Topping PA7 Plus Amplifier Review

[Blink Too Fast]

Okay. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you know what you are doing. But I'll say I am doubtful.

Since this discussion is off topic for this official product review thread, this is my last post on this subject in this thread. If you wish to continue this discussion, please start a new thread.

I'm using the Flex Eight with a mix of PA7 and Fosi V3.
Still on topic.

 

[MAB]

Sure, I have a Flex Eight being used as 2x6, with the two spare channels correcting some vintage Sansui SF-2 omnis.
Amped with a mix of PA7 and Fosi V3.
Measurements below, though correcting a mix of Morrison Audio 29 and 42, not R3s.

The ability of the MiniDSP to correct many speakers and their rooms is amazing.
Red is corrected.
Blue, orange, green are before correction.

I think the HT & HTx are not yet released, but I may be wrong. I'm waiting for an HT to replace my AVR (with 3 Fosi V3 amps)


View attachment 328944

OK. I understand now.
I was just confused by your earlier post regarding active amplification since the R3 is a three-way:

That is typically what I (and many other people) do.
A MiniDSP 2x4, FLEX, DDRC, or similar, plus affordable amps that suddenly have a smaller job to do.

Yes, the Flex Eight makes sense. The 2x4 or Flex Balanced not so much. The DDRC not at all.

The Flex HT is certainly released. The HTx is pre-launch.

 

[Blink Too Fast]

Yes, the Flex Eight makes sense. The 2x4 or Flex Balanced not so much. The DDRC not at all.

The DDRC-22 is not suitable for bi-amping.

The DDRC-24 is a 2x4 HD bundled with Dirac and a mic. Great choice for someone bi-amping and not comfortable using REW and RePhase. As you say, not for tri-amping.

The DDRC-88 is suitable for tri-amping and is functionally similar to a Flex Eight with Dirac and all digital outs. Kind of. Would need 3x stereo DACs, so quickly becomes unattractive.
With the 88BM option, the 88 becomes similar to a digital-only Flex HTx. Kind of.
I wouldn't choose the 88 over the Eight, the HT, or the HTx.

The Flex HT is certainly released. The HTx is pre-launch.

Interesting. Thanks. Arrival day must be getting closer!
The HT shows as available direct from MiniDSP.com on my phone, but on my PC it still shows as pre-order.
Neither the HT nor HTx are listed at the US distributor (Deer Creek Audio).

Anyway, back on topic, if arrival day is closer, I need to finalize my buying choices for more PA7, more Fosi V3, and/or some PA5.

The short version is whether to get 5x more Fosi v3 (the 48v is currently $87 direct), or a mix of V3, PA7, and PA5.

This is ASR, and there's a measurable difference between these amps. It is less clear whether that measurable difference is audible to me in my environment.

When I use a PA7 for tweeters, there is zero hiss, even with my ear pressed on the drivers.
When I use a V3 for tweeters, I can hear hiss 3-4" / 7-10cm away. Not a real world difference.
I think I cannot discriminate between them in AxB back-to-back listening tests at my usual ~8' / ~2.5m from the speakers.
BUT...
When the V3 is on the tweeters, my hearing becomes fatigued after an hour or so.
When the PA7 is on the tweeters, my hearing does not become fatigued.

I have time this weekend to make distortion measurements with REW with each amp on each driver, and based on those data to experiment with crossover settings, then based on those experiments to order amps.

 

[Blink Too Fast]

I have time this weekend to make distortion measurements with REW with each amp on each driver, and based on those data to experiment with crossover settings, then based on those experiments to order amps.

The PA7 is below my noise floor.
The V3 is (mostly) below my noise floor.
Don't know if this is my technique, or a limitation of the UMIK-1 mic. Or a combination of both.

Anyway, ordered 5 more Fosi V3 48v at $87.

 

[Freighter]

Does this amplifier have common protection mechanisms like overcurrent / short protection, over voltage protection and overheat protection? I can’t really find any information about it.

Just in case anyone was interested, I asked Topping customer support about this, and the answer is: yes.

 

[Videoteque73]

So Topping PA5 II and PA7 are safe to buy?

 

[jcheavymetal]

So Topping PA5 II and PA7 are safe to buy?

I heard no issues about them until now like what happened to PA5 I and LA90D. I went for the PA7, waiting it to be delivered.

 

[Lsi]

Hi all
I get today the shipment pa7 plus, how can I know for sure it's pa7 pluse and not pa7?

 

[staticV3]

Hi all
I get today the shipment pa7 plus, how can I know for sure it's pa7 pluse and not pa7?

 

[Ykar]

+ the power supply should be 52V (vs 48V for the non plus), as I remember

 

[Lsi]

Little review
Conected as power to gustard x16 and bluesound 2i, speakers ls 50 meta.
The sound is very good also big soundstage and great details. Lacking little bass. To my opinion sound much better than yamha as701 and denon pma nd900 I have before.
Sorry for my bad English

 

[mike70]

Little review
Conected as power to gustard x16 and bluesound 2i, speakers ls 50 meta.
The sound is very good also big soundstage and great details. Lacking little bass. To my opinion sound much better than yamha as701 and denon pma nd900 I have before.
Sorry for my bad English

thanks for sharing ... ls50 doesn't have bass, unless you set them on a little room.
if other amplifier have "more bass" in the same room position, surely you was listening to bass distortion and now the speakers sound cleaner (and leaner, the real bass they can have).
For "real" bass, LS50 goes with subwoofer from (at least) 60hz crossover (depending on crossover order).
My experience.

So ... surely V3 isn't lacking bass ... maybe now you have clean undistorted sound, that's other stuff.

 

[Lsi]

It's better to conect XLR from gustard to topping
(short distance) or rca?

 

[Blink Too Fast]

It's better to conect XLR from gustard to topping
(short distance) or rca?

My experience from a miniDSP is...
...it makes no difference.

XLR will get you more volume, but pfft, just turn up the volume for the RCA and it's the same.

No hiss from either approach.

 

[Iluzun]

I’ve just hooked up a second PA-7 Plus, 1st in a horizontal biamp config, then today in a vertical config, to a pr. of Musician Knight 1’s. I purchased a second amp after remembering how a fella with Falcon Acoustics, who was previously w/ProAc, had highly recommended biamping the 1SC, of which I own. The single PA-7 was put to use with the Knight 1’s, a really well built 2way, cause that’s what’s in rotation. Very nice on its own, I was a bit startled by the improvement in the horizontal config. Damn, quite a bit more, there there. Increased vocal clarity, density and ummmppphhh as I listened to Dope Lemons newly released Miami all the way thru. I certainly wasn’t missing those little gold bar jumpers between the binding post. Stacked PA-7s seem just fine. Tiny stack that is. One silver, one black, cause that’s what they had and I got each for about $460. Today after knuckle heading around ‘cause I’m using two different speaker wires, I went ahead with a vertical e config. Amos Lee’s Chet Baker songbook is sounding dead quiet, focused and sublime. Very nice ease and flow, effortless. The Musician speakers are just eating up the additional pow. Not a 5-10% improvement, more like 20-25%. The Knight 1s are a beautifully voiced pair of speakers, tonally dense but airy beasties. Feed em well. The little ProAcs are sitting aside for now, waiting for me to remove their silver jumper wires, but that’ll wait. I was a bit hesitant purchasing a second PA-7 Plus almost on a lark, but it really is the way to go if your speakers are designed for such. Oh, both are being fed by the new SMSL PL-200 cd players outputs. Between the PA-7 dip switches and the SMSL menus I’m still sorting things thru, but this config is making a major case for biamping as the way to go. Highly recommended…

 

[Repdetect]

I expected higher SINAD than ‘just 102dB‘. Makes it even more difficult to recommend over the NC252 which is 100€ less expensive

Almost $600 to US.

 

[mike70]

I’ve just hooked up a second PA-7 Plus, 1st in a horizontal biamp config, then today in a vertical config, to a pr. of Musician Knight 1’s. I purchased a second amp after remembering how a fella with Falcon Acoustics, who was previously w/ProAc, had highly recommended biamping the 1SC, of which I own. The single PA-7 was put to use with the Knight 1’s, a really well built 2way, cause that’s what’s in rotation. Very nice on its own, I was a bit startled by the improvement in the horizontal config. Damn, quite a bit more, there there. Increased vocal clarity, density and ummmppphhh as I listened to Dope Lemons newly released Miami all the way thru. I certainly wasn’t missing those little gold bar jumpers between the binding post. Stacked PA-7s seem just fine. Tiny stack that is. One silver, one black, cause that’s what they had and I got each for about $460. Today after knuckle heading around ‘cause I’m using two different speaker wires, I went ahead with a vertical e config. Amos Lee’s Chet Baker songbook is sounding dead quiet, focused and sublime. Very nice ease and flow, effortless. The Musician speakers are just eating up the additional pow. Not a 5-10% improvement, more like 20-25%. The Knight 1s are a beautifully voiced pair of speakers, tonally dense but airy beasties. Feed em well. The little ProAcs are sitting aside for now, waiting for me to remove their silver jumper wires, but that’ll wait. I was a bit hesitant purchasing a second PA-7 Plus almost on a lark, but it really is the way to go if your speakers are designed for such. Oh, both are being fed by the new SMSL PL-200 cd players outputs. Between the PA-7 dip switches and the SMSL menus I’m still sorting things thru, but this config is making a major case for biamping as the way to go. Highly recommended…

but you need a preamp with 4 channels, right?

 

[armaster]

I got a Toppig pa7 (not a plus version) today. Sometimes when switching on, the relay click two or three times before turn on (link to video below). Has anyone had similar issues? Is something wrong with my PA7 and should be replaced?

I've had a topping pa5 II (not a plus version) for a while now, but I haven't noticed this there yet.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/x19w...3547.mp4?rlkey=l9ejlok7j9du392ow1ophqiy9&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/p9a7...4724.mp4?rlkey=auo1kt2czex5iza2mdoikiz79&dl=0

 

[mike70]

excuse me if someone gets upset ... but, after PA5 1 fiasco and that ocassional "glitches" in new PA5 / PA7 ... people continue buying these amplifiers?
hypex solutions with really higher reliability are a few dollars more, i can't understand it

 

[Blink Too Fast]

I’ve just hooked up a second PA-7 Plus, 1st in a horizontal biamp config, then today in a vertical config, to a pr. of Musician Knight 1’s. I purchased a second amp after remembering how a fella with Falcon Acoustics, who was previously w/ProAc, had highly recommended biamping the 1SC, of which I own. The single PA-7 was put to use with the Knight 1’s, a really well built 2way, cause that’s what’s in rotation. Very nice on its own, I was a bit startled by the improvement in the horizontal config. Damn, quite a bit more, there there. Increased vocal clarity, density and ummmppphhh as I listened to Dope Lemons newly released Miami all the way thru. I certainly wasn’t missing those little gold bar jumpers between the binding post. Stacked PA-7s seem just fine. Tiny stack that is. One silver, one black, cause that’s what they had and I got each for about $460. Today after knuckle heading around ‘cause I’m using two different speaker wires, I went ahead with a vertical e config. Amos Lee’s Chet Baker songbook is sounding dead quiet, focused and sublime. Very nice ease and flow, effortless. The Musician speakers are just eating up the additional pow. Not a 5-10% improvement, more like 20-25%. The Knight 1s are a beautifully voiced pair of speakers, tonally dense but airy beasties. Feed em well. The little ProAcs are sitting aside for now, waiting for me to remove their silver jumper wires, but that’ll wait. I was a bit hesitant purchasing a second PA-7 Plus almost on a lark, but it really is the way to go if your speakers are designed for such. Oh, both are being fed by the new SMSL PL-200 cd players outputs. Between the PA-7 dip switches and the SMSL menus I’m still sorting things thru, but this config is making a major case for biamping as the way to go. Highly recommended…

Biamping with the crossovers after the power amps (they are still present inside the speakers) does little.
With the gold bars present and a single PA7, the tweeters see half of one channel of the PA7, and the woofers see the other half.
With the gold bars removed and two PA7s, the tweeters see half of one channel a PA7 and the bass frequencies are turned to heat, and the woofers see half of one channel of the other PA7, and the treble frequencies are turned to heat.
Both amps are still producing the entire tonal range, including cross talk, and half of it is being turned to heat inside the speakers.
Horizontal or vertical makes no difference.

It would be more useful to leave the gold bars in place and use more powerful amps, for example by using the PA7s in bridged mode, and use one for the left and one for the right. Before rushing to do that, I have not seen that the PA7s are bridgeable.

Where bi-amping becomes truly useful is to remove the gold bars and to put crossovers before the amps. Crossovers before the power amps can be as simple as passive capacitor/inductor/resistor circuits; can be an active circuit; or can be a DSP such as a miniDSP.
By doing this, you can avoid the bass amp wasting effort on the treble frequencies, and can avoid the treble amp wasting effort on the bass frequencies.

The purist would also insist on disconnecting the crossovers inside the speakers. You may wish to leave a capacitor in series with the tweeter for protection.
Using e.g. a miniDSP, you can then connect the speaker drivers directly to the power amp, and use e.g. REW software to dial in a perfectly flat (or any other shape) speaker response to eliminate room modes or resonances. This would also eliminate any wasted power in the crossovers after the power amp.

The cheapest route for this might be a miniDSP 2x4 HD, a UMIK-1 mic, and the free REW software.
A more automated solution is the miniDSP DDRC-24, which is the 2x4 HD upgraded with internal Dirac software, plus an included UMIK-1.

A "nicer" route might be the miniDSP Flex, UMIK-1, and REW
The miniDSP Flex can also be upgraded with Dirac software.