENCY CHANGE SUGGEST THAT, AT EXTREMELY SHORT TRANSITION TIMES, SENSITIVITY TO CHANGE IN THE RATE OF TRANSITION IS NEARLY DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL TO THE FREQUENCY RANGE SUBTENDED; AT LONG TRANSITION TIMES, IT IS NEARLY INDEPENDENT. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2016 APA, all rights reserved)Document Type:Journal ArticleSubjects:*Audiometry; *Auditory Stimulation; *Signal Detection (Perception)Medical Subject Headings (MeSH):Auditory Perception; Auditory Threshold; Humans; Sound; Time FactorsPsycInfo Classification:Human Experimental Psychology (2300)Population:HumanFormat Covered:PrintPublication Type:Journal; Peer Reviewed JournalRelease Date:19680101Correction Date:20161229Copyright:American Psychological Association. 1968Digital Object Identifier: PMID:5672262Accession Number:1968-16521-001Number of Citations in Source:21Persistent link to this record (Permalink): https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...yh&AN=1968-16521-001&site=eds-live&scope=siteCut and Paste:<A href="https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...yh&AN=1968-16521-001&site=eds-live&scope=site">Detection of rate of change of auditory frequency.</A>Database:APA PsycInfo

Record: 7Title:Non-linear laws of echoic memory and auditory change detection in humans.
Open Access
Authors:Inui, Koji. Department of Integrative Physiology, National Institute for Physiological Sciences, Okazaki, Japan, [email protected]
Urakawa, Tomokazu. Department of Integrative Physiology, National Institute for Physiological Sciences, Okazaki, Japan
Yamashiro, Koya. Department of Integrative Physiology, National Institute for Physiological Sciences, Okazaki, Japan
Otsuru, Naofumi. Department of Integrative Physiology, National Institute for Physiological Sciences, Okazaki, Japan
Nishihara, Makoto. Multidisciplinary Pain Center, Aichi Medical University, Aichi, Japan
Takeshima, Yasuyuki. Department of Integrative Physiology, National Institute for Physiological Sciences, Okazaki, Japan
Keceli, Sumru. Department of Integrative Physiology, National Institute for Physiological Sciences, Okazaki, Japan
Kakigi, Ryusuke. Department of Integrative Physiology, National Institute for Physiological Sciences, Okazaki, JapanAddress:Inui, Koji, Department of Integrative Physiology, National Institute for Physiological Sciences, Myodaiji, Okazaki, Japan, 444-8585, [email protected]Source:BMC Neuroscience, Vol 11, Jul 3, 2010. ArtID: 80NLM Title Abbreviation:BMC NeurosciPublisher:United Kingdom : BioMed Central LimitedISSN:1471-2202 (Electronic)Language:EnglishKeywords:non-linear laws, echoic memory, auditory change detection, humans, memory system, event-related brain potentialsAbstract:Background: The detection of any abrupt change in the environment is important to survival. Since memory of preceding sensory conditions is necessary for detecting changes, such a change-detection system relates closely to the memory system. Here we used an auditory change-related N1 subcomponent (change-N1) of event-related brain potentials to investigate cortical mechanisms underlying change detection and echoic memory. Results: Change-N1 was elicited by a simple paradigm with two tones, a standard followed by a deviant, while subjects watched a silent movie. The amplitude of change-N1 elicited by a fixed sound pressure deviance (70 dB vs. 75 dB) was negatively correlated with the logarithm of the interval between the standard sound and deviant sound (1, 10, 100, or 1000 ms), while positively correlated with the logarithm of the duration of the standard sound (25, 100, 500, or 1000 ms). The amplitude of change-N1 elicited by a deviance in sound pressure, sound frequency, and sound location was correlated with the logarithm of the magnitude of physical differences between the standard and deviant sounds. Conclusions: The present findings suggest that temporal representation of echoic memory is non-linear and Weber-Fechner law holds for the automatic cortical response to sound changes within a suprathreshold range. Since the present results show that the behavior of echoic memory can be understood through change-N1, change-N1 would be a useful tool to investigate memory systems. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2016 APA, all rights reserved)Document Type:Journal ArticleSubjects:*Auditory Discrimination; *Auditory Evoked Potentials; *Evoked Potentials; *Laws; *MemoryPsycInfo Classification:Physiological Psychology & Neuroscience (2500)Population:Human
Male
FemaleAge Group:Adulthood (18 yrs & older)
Young Adulthood (18-29 yrs)
Thirties (30-39 yrs)
Middle Age (40-64 yrs)Methodology:Empirical Study; Quantitative StudyFormat Covered:ElectronicPublication Type:Journal; Peer Reviewed JournalPublication History:First Posted: Jul 3, 2010; Accepted: Jul 3, 2010; First Submitted: Dec 9, 2009Release Date:20101108Copyright:Inui et al; licensee BioMed Central Ltd.. 2010Digital Object Identifier: Accession Number:2010-18346-001Number of Citations in Source:70Persistent link to this record (Permalink): https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...yh&AN=2010-18346-001&site=eds-live&scope=siteCut and Paste:<A href="https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...yh&AN=2010-18346-001&site=eds-live&scope=site">Non-linear laws of echoic memory and auditory change detection in humans.</A>Database:APA PsycInfo

Record: 8Title:Mental ability and the discrimination of auditory frequency and duration change without focused attention: An analysis of mismatch negativity.Authors:Troche, Stefan J.. Department of Psychology, University of Bern, Bern, Switzerland, [email protected]
Houlihan, Michael E.. Department of Psychology, St. Thomas University, Fredericton, NB, Canada
Stelmack, Robert M.. School of Psychology, University of Ottawa, Ottawa, ON, Canada
Rammsayer, Thomas H.. Department of Psychology, University of Bern, Bern, SwitzerlandAddress:Troche, Stefan J., Department of Psychology, University of Bern, Muesmattstr. 45, CH-3000, Bern, Switzerland, 9, [email protected]Source:Personality and Individual Differences, Vol 49(3), Aug, 2010. pp. 228-233.NLM Title Abbreviation:Pers Individ DifPage Count:6Publisher:Netherlands : Elsevier ScienceISSN:0191-8869 (Print)
1873-3549 (Electronic)Language:EnglishKeywords:mental ability, auditory frequency, focused attention, mismatch negativity, event-related potentialAbstract:Mismatch negativity (MMN), an event-related potential measure that probes an early, pre-attentive stage of the discrimination process, was used to examine the relation between mental ability and the detection of change in auditory frequency and duration. MMN waveforms were derived from auditory sequences presented to 83 participants who were instructed to ignore the stimuli. Higher mental ability (HA) was associated with larger MMN amplitude to infrequent (deviant) change in auditory frequency. There was no effect of mental ability on MMN to change in auditory stimulus duration. Although HA was associated with better frequency and duration discrimination, there was no relation between the discrimination thresholds and MMN measures, an observation that challenges the efficacy of MMN amplitude as an index of discrimination ability. The MNN amplitude effect for auditory frequency change is indicative of greater facility in accessing sensory memory for HA than LA, and notably, this advantage is accomplished automatically, without focused attention. (PsycInfo Database Record (c) 2020 APA, all rights reserved)Document Type:Journal ArticleSubjects:*Attention; *Auditory Discrimination; *Cognitive Ability; *Evoked Potentials; *Mismatch Negativity; Focused AttentionPsycInfo Classification:Electrophysiology (2530)Population:Human
Male
FemaleAge Group:Adolescence (13-17 yrs)
Adulthood (18 yrs & older)
Young Adulthood (18-29 yrs)
Thirties (30-39 yrs)
Middle Age (40-64 yrs)Tests & Measures:Multidimensional Aptitude BatteryGrant Sponsorship:Sponsor: Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada, Canada
Recipients: Houlihan, Michael E.; Stelmack, Robert M.

Sponsor: German Academic Exchange Service (DAAD), Postdoc-Programme, Germany
Recipients: Troche, Stefan J.Methodology:Empirical Study; Quantitative StudyFormat Covered:ElectronicPublication Type:Journal; Peer Reviewed JournalPublication History:First Posted: Apr 18, 2010; Accepted: Mar 25, 2010; Revised: Mar 16, 2010; First Submitted: Jul 31, 2009Release Date:20100628Correction Date:20201102Copyright:All rights reserved.. Elsevier Ltd.. 2010Digital Object Identifier: Accession Number:2010-09948-014Number of Citations in Source:31Persistent link to this record (Permalink): https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...yh&AN=2010-09948-014&site=eds-live&scope=siteCut and Paste:<A href="https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...yh&AN=2010-09948-014&site=eds-live&scope=site">Mental ability and the discrimination of auditory frequency and duration change without focused attention: An analysis of mismatch negativity.</A>Database:APA PsycInfo

Record: 9Title:Variation in the Hearing Threshold in Women during the Menstrual CycleAuthors:Dayse da Silva Souza
Brunna Luckwu
Wagner Teobaldo Lopes de Andrade
Luciane Spinelli de Figueiredo Pessoa
João Agnaldo do Nascimento
Marine Raquel Diniz da RosaSource:International Archives of Otorhinolaryngology, Vol 21, Iss 04, Pp 323-328 (2017)Publisher Information:Thieme Revinter Publicações Ltda., 2017.Publication Year:2017Collection:LCC:Medicine
LCC:OtorhinolaryngologySubject Terms:hearing
menstrual cycle
hormones
Medicine
Otorhinolaryngology
RF1-547Description:Abstract Introduction The hormonal changes that occur during the menstrual cycle and their relationship with hearing problems have been studied. However, they have not been well explained. Objective The objective of our study is to investigate the variation in hearing thresholds in women during the menstrual cycle. Method We conducted a cohort and longitudinal study. It was composed of 30 volunteers, aged 18–39 years old, of which 20 were women during the phases of the menstrual cycle and 10 were men (control group) who underwent audiometry and impedance exams, to correlate the possible audiological changes in each phase of the menstrual cycle. Results There were significant changes in hearing thresholds observed during the menstrual cycle phases in the group of women who used hormonal contraceptives and the group who did not use such contraceptives. Improved hearing thresholds were observed in the late follicular phase in the group who did not use hormonal contraceptives and the hearing thresholds at high frequencies were better. Throughout the menstrual cycle phases, the mean variation was 3.6 db HL between weeks in the group who used hormonal contraceptives and 4.09 db HL in the group who did not use them. Conclusions The present study found that there may be a relationship between hearing changes and hormonal fluctuations during the menstrual cycle based on changes in the hearing thresholds of women. In addition, this study suggests that estrogen has an otoprotective effect on hearing, since the best hearing thresholds were found when estrogen was at its maximum peak.Document Type:articleFile Description:electronic resourceLanguage:EnglishISSN:1809-9777
1809-4864Relation:https://doaj.org/toc/1809-9777; https://doaj.org/toc/1809-4864DOI:10.1055/s-0037-1598601Access URL: Accession Number:edsdoj.46fafe26aa934673a4b1e502b15b18d0Persistent link to this record (Permalink): https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...4673a4b1e502b15b18d0&site=eds-live&scope=siteCut and Paste:<A href="https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...4673a4b1e502b15b18d0&site=eds-live&scope=site">Variation in the Hearing Threshold in Women during the Menstrual Cycle</A>Database:Directory of Open Access Journals

Record: 10Title:An Evaluation of Psychophysical Models of Auditory Change PerceptionAuthors:Micheyl, Christophe
Kaernbach, Christian
Demany, LaurentSource:PSYCHOLOGICAL REVIEW; OCT 2008, 115 4, p1069-p1083, 15p. Publisher Copyright:AMER PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCISSN:0033295XDOI:10.1037/a0013572Document Type:JournalAuthor Keywords:signal detection theory
threshold
discrimination
change perception
auditory perceptionLanguage:EnglishAccession Number:000260210400011Copyright:Copyright (c) Clarivate Analytics Web of SciencePublisher Logo:
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Record: 11Title:High Altitude Performance of Loudspeakers and Potential Impact on Audiometric Findings.Authors:Lucertini, Marco
Botti, Teresa
Sanjust, Filippo
Cerini, Luigi
Autore, Alberto
Lucertini, Lorenzo
Sisto, RenataSource:Aerospace Medicine & Human Performance; Jul2019, Vol. 90 Issue 7, p655-659, 5pPublication Year:2019Author-Supplied Keywords:acoustic stimulus
correction factor
hearing
hypobaric hypoxia
thresholdAbstract:BACKGROUND: The evaluation of how air rarefaction can affect a loudspeaker performance at altitude implies the need for characterization of earphones during hypobaric conditions. The aim of this study was phonometric analysis at different altitudes of the acoustic output of a widely used earphone model, along with its consequences on audiological investigations conducted under such environmental conditions. METHODS: The transfer function of a TDH-39P earphone was analyzed with an artificial ear under nine different altitude levels, from sea level up to 35,000 ft, inside a hypobaric chamber. A specific phonometric system not sensitive to environmental pressure changes was used. Other potentially confounding factors, such as environmental temperature and humidity, were continuously monitored. RESULTS: No relevant temperature or humidity changes were detected. The sound pressure level generated by the earphone under hypobaric conditions was found considerably affected by air density changes. These data produced a correction table aiming at recalibrating the earphone's output at each audiometric octave test frequency within the 250-8000 Hz range. Quite different characteristics of response were observed at different audiometric frequencies. Such findings were particularly evident for altitudes exceeding 12,000 ft. DISCUSSION: The development of a frequency-selective and altitude-related correction factor for acoustic stimuli is an essential aspect when hearing threshold measurements in hypobaric environments are performed. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]Copyright of Aerospace Medicine & Human Performance is the property of Aerospace Medical Association and its content may not be copied or emailed to multiple sites or posted to a listserv without the copyright holder's express written permission. However, users may print, download, or email articles for individual use. This abstract may be abridged. No warranty is given about the accuracy of the copy. Users should refer to the original published version of the material for the full abstract. (Copyright applies to all Abstracts.)ISSN:23756314DOI:10.3357/AMHP.5262.2019Accession Number:137317090Persistent link to this record (Permalink): https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...&db=edo&AN=137317090&site=eds-live&scope=siteCut and Paste:<A href="https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...&db=edo&AN=137317090&site=eds-live&scope=site">High Altitude Performance of Loudspeakers and Potential Impact on Audiometric Findings.</A>Database:Supplemental Index

Record: 12Title:Psychoacoustic frequency and spectral ripple discrimination in normal hearing subjects vs. cochlear implant recipients.Authors:Beynon, A. J.
Vestjens, J. P. A. M.Source:Journal of Hearing Science; 2022, Vol. 12 Issue 1, p112-112, 1pPublication Year:2022Subject Terms:HEARING
COCHLEAR implants
PSYCHOACOUSTICS
CONFERENCES & conventionsGeographic Terms:POLANDNAICS/Industry Codes:NAICS/Industry Codes 561920 Convention and Trade Show OrganizersAbstract:Behavioral studies show that frequency difference limens and spectral ripples discrimination might correlate with speech understanding. To what extent these stimuli can be applied in objective electrophysiological assessment in CI is not yet clear. For clinical application of using discriminative tasks in the latter (e.g. using auditory cortical evoked responses), research is needed to define reference data in normal hearing subjects, but also in CI recipients, who might have worse discriminative abilities. Ten normal hearing adults (control group) and ten adult MedEl CI recipients (experimental group) participated in this study. A single-interval paradigm was used to obtain individual psychometric curves of psychoacoustical frequency and spectral ripple discrimination thresholds. Besides these behavioral psychoacoustical thresholds. Stimuli consists of a reference frequency of 1000 Hz (1240 ms duration) tone with varying acoustic changes 0.2 to 10% FDL (Frequency Difference Limen: fbase+Δf), 620 ms after onset. For spectral ripples discrimination phase inversions were used with varying densities: 0.25 to 11.31 ripples per octave (RPO). Absolute auditory psychoacoustical and electrophysiological discrimination thresholds were analyzed and compared. Behavioral responses show discriminative thresholds for frequencies and ripples of 2.1% FDL and 1.2 RPO, respectively. As expected CI recipients show, compared to normal hearing subjects, worse discriminative capacities in frequency and spectral ripple discrimination i.e. psychoacoustical FDL's of 0.4% and a ripple discrimination of 13.8 RPO, respectively. Additionally, first preliminary electrophysiological application based on the present results of frequency and ripple discrimination tests are addressed. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]Copyright of Journal of Hearing Science is the property of Institute of Sensory Organs and its content may not be copied or emailed to multiple sites or posted to a listserv without the copyright holder's express written permission. However, users may print, download, or email articles for individual use. This abstract may be abridged. No warranty is given about the accuracy of the copy. Users should refer to the original published version of the material for the full abstract. (Copyright applies to all Abstracts.)ISSN:2083389XAccession Number:156437942Persistent link to this record (Permalink): https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...&db=edb&AN=156437942&site=eds-live&scope=siteCut and Paste:<A href="https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...&db=edb&AN=156437942&site=eds-live&scope=site">Psychoacoustic frequency and spectral ripple discrimination in normal hearing subjects vs. cochlear implant recipients.</A>Database:Complementary Index

Record: 13Title:Continuous versus discrete frequency changes: Different detection mechanisms?Authors:Demany, Laurent
Carlyon, Robert P.
Semal, CatherineSource:Journal of the Acoustical Society of America; Feb2009, Vol. 125 Issue 2, p1082-1090, 9pPublication Year:2009Subject Terms:AUDIO frequency
AUDITORY perception
ELECTRONIC modulation
ABSOLUTE pitch
AUDITORY pathwaysAbstract:Sek and Moore [J. Acoust. Soc. Am. 106, 351-359 (1999)] and Lyzenga et al. [J. Acoust. Soc. Am. 116, 491-501 (2004)] found that the just-noticeable frequency difference between two pure tones relatively close in time is smaller when these tones are smoothly connected by a frequency glide than when they are separated by a silent interval. This 'glide effect' was interpreted as evidence that frequency glides can be detected by a specific auditory mechanism, not involved in the detection of discrete, time-delayed frequency changes. Lyzenga et al. argued in addition that the glide-detection mechanism provides little information on the direction of frequency changes near their detection threshold. The first experiment reported here confirms the existence of the glide effect, but also shows that it disappears when the glide is not connected smoothly to the neighboring steady tones. A second experiment demonstrates that the direction of a 750 ms frequency glide can be perceptually identified as soon as the glide is detectable. These results, and some other observations, lead to a new interpretation of the glide effect, and to the conclusion that continuous frequency changes may be detected in the same manner as discrete frequency changes. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]Copyright of Journal of the Acoustical Society of America is the property of American Institute of Physics and its content may not be copied or emailed to multiple sites or posted to a listserv without the copyright holder's express written permission. However, users may print, download, or email articles for individual use. This abstract may be abridged. No warranty is given about the accuracy of the copy. Users should refer to the original published version of the material for the full abstract. (Copyright applies to all Abstracts.)ISSN:00014966DOI:10.1121/1.3050271Accession Number:76460934Persistent link to this record (Permalink): https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...e&db=edb&AN=76460934&site=eds-live&scope=siteCut and Paste:<A href="https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...e&db=edb&AN=76460934&site=eds-live&scope=site">Continuous versus discrete frequency changes: Different detection mechanisms?</A>Database:Complementary Index

Record: 14Title:Frequency-dependent changes in absolute hearing threshold caused by perception of a previous sound.Authors:Yoshida, Junji
Hasegawa, Hiroshi
Kasuga, MasaoSource:Journal of the Acoustical Society of America; Sep2007, Vol. 122 Issue 3, pEL62-EL68, 1p, 1 Chart, 4 GraphsPublication Year:2007Subject Terms:HEARING
SOUND
DECIBELS
AUDIO frequency
EAR
SENSESAbstract:This study investigated effects of a previous sound presentation at the absolute threshold of hearing. Changes in threshold were measured when a pure tone at 60 dB SPL preceded a test tone in the contra- or ipsilateral ear. When the previous and test sounds both had the same frequency of 500 Hz, threshold decreased approximately 2 dB in the contralateral ear, and increased slightly in the ipsilateral ear. On the other hand, when the frequency of the previous sound differed from that of the test sound, the threshold was decreased slightly in the ipsilateral ear. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]Copyright of Journal of the Acoustical Society of America is the property of American Institute of Physics and its content may not be copied or emailed to multiple sites or posted to a listserv without the copyright holder's express written permission. However, users may print, download, or email articles for individual use. This abstract may be abridged. No warranty is given about the accuracy of the copy. Users should refer to the original published version of the material for the full abstract. (Copyright applies to all Abstracts.)ISSN:00014966DOI:10.1121/1.2761896Accession Number:26977293Persistent link to this record (Permalink): https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...e&db=edb&AN=26977293&site=eds-live&scope=siteCut and Paste:<A href="https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...e&db=edb&AN=26977293&site=eds-live&scope=site">Frequency-dependent changes in absolute hearing threshold caused by perception of a previous sound.</A>Database:Complementary Index

Record: 15Title:Influence of rate of change of frequency on the overall pitch of frequency-modulated tones.Authors:Gockel, Hedwig. U Cambridge, Dept of Physiology, Cambridge, England
Moore, Brian C. J.
Carlyon, Robert P.Source:Journal of the Acoustical Society of America, Vol 109(2), Feb, 2001. pp. 701-712.NLM Title Abbreviation:J Acoust Soc AmPage Count:12Publisher:US : Acoustical Society of AmericanISSN:0001-4966 (Print)Language:EnglishKeywords:influence of rate of change of frequency on perception of overall pitch of frequency-modulated tones, 18–38 yr oldsAbstract:Used frequency-modulated tones with highly asymmetrical patterns of frequency modulation (FM) for the pitch of 2-tone complexes, keeping the amplitude constant during the stimulus presentation. The authors' working hypothesis was that stability-sensitive weighting would result in the pitch mechanism placing less weight on portions of the waveform where the instantaneous frequency was changing rapidly, resulting in a shift in the perceived pitch away from the value corresponding to the mean frequency. The authors tested this hypothesis in 3 experiments. Four Ss, ranging in age from 18–38 yrs, participated in all conditions in Exp 1. Results of Exp 1 show that the overall magnitude of the pitch shifts increased with increasing carrier frequency up to 2 kHz. In Exp 2, using 1 S from Exp 1 and 3 new Ss, the authors used a much lower sensation level of 20 dB SL. The pattern of results of Exp 2 shows that the progressive increase in pitch shift with increasing modulation rate found at 50 dB SPL was due to the influence of resolvable components in the spectrum. Exp 3 used 2 Ss from Exp 2, and the results at 4 kHz indicate that the pitch of a sinusoidal carrier frequency modulated with a highly asymmetric modulator does not correspond to the geometric or arithmetic mean frequency. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2016 APA, all rights reserved)Document Type:Journal ArticleSubjects:*Pitch (Frequency); *Pitch Perception; *Stimulus ChangeMedical Subject Headings (MeSH):Adolescent; Adult; Auditory Threshold; Cues; Humans; Models, Biological; Pitch PerceptionPsycInfo Classification:Auditory & Speech Perception (2326)Population:HumanAge Group:Adulthood (18 yrs & older)
Young Adulthood (18-29 yrs)
Thirties (30-39 yrs)Methodology:Empirical StudyFormat Covered:PrintPublication Type:Journal; Peer Reviewed JournalRelease Date:20010307Digital Object Identifier: PMID:11248974Accession Number:2001-14530-002Number of Citations in Source:51Persistent link to this record (Permalink): https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...yh&AN=2001-14530-002&site=eds-live&scope=siteCut and Paste:<A href="https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...yh&AN=2001-14530-002&site=eds-live&scope=site">Influence of rate of change of frequency on the overall pitch of frequency-modulated tones.</A>Database:APA PsycInfo

Record: 16Title:The detection of increments and decrements is not facilitated by abrupt onsets or offsets.Authors:Plack CJ; Department of Psychology, Lancaster University, Lancaster LA1 4YF, United Kingdom. [email protected]
Gallun FJ
Hafter ER
Raimond ASource:The Journal of the Acoustical Society of America [J Acoust Soc Am] 2006 Jun; Vol. 119 (6), pp. 3950-9.Publication Type:Journal ArticleLanguage:EnglishJournal Info:Publisher: American Institute of Physics Country of Publication: United States NLM ID: 7503051 Publication Model: Print Cited Medium: Print ISSN: 0001-4966 (Print) Linking ISSN: 00014966 NLM ISO Abbreviation: J Acoust Soc Am Subsets: MEDLINEImprint Name(s):Publication: Melville, NY : American Institute of Physics
Original Publication: Lancaster, Pa. [etc.] : American Institute of Physics for the Acoustical Society of AmericaMeSH Terms:Cues*
Psychoacoustics*
Auditory Threshold/*physiology
Loudness Perception/*physiology
Adolescent ; Adult ; Analysis of Variance ; Female ; Humans ; Male ; Models, Biological ; Multivariate Analysis ; Time FactorsAbstract:Two experiments measured thresholds for the detection of increments and decrements in the intensity of a quasi-continuous broadband-noise (experiment 1) or increments in a 477-Hz pure-tone pedestal (experiment 2). A variety of onset and offset ramps for the intensity change were tested, from instantaneous onsets or offsets to ramps lasting several tens of milliseconds. For increments and decrements with equal duration, the characteristics of the ramps had little effect on performance. Abrupt rise times, which are associated with strong transient responses in auditory neurons, did not facilitate detection in comparison to much slower rise times. The temporal window model of temporal resolution provided a good account of the data when the decision statistic was the maximum magnitude of the change in the output of the window produced by the increment or decrement, but provided a poor account of the data when the decision statistic was the maximum rate of change in the output of the window over time. Overall the results suggest that, in the absence of cues in the audio-frequency domain, rapid changes in envelope contribute little to near-threshold increment or decrement detection.Entry Date(s):Date Created: 20060715 Date Completed: 20080117 Latest Revision: 20190516Update Code:20220302DOI:10.1121/1.2198184PMID:16838538Persistent link to this record (Permalink): https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...db=cmedm&AN=16838538&site=eds-live&scope=siteCut and Paste:<A href="https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...db=cmedm&AN=16838538&site=eds-live&scope=site">The detection of increments and decrements is not facilitated by abrupt onsets or offsets.</A>Database:MEDLINE

Record: 17Title:Tones disappear faster in the right ear than in the left.Authors:Khalfa, S.. Hôpital Edouard Herriot, Lyon, France
Micheyl, C.
Pham, E.
Maison, S.
Veuillet, E.
Collet, L.Source:Perception & Psychophysics, Vol 62(3), Apr, 2000. pp. 647-655.NLM Title Abbreviation:Percept PsychophysPage Count:9Publisher:US : Psychonomic SocietyOther Journal Titles:Attention, Perception, & PsychophysicsOther Publishers:Germany : SpringerISSN:0031-5117 (Print)
1532-5962 (Electronic)Language:EnglishKeywords:characteristics & physiological correlates of tone decay in right vs left ear & effect of contralateral noise, normal-hearing 17–31 yr oldsAbstract:Administered a tone decay test to 58 normal-hearing, right-handed Ss (aged 17–31 yrs), successively in the left and right ears and in absence and presence of a contralateral noise. The results revealed that tone decay was greater in the right than in the left ear and was increased by contralateral noise. The contralateral effect of this noise on cochlear biomechanisms was then estimated by measuring contralaterally induced variations in the amplitude of click-evoked otoacoustic emissions in the same Ss. In the right ear, the increase in tone decay and the decrease in otoacoustic emission amplitude–both induced by contralateral noise–were positively correlated. Furthermore, the contralateral changes in otoacoustic emission amplitude were found to be on average larger in the right than in the left ear, this asymmetry being correlated with that observed for the tone decay. These findings are discussed in relation to previous results on simple and induced loudness adaptation in the vicinity of threshold, on contralateral attenuation of otoacoustic emissions, and on the influence of the auditory efferents on cochlear biomechanisms. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2016 APA, all rights reserved)Document Type:Journal ArticleSubjects:*Auditory Perception; *Auditory Thresholds; *Ear (Anatomy); *Noise Effects; *Physiological Correlates; Loudness Discrimination; Pitch (Frequency); Pitch Discrimination; Stimulus IntensityMedical Subject Headings (MeSH):Adolescent; Adult; Attention; Auditory Pathways; Cochlear Nerve; Dominance, Cerebral; Female; Humans; Male; Otoacoustic Emissions, Spontaneous; Pitch Perception; PsychoacousticsPsycInfo Classification:Auditory & Speech Perception (2326)Population:HumanAge Group:Adolescence (13-17 yrs)
Adulthood (18 yrs & older)
Young Adulthood (18-29 yrs)
Thirties (30-39 yrs)Methodology:Empirical StudyFormat Covered:PrintPublication Type:Journal; Peer Reviewed JournalRelease Date:20000607Correction Date:20110110Digital Object Identifier: PMID:10909255Accession Number:2000-07793-021Persistent link to this record (Permalink): https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...yh&AN=2000-07793-021&site=eds-live&scope=siteCut and Paste:<A href="https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...yh&AN=2000-07793-021&site=eds-live&scope=site">Tones disappear faster in the right ear than in the left.</A>Database:APA PsycInfo

Record: 18Title:Differential sensitivity to intensity as a function of the duration of the comparison tone.Authors:Garner, W. R.
Miller, G. A.Source:Journal of Experimental Psychology, Vol 34(6), Dec, 1944. pp. 450-463.NLM Title Abbreviation:J Exp PsycholPage Count:14Publisher:US : American Psychological AssociationOther Journal Titles:Journal of Experimental Psychology: GeneralOther Publishers:US : Psychological Review CompanyISSN:0022-1015 (Print)Language:EnglishKeywords:differential sensitivity, intensity, comparison tone duration, judgment, loudnessAbstract:In testing the relationship between the duration of the comparison tone and the intensity required to produce a judgment of one j.n.d. in loudness, three functions were obtained with each of two observers, each function having a different frequency and sensation level of loudness as constant parameters. A ratio as high as three was found between the highest and lowest ΔI ratio in any one function. The reciprocal of ΔI, used as a measure of the sensitivity of the organism to intensitive changes, suggested two hypotheses to explain the form of the sensitivity function, both of which are analyzed and rejected. Crozier's theory is likewise rejected, since the lower parts of the sensitivity curves do not approach zero asymptotically. Two possible explanations of the too rapid bending of the lower portions of the curves are: (1) mechanical and neural thresholds which would differentiate between short and long tones; and (2) tonal transients affected differentially by tone duration. Békésy's results are not confirmed. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2016 APA, all rights reserved)Document Type:Journal ArticleSubjects:*Auditory Perception; *Judgment; *Loudness; *Stimulus DurationPsycInfo Classification:Auditory & Speech Perception (2326)Population:HumanFormat Covered:PrintPublication Type:Journal; Peer Reviewed JournalRelease Date:19450401Copyright:American Psychological Association. 1944Digital Object Identifier: Accession Number:1945-00878-001Number of Citations in Source:13Persistent link to this record (Permalink): https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...yh&AN=1945-00878-001&site=eds-live&scope=siteCut and Paste:<A href="https://libproxy.unm.edu/login?url=...yh&AN=1945-00878-001&site=eds-live&scope=site">Differential sensitivity to intensity as a function of the duration of the comparison tone.</A>Database:APA PsycInfo
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Next time you post something this long, please consider using the “Spoiler” function. It will hide the wall of text and not take up so much space in the thread. People can still open and read when they want. Just a friendly suggestion please.
 

IPunchCholla

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Next time you post something this long, please consider using the “Spoiler” function. It will hide the wall of text and not take up so much space in the thread. People can still open and read when they want. Just a friendly suggestion please.
Will do. It was converting it into a wall of blurry text when I tried it. So I cut the citations. Thank you!
 

AdamG247

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Will do. It was converting it into a wall of blurry text when I tried it. So I cut the citations. Thank you!
You can still go back and fix it.
 

IPunchCholla

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You can still go back and fix it.
I tried. It kept on auto inserting additional spoiler tags that seemed to confuse the issue. Probably because of the formatting of my citations file. I’ll take a look at cleaning them up for easier readability later. I’m thinking of creating a thread that thinks through what it takes to create “good” sound from vinyl, given the known limitations of human hearing and will use those more parsimoniously there.
 

AdamG247

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I tried. It kept on auto inserting additional spoiler tags that seemed to confuse the issue. Probably because of the formatting of my citations file. I’ll take a look at cleaning them up for easier readability later. I’m thinking of creating a thread that thinks through what it takes to create “good” sound from vinyl, given the known limitations of human hearing and will use those more parsimoniously there.
Think of the spoiler tags as bookends. You put your intended text in between them. Like this.
 

IPunchCholla

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Think of the spoiler tags as bookends. You put your intended text in between them. Like this.
I did that. But it just made it into a giant wall of blurred text. Since wall of text was the issue, though I should just cut it for now. It also injected additional spoiler tag pairs even when I went back and deleted them. I’m assuming something in my text is confounding it. Could be because I’m on my phone.

Does the spoiler here only blur? I like the one on Ars Technica that collapses/expands.
 

Newman

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There was absolutely no character assassination in my post. This is the second time you’ve claimed I’m being somehow offensive. I don’t believe I am. If you are going to make that claim support it.

Well firstly, you were "playing the man and not the ball", and playing the man is invariably the same as criticising the person. Secondly, cruelty is a character reference. You can try to pretend the words are cruel and not their owner, but it won't wash. There is a clear cross reference.

The other time you say I criticised you for playing the man, I meant to say MMV not you, and I fixed it as soon as I saw your post, days ago. Typo.

cheers
 

IPunchCholla

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Well firstly, you were "playing the man and not the ball", and playing the man is invariably the same as criticising the person. Secondly, cruelty is a character reference. You can try to pretend the words are cruel and not their owner, but it won't wash. There is a clear cross reference.

The other time you say I criticised you for playing the man, I meant to say MMV not you, and I fixed it as soon as I saw your post, days ago. Typo.

cheers
Ahh. I was accusing him of being antagonistic and pointing out that it it might be counter-productive. The cruelty was meant as an example and a recall to "cruel to be kind" notions of truth, but I can see that it is ambiguous and your reading of that is legitimate. I disagree with me "playing the man and not the ball" as the man and the ball are the same in this example, I think, and I brought plenty of ball as to why the man's hyperbole, sheep posting, and all caps yelling is perhaps not the most effective way to make the point, particularly given our understandings of the limits of human perception. But I appreciate you pointing out the issue.
 

Old Listener

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They didn't know, they aren't getting a chance to compare.
Dealer used vinyl cause the sheep believe just what Mikey tells them.

All here have admitted digital is light years beyond analog for accurate SOTA HiFi.
So logic tells you there's something else at play here besides which actually supply's better sound.
I doubt that dealers can survive selling $ 100-500 DACs instead of multi-thousand dollar turntables and cartridges. They have gone up market and left behind those customers who are well informed and want value for their money.
 

Sal1950

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I doubt that dealers can survive selling $ 100-500 DACs instead of multi-thousand dollar turntables and cartridges. They have gone up market and left behind those customers who are well informed and want value for their money.
Very true. Too bad the consumers are left listening to very expensive gear and media that only offers 1960 levels of performance and a head full of BS propaganda. :facepalm:
 

rdenney

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Very true. Too bad the consumers are left listening to very expensive gear and media that only offers 1960 levels of performance and a head full of BS propaganda. :facepalm:
Well, maybe 1980 performance. But thank goodness educated users not subject to BS propaganda who nevertheless desire to listen to their old vinyl are not required to use boutique stuff built recently, when there is relatively inexpensive quality vintage stuff from when before it was a boutique item on the secondary market.

Rick "but yes it's more expensive than a Topping DAC" Denney
 

Timstunes

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Hi, all, well, It seems to me the TT world is very difficult to understand. It seems very wild world.

In 2019 I bought a "cheap" AT LP120X turntable (not really the same as AT LP120 but cheaper)
I bought it going against several people's advice (online and offline)
The general (strong) advice was "any new under $500 is total, aboslute crap, will sound horrible and will last a week or two.... For $300, or less, you can get a japanese/german/swiss/american made vintage tt that will be absolutely superior to any cheap chinese new tt and will last another 40 years..."

For some period of time I tried to get a japanese/german/swiss/american made vintage tt for $300 or less but it was very difficult and somewhat risky. I did not know what I was buying. So many variables and stuff not easy to understand. Lots of online sellers stated "in working condition". What does that mean? Yeah, my junk car I had when I was 18 years old was in working conditions... just not working properly. Plus, more stuff to buy... cartridge, stylus, mats, arms, covers, preamps, ball bearings, etc, etc.
So I got tired of hunting for vintage TT so I commited heresy and crime: bought a new "cheap" Chinese TT (Hanpin TT).
I did it knowingly such AT LP120X was labeled "absolute junk" (to say the least) in every single forum.

Now first of all, why is it that you need $500 to buy a decent TT when you can buy a DVD player for about $40??
And a $40 DVD player will play CDs that most likely will sound superior than a vinyl on a $500 TT?
I don't get why a mass produced TT is far more expensive compared to similar mass produced CD/DVD player.
Is it really far more difficult/expensive to build a TT than to build a DVD?
Do you need more mechanical precision?
I have heard DVD/CD technology requires very precise mechanical pieces.
Sorry to ask these questions, Im probably very ignorant.

TT technology is probably 100 years old so it is absolutely mature technology
Tons of money have been invested in TT technology research for about a century.
We live in very advanced industrial Capitalism which means mature technologies can only get cheaper, not more expensive.
Back in the 50s or 60s you had to pay premium for high fidelity.... Is it still true in 2021?
Now, I fully understand $500 are peanuts.
I fully understand that a true premium TT might truly cost more than my home and my car put together (including everything inside my home like my cheap TT)

My experience with AT LP120X after more than a year of almost daily use???

I have no reason to complain. Such is my experience.

I keep reading people telling that such is a junk TT that sounds horrible and disgusting and belongs to the trash can.

I will tell you what is junk sound to me: my laptop speakers; my logitech desktop speakers (though these Logitech speakers are a real improvement over my laptop speakers); my cellphone speaker; a boombox; a bluetooth speaker (big or small) and the like...... all that sounds bad to me but don't matter because such stuff are not really made for music listening.

My AT LP120X connected to entry level amp and entry level speakers does not sound like junk to me... My laptop certainly does...

I have personally listened to some Technics/Dual/Lenco (and others) TTs and yes boy they sound great but owners of these TTs buy very expensive carts and very expensive stylus and have them connected to multi thousand dollar preamps/amps then connected to multi thousand dollar speakers and dedicated rooms for music listening. So it is hard to tell if such great sound is due to TT or just partially/marginally due to it.

Now, about the love for vinyl.

I like vinyl, but I do not consider it to be worth investing thousands of dollars.

I have about 400 vinyl. About 350 are rock/pop and about 50 are classical music.

I never play classical on vinyl. It is my opinion that CD (digital music) is the best thing that happened to classical music. I have hundreds of classical music CDs and I think digital is the way to go for classical music.

About rock/pop sometimes I have some mixed feelings but I still consider digital the best format for all kind of music, specially for classical music.

I might be wrong but I truly consider digital is very elegant and superior technology for all kind of music.

I can certainly say I prefer some music/songs played on vinyl rather than on CD. But this is a personal preference. Not a scientific statement. I specially like Hendrix or Rory Gallagher on vinyl but not saying it sounds better than on CD. I just like it more, not saying that it sounds better.

I still buy inexpensive old used vinyl... Nostalgia is a powerful force indeed.

I guess most of my vinyl are in ok shape. Some are in very good shape. Some are in bad shape.

Im not exactly new to turntables or vinyl. Im just back at it.

I just did not know it was a very complicated world....

Back in the days I never gave much importance to it as I just bought turntables and vinyl records for the music and that was it...

Regards!!
Thanks for your well written commentary. I share your perspective. I’m 61 and consider myself a music lover not an audiophile. I have a modest system and vinyl and digital collections. I have dacs, I subscribe to AMHD, I enjoy Bluetooth. I cherish my vinyl experiences for many many reasons. Sonic superiority really isn’t one. It needn’t be complicated. Live and let live and enjoy the music.
 
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Godataloss

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Very true. Too bad the consumers are left listening to very expensive gear and media that only offers 1960 levels of performance and a head full of BS propaganda. :facepalm:
One could also argue that users of the various digital media are also subscribing to the propaganda of renting their music- continually paying for something that those of us that purchase records, buy once and then continue to enjoy for free- all the while accumulating collections that more often than not, continually increase in value. We also usually get license to the digital files in perpetuity. My record habit pays for itself, including the hardware necessary for playback. In fact, it's paid for my digital hardware too, lol. Seems foolish to denigrate an avenue that allows someone to monetize their beloved hobby. Did your wife cheat on you with an LP at some point?
 

mike70

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One could also argue that users of the various digital media are also subscribing to the propaganda of renting their music- continually paying for something that those of us that purchase records, buy once and then continue to enjoy for free- all the while accumulating collections that more often than not, continually increase in value. We also usually get license to the digital files in perpetuity. My record habit pays for itself, including the hardware necessary for playback. In fact, it's paid for my digital hardware too, lol. Seems foolish to denigrate an avenue that allows someone to monetize their beloved hobby. Did your wife cheat on you with an LP at some point?

don't forget the artist revenue ... we're killing good music with streaming
 

Angsty

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don't forget the artist revenue ... we're killing good music with streaming
Used CDs and LPs don't get artists revenue, either. Discogs sales works for collectors, but not so much for artists. I'd venture that at least half of my CD and LP collection was purchased as "pre-owned".
 

Angsty

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I doubt that dealers can survive selling $ 100-500 DACs instead of multi-thousand dollar turntables and cartridges. They have gone up market and left behind those customers who are well informed and want value for their money.
I'd argue that the vinyl revival was driven more by $100 Crosleys and $500 U-Turns than by Fremer and the 4-digit-plus turntable crowd. There is a tactile enjoyment of vinyl that goes beyond the sound quality issues compared to streaming digital.
 

IPunchCholla

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Used CDs and LPs don't get artists revenue, either. Discogs sales works for collectors, but not so much for artists. I'd venture that at least half of my CD and LP collection was purchased as "pre-owned".
Well, those used CDs and LPs were purchased new at some point, presumably. I’ve seen percentage of revenue going to artists from several sources, but for this question, we would need to see a breakdown from the artists’ point of view: proportion of income from various media.
 

Sal1950

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One could also argue that users of the various digital media are also subscribing to the propaganda of renting their music- continually paying for something that those of us that purchase records, buy once and then continue to enjoy for free- all the while accumulating collections that more often than not, continually increase in value. We also usually get license to the digital files in perpetuity. My record habit pays for itself, including the hardware necessary for playback. In fact, it's paid for my digital hardware too, lol. Seems foolish to denigrate an avenue that allows someone to monetize their beloved hobby. Did your wife cheat on you with an LP at some point?
I guess you're purposely ignoring the fact that streaming isn't the only source of digital music? :facepalm: LOL

In my 72 years on this earth, and since I've never been a wealthy person, I've always tried to get the best bang for my buck.
Sound quality is what matters to me most and I need to spend my modest income in a manner that delivers the best performance I can afford.
When it comes to expenditures towards my love of music, for my needs the LP belongs in a land fill along with the compact cassette, 8 track cartridge, shellac 78s, Edison cylinders, and 2 tin cans connected by a string.

If you enjoy collecting any of the above as a investment hobby that's great, have all the joy it brings you..
I'd rather listen to my favorite music in the best quality 2022 technology has to offer.
 
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