Recommendations for Reference-Quality Vinyl Cartridges?

[LTig]

I would make two suggestions:- [..]

The second suggestion is to use a good moving coil cartridge like the AT33 with a line-contact stylus.

Yep. In my subjective opinion the AT33PTG/II with Microline stylus (€ 540) sounds just as good as my previous Van den Hul MC ONE Special (€ 1700).

Whether MM or MC, I think the important part is to use a line contact stylus as that should provide the lowest distortion, and has the benefit that assuming old, and possibly worn LPs, the line contact should bridge the worn part and result in a lot lower noise.

This!

 

[Bland_username42069]

I think you will find that such groove damage is often caused by playing on cheap cartridges that tend to have conical or elliptical styli, and that a micro line archiving cartridge will trace a different part of the groove where it is less damaged.

Cheers why ideally it’s best to have three styli to see which one is least noisy.

That’s why, ideally it’s best to have three types of styli. Sometimes microline can make noise worse sometimes better.

Once you’re into world of private press, local town recordings, and small pressing plants things can deviate wildly from the norms.

Stampers too hot, glazed discs, dirt stamped into the disc, anything goes.

 

[DSJR]

Just my opinion but hopefully backed up by the few proper measurements carried out -

At the very top of the tree, Lyra based cartridges (they make for others I gather, such as Linn) in a decent rigid tonearm (no detachable headshells here) can sound incredibly good, 'real' and stable in the groove and in reproduced imagery. I was also impressed with the Dynavector 17D series which could be thought of as the also excellent AT OC9 range but on steroids, but at double the price (anyone who's heard them may understand the subjectivist opinion here).

For MC, I know Ortofon have a huge range as do AT, but some of them are definitely NOT that neutral and many tend to appeal to more 'analogue-loving' audiophiles. I cite the AT33PTG over say, a top OC9 model which arguably reproduces the vinyl as it probably really is with reduced bass wallop as it probably wasn't cut there in the first place...

I love the Ortofon 2M range and adore the 2M Bronze, as it's basically a lively but properly organised sound (the OM/Super OM models now have a stylus/suspension and outer housing colour all but identical now to the 2M models (is the 2M range basically external clothing on a Super OM body?). The 2M Black held the mantle of arguably the best overall MM type around, Ortofon now cashing on on an even more exalted version I sadly don't know.

I also love the AT range, but the internals of a VM95ML aren't as good as the VM540 was (which is still not an expensive cartridge, equating today in price to a Shure 75/95-ED). The new VMX 740 has reduced in price by fifty quid or so over its VM740 predecessor and this is one I'd love to try in the lively-toned Dual tonearms I have*. The VMX750 is now almost the same price as the old 740 was and offers a better Shibata tip which 'sounds' so much more subtle than the rather 'obvious-up-top' ML types they make.

* Does any oldie here remember the rather good AT20SLa cartridge from the late 70s? My Dual 701 loved this one at the time, so I have high hopes the 740 - 760VMx will go in it as well.

---

Sorry fellas, a Shure SC35C was a cheapish dullard intended for broadcast use (4g tracking, bonded conical tip and a downtilted response like the old M75-EJ which sounds horribly dull today). I know some UK forum peeps wet themselves over it, but the main forum-owning protaginist loved his bass trouser flapping welly and who cares about truth to life as cut in the grooves (I did borrow an original and later coveted brand new US made 35C some decades back and gave it back thankfully). My preferred broadcast workhorse which the BBC changed to, is the Ortofon OM Pro (mine's the silver bodied one) which is a bit crude at hf compared to the OM models with elliptical styli. I don't know the VM95 pro models which are also rather dearer to buy than the domestic range.

Grado's better priced models went all dull over an F1+ I retain here and as for nagaoka, they used to be bargain basement but they bloody-well aren't these days, the £200 or so MP200 not faring as well as the Ortofons and ATs above. The dearer Nagaokas used to be massy yet high compliance (not a good pairing) but they may have been sorted by now.

I love my solid mounted Decca Gold Microscanner, which on a good day can be one of the most truthful-sounding pickups about, despite reduced separation of around 20dB or so. They're so tetchy and unreliable sadly, but when they work, they can be breathtaking. Modern Lyras are so darned close though if the deck and tonearm is good enough (the hierarchy model still applies to vinyl if not so much digital these days)/

Loads of others I've not even touched on (ZYX is one, but Sumiko have priced themselves far too high as most Dynavectors seem to have done)

GET A PROPER RECORD CLEANING MACHINE as well!!!

 

[lini]

(...) I had AT33PTG/II before which was great, but I broke it. I bought a AT-VM95ML to tide me over, but in the end I kept it because for the money it's just too good. (...)

That's why I suggested exactly that model above. Especially as the OP mentioned a somewhat limited budget in his initial post - and also, provided I've understood him correctly, that he'd intend to use a pair of Reloop RP-6000s for the purpose, so that I'd assume, that he'd also need two cartridges. And another plus in my view would the comparatively broad range of available original needle variants for the AT-VM95 family, also including the three needles for the AT-XP3, -XP5 & -XP7 DJ models.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Newman]

Affordability is a consideration, as my pockets only go so deep.

What does this really mean, in dollars? It might save us time in formulating replies.

 

[Robin L]

If you're transferring old, worn records, the "best" cartridge might not work out the best. I used to have a Shure M44-7 cartridge tracking at something like 3 grams when I made transfers of other people's records. It was designed as a DJ cartridge and had the virtue of sticking to some otherwise unplayable grooves. The description of your records sounds a lot like many projects I've recorded. If you've got funky old records, something like the Shure M44-7 would probably be the most useful. Unfortunately, that cartridge is no longer being manufactured. I'd look for a different DJ cartridge, something that track above 2 grams, more like 3, and has a conical stylus. Ortofon's OM Pro S ticks off all those boxes. Ortofon's Concorde MKII DJ is similar, costs more.

 

[Watire]

If you're transferring old, worn records, the "best" cartridge might not work out the best. I used to have a Shure M44-7 cartridge tracking at something like 3 grams when I made transfers of other people's records. It was designed as a DJ cartridge and had the virtue of sticking to some otherwise unplayable grooves. The description of your records sounds a lot like many projects I've recorded. If you've got funky old records, something like the Shure M44-7 would probably be the most useful. Unfortunately, that cartridge is no longer being manufactured. I'd look for a different DJ cartridge, something that track above 2 grams, more like 3, and has a conical stylus. Ortofon's OM Pro S ticks off all those boxes. Ortofon's Concorde MKII DJ is similar, costs more.

Jico does produce a M44-7 clone that must be a good fit in the same context. How about the classic Ortofon VML ?
The VM95 body brings the most versatibility with its multiple stylus. The DJ XP serie provides 3 more stylus proposition compatible with the VM95, which makes a total of 9 genuine stylus choices from Audio Technica.

 

[Laika2]

Just my opinion but hopefully backed up by the few proper measurements carried out -
I love the Ortofon 2M range and adore the 2M Bronze, as it's basically a lively but properly organised sound (the OM/Super OM models now have a stylus/suspension and outer housing colour all but identical now to the 2M models (is the 2M range basically external clothing on a Super OM body?). The 2M Black held the mantle of arguably the best overall MM type around, Ortofon now cashing on on an even more exalted version I sadly don't know.

Agreed. Love the Bronze after the big cartridge hunt. So much I bought the black (and threw the bronze in the living room rig) . Jumped to the Black LVB 250 a year latter. Now running the LVB 250s on both tables. The Bronze is the sweet spot. The jump up to the Black then the black 250 LVB is noticeable, mostly tighter bass which really makes drums sound natural and dynamic. For the price the Bronze captures most of what make the two blacks great. It's overall very close to the blacks and has very dynamic tight bass like its parents. I still throw the Bronze in now and then and it's very close to the blacks to my ears.

 

[BenWatts]

Does the gap between the Bronze & Black would be wider depending on a phono stage?

 

[Heinrich]

GET A PROPER RECORD CLEANING MACHINE as well!!!

I second that. In regard to micro line and similar, a miticulous adjustment of vertical tracking angle might be needed. Of course the horizontal tracking error is to be minimized also. In the end the accuracy in mounting the cartridge maybe more dicisive than some particular stylus shape. The purchase of a test record as to verify the effort might be in order. It could, if of any value, allow for equalizing the actual response to target. Target is a straight line, but elder records may be tuned too match another target than the contemporary (see also the recently introduced spinorama for speakers aka 'circle of confusion'). Tune to taste, I would say. But that needs - as you may have guessed, modern standardized speakers in a controlled environment.

 

[DSJR]

I second that. In regard to micro line and similar, a miticulous adjustment of vertical tracking angle might be needed. Of course the horizontal tracking error is to be minimized also. In the end the accuracy in mounting the cartridge maybe more dicisive than some particular stylus shape. The purchase of a test record as to verify the effort might be in order. It could, if of any value, allow for equalizing the actual response to target. Target is a straight line, but elder records may be tuned too match another target than the contemporary (see also the recently introduced spinorama for speakers aka 'circle of confusion'). Tune to taste, I would say. But that needs - as you may have guessed, modern standardized speakers in a controlled environment.

My tonearm lacks VTA adjustment and the little gauge supplied with the carriers originally, offers the inner null point at 58mm or so from disc-centre (baerwald to Stevenson - excuse spelling - is equivalent to around 2mm fore-aft movement of the cartridge in the headshell slots). Inaudible to me, so I use the gauge supplied and forget about it. Usual cartridge has a line or similar contact tip (ADC ZLM has an 'Aliptic' profile, whatever that was) and in my situation, surface noise effects are lower with these styli than a stock elliptical.

To kind of confirm my cautious vibes on the 2M Blue, read the Ortofon blurb on it - Oh look, it's pictutured in an SL1500C as well as a Project model

2M Blue

The goal for any cartridge should be to reproduce the sound as close to the artist's vision as possible, and the 2M blue takes you further on this journey of authenticity. With the 2M Blue, you get serious about listening to vinyl.

ortofon.com

Also the slimmer models for VTA-conscious Rega owners -

2MR

Ortofon is a micro-mechanical powerhouse, which develops, manufactures and markets the world acclaimed Ortofon phono cartridges.

ortofon.com

 

[raindance]

A stylus that minimizes IGD is a must if you're after "reference quality". Microline or similar.

 

[Heinrich]

A stylus that minimizes IGD is a must if you're after "reference quality". Microline or similar.

A single try is in order: this board carries a library of measurements on vinyl pickups. The distortion figures, when compared to digital which is a hilarious attempt, go through the roof anyway, independent of the stylus shape. 10% @10kHz is a common reading. The distortion advantage of ML needles appears as like 2% max even in inner grooves. It seems that the cantilever is a better predictor of sound quality in this regard. A quite pedestrian aluminium type can deliver all the goods, if made with care and knowledge; e/g Shure V15.

How do you explain the relative independence of HD readings from stylus shape?

 

[sqrl]

Hi - good luck with your project. If a lot of your records are mono, you might cut down unwanted noise by using a mono cartridge

 

[EJ3]

But Shure doesn't make cartridges anymore.

That does not mean that they are made of "unobtanium". I have a number of both NOS & used SHURE carts that I have obtained since 2018. Some of them never brought out of their packaging yet. V15 type IV's, V, & the T4P V15 V equivalents, as well as new SHURE styluses & JICO styluses. And a yet to be used GRADO P-Mount GOLD3
But: buyer beware, there are some not so scrupulous folks out there selling things!

Audio Technica seems to have a good reputation at reasonable prices.


I don't know but you can tweak it with tone controls & EQ. Back in the analog days I was always upgrading or wanting to upgrade, although I knew the real problems was the records, because there were a few "good sounding" records.

The capacitance of the load (the wiring in the turntable, the wiring to the preamp, and the preamp's input) also affect frequency response. There is an optimum, Lower isn't necessarily better and we usually don't know how what they all add-up to. And the preamp may have 'imperfect RIAA EQ.

So... I just recommend equalizing by-ear, and different records may need different adjustments.


There are some "hard to track" records, but again the biggest problem is usually the records.


Of course if you are going to "scratch" or crossfade "live" you'll need a mixer. If you just want to crossfade between songs, Audacity (or any audio editor) can do that after recording.

For digitizing, you'll need computer with a regular soundcard and a line input (usually color coded blue). If you have a laptop with only mic-in and headphone-out, you'll need a USB audio interface with line-in. The Behringer USA202 is popular and inexpensive and they make a similar UFO202 which has a switchable line/phono input. I have an ART USB phono plus (about $100 USD) which has switchable line/phono inputs and it has a recording level knob, which can be handy. Or there are lots of higher-end audio interfaces with switchable mic/line inputs. Or there are some mixers with USB ports

I agree with you. But, IF you want SHURE, they can be found. But they are not cheap.

 

[Heinrich]

Hi - good luck with your project. If a lot of your records are mono, you might cut down unwanted noise by using a mono cartridge

Really, how?

I'm observing the frequency spectrum of 80s/90s pop / art rock records currently. All are cut off at about 50Hz, and show a lot less bass than more modern (digital) sources. Or conversely, the mids and curiously the treble too are way more pronounced. Still I equalize my Grado Green @65Hz -1dB/Q=0.7, @5kHz +2dB/Q=1, plus a high shelf +1..2dB from 100Hz on Q=0.1 to feel some 'impact'. Maybe the intermodulation distortion's mud.

For seriously digitizing cultural heritage such aspects may be of interest. The needle's shape, well, ...

 

[sqrl]

Insensitivity to vertical modulations

 

[Heinrich]

Insensitivity to vertical modulations

Oh, I was talking of my Henry Kaiser records. Fred Frith, Derek Bailey and not the least Hans Reichel. Digitizing that stuff would need more than just a reference pickup, me feels Better to keep my collection of plastic disks operational instead, but that's my private stance ...

 

[DVDdoug]

Hi - good luck with your project. If a lot of your records are mono, you might cut down unwanted noise by using a mono cartridge

Really, how?

Theoretically... The signal is correlated (the same in both channels) and sums to +6dB. The noise uncorrelated (random) and sums +3dB (on average). So in mono, the signal-to-noise ratio is improved by 3dB.

BUT there can be advantages to recording in stereo - Sometimes one channel is better than the other so you can choose the best one. Or I have Wave Repair (an application for cleaning-up digitized records) and one of it's repair modes is to copy from one channel to the other. Often there is a click in one channel, or the click is slightly offset in-time in the left & right channels. It usually works well with stereo records and and you don't notice the loss of stereo for a few milliseconds. It would work "perfectly" with mono.

And, you get the same theoretical 3dB improvement if you mix the left & right to mono after recording/digitizing.

 

[Heinrich]

And, you get the same theoretical 3dB improvement if you mix the left & right to mono after recording/digitizing.

May I dare? We're talking musical heritage. It's not the stylus geometry ;-)