Topping E70 Stereo DAC Review

[Deleted member 4708]

Mine arrived yesterday, superb all round.
Everything from the packaging to the design, display, feature set, value for money and obviously the sound.
Sounds better than my other 121dB SINAD DAC.
Though if you look closely at the IMD and Multitone plots you can see where the improvements are likely to be and this proved correct.
With many thanks to @amirm

E70 > Pre 90 > Benchmark AHB2 > fully tricked out Quad 989ESL's.

@JohnYang1997 - congratulations and many thanks, all I need now is a new case and matching display for my Pre 90

To paraphrase John McEnroe: "You cannot be serious!". This is the wrong site for golden ear audiophile claims.

 

[eyecent]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Iwp4hhrM1GvptI9PpsgWnCy6yguFDcb6/view

1.04 Firmware.

Fixed otp error

 

[misterdog]

To paraphrase John McEnroe: "You cannot be serious!". This is the wrong site for golden ear audiophile claims.

So the measured data shows a difference but you think that no one could hear that difference in sound.

Good luck with the tennis.

 

[misterdog]

Fixed otp error

What is an OTP error ?

Thanks for the heads up on the new firmware.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Though if you look closely at the IMD and Multitone plots you can see where the improvements are likely to be and this proved correct.

Proved? What is proved?

Anyway, glad you like your E70.

This is the wrong site for golden ear audiophile claims.

Or even worse, "objectivists" that would point to data, specifically to differences at 120dB bellow the fondamental and call these "audible":

So the measured data shows a difference but you think that no one could hear that difference in sound.

 

[staticV3]

What is an OTP error ?

Over Temperature Protection

 

[antcollinet]

So the measured data shows a difference but you think that no one could hear that difference in sound.

Good luck with the tennis.

You need to be looking here:

Audibility thresholds of amp and DAC measurements

Introduction A recurring theme on ASR is whether or not the various measured qualities of the devices are audible. In this post, I'll present some clear and visual thresholds for when those imperfections can be considered a potentially audible concern. I will not explain the basics of amp/DAC...

www.audiosciencereview.com

But to summarise - IMD needs to be higher than -70dB to be audible - the differences between those devices is way below that.

 

[Killingbeans]

So the measured data shows a difference but you think that no one could hear that difference in sound.

All measurable differences are audible?

A good audio analyzer can detect differences equating the sound of an ant farting on the opposite side of the planet.

At some point it's practically all about good engineering, and has very little to do with audible differences.

 

[Grobbelboy]

I’m looking for a DAC with XLR output to couple with my A90D. There is the accompanying D90 of course, but is there any great benefit in picking that over this E70?

 

[misterdog]

At some point it's practically all about good engineering, and has very little to do with audible differences.

I enjoy both good engineering and the audible differences that produces.

I spent a great deal of time rebuilding my Quad 989 electrostatic loudspeakers into bespoke steel frames in order to hear the last drop of difference. The downside being that they are the size of a door and will literally kill you if you touch them - 3kV kil ovolts.

But there is no difference, and I can't hear it - that's numberwang..

 

[Killingbeans]

What do you believe the limitations of human hearing are? Do you believe your own hearing to be significantly more acute than the average?

Why not test it?: https://www.klippel.de/listeningtest/

 

[misterdog]

Do you believe your own hearing to be significantly more acute than the average?

The opposite actually, at 63 years of age my hearing of upper frequencies will be severely rolled off.

I believe in neither magic beans or magic numbers, but if the numbers look good I'm prepared to taste the beans.
I may like or prefer the taste of those beans to other beans which I have tried.

Here endeth the philosophical debate.

 

[Killingbeans]

I don't think the audibility of artifacts at -120dB has anything to do with philosophy.

I agree that placebo can be just as enjoyable as the real deal, but I still don't think it's harmless to present it as a physical phenomena.

 

[sq225917]

I currently have one in the house against my Gustard A18. I can only match volume within 0.5db but the short review is.

Sounds great, can't hear any difference between dacs. Love the display, hate that you have to switch the dac off and on again to enter the setup menu and swap from pre to fixed output, that's bollox UI design. And I'd trade the triggers for AES input.

But hell for £300....

 

[chillwig]

Long time lurker, here. Recently registered when I pulled the trigger (no pun intended) on a new E70 based on feature set (and of course the review/measured performance). It's my first "ChiFi" purchase so I'm reasonably skeptical about the long term value proposition in terms of reliability. But at this price point, I'm OK with it potentially ending up a disposable just to get this feature set - you'd be hard pressed to find another well-implemented ESS Pro converter with "professional" features like balanced XLR outs and a 12v trigger i/o at this price. Bought it direct from Apos (digression for whoever named that company -- when I first saw the name my childish brain immediately joked that maybe it was an acronym for "another piece of s...") and hoping for satisfaction.

My plan is to set the unit to DAC-mode and connect via XLR to a Parasound HINT6 (driving Dynaudio Contour 30 and feeding a Sub 6). I assume that the E70's default 4V output will be sufficient for the HINT6, because my Cambridge DACMagic200M is spec'd at 4.2V on the XLR outs and sounds terrific feeding the HINT6 (to me). (If you're curious why I'm pulling the DACMagic, it's bc my primary desktop headphone amp/dac and I only pulled it into temporary service on my 2.1 rig because the results sounded so much better than the HINT6's internal DAC. But I want my headphone amp back on my desk and I'm not ready to do the upgrade that I think I really want, which is an all in one network streamer preamp like the Mytek Brooklyn).

Question for the Group: any thoughts on whether I should (or why I would want to) try switching the E70 output to 5V? Main reason I'm asking is that a lot of my source material is uncompressed and often a lower average RMS (but higher DR) than commercially released music, so I suspect the voltage boost might help me make the most of my DR without audibly affecting noise or distortion. The HINT6 manual (PDF Link) provides these specs:

Would appreciate any comments. TIA, I appreciate it.

 

[antcollinet]

Long time lurker, here. Recently registered when I pulled the trigger (no pun intended) on a new E70 based on feature set (and of course the review/measured performance). It's my first "ChiFi" purchase so I'm reasonably skeptical about the long term value proposition in terms of reliability. But at this price point, I'm OK with it potentially ending up a disposable just to get this feature set - you'd be hard pressed to find another well-implemented ESS Pro converter with "professional" features like balanced XLR outs and a 12v trigger i/o at this price. Bought it direct from Apos (digression for whoever named that company -- when I first saw the name my childish brain immediately joked that maybe it was an acronym for "another piece of s...") and hoping for satisfaction.

My plan is to set the unit to DAC-mode and connect via XLR to a Parasound HINT6 (driving Dynaudio Contour 30 and feeding a Sub 6). I assume that the E70's default 4V output will be sufficient for the HINT6, because my Cambridge DACMagic200M is spec'd at 4.2V on the XLR outs and sounds terrific feeding the HINT6 (to me). (If you're curious why I'm pulling the DACMagic, it's bc my primary desktop headphone amp/dac and I only pulled it into temporary service on my 2.1 rig because the results sounded so much better than the HINT6's internal DAC. But I want my headphone amp back on my desk and I'm not ready to do the upgrade that I think I really want, which is an all in one network streamer preamp like the Mytek Brooklyn).

Question for the Group: any thoughts on whether I should (or why I would want to) try switching the E70 output to 5V? Main reason I'm asking is that a lot of my source material is uncompressed and often a lower average RMS (but higher DR) than commercially released music, so I suspect the voltage boost might help me make the most of my DR without audibly affecting noise or distortion. The HINT6 manual (PDF Link) provides these specs:
View attachment 248368

Would appreciate any comments. TIA, I appreciate it.

You've got 10db gain in the preamp, and 28 in the power stage - for a total gain of 38dB.

No way do you need 5V output from the E70. In fact you can drive the amp to full power with less than 400mV input.

 

[misterdog]

Just received this reply from Topping regarding the 1.04 firmware update, strangely still absent from their website.

E70 V1.04:
Add bandwidth setting in setup menu (B-5)
Customized settings from 5 to 15 (default: 5)
The larger the number is, the stronger the range to adapt to jitter, and the smaller the number, the better the performance against clock jitter.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Iwp4hhrM1GvptI9PpsgWnCy6yguFDcb6/view

 

[misterdog]

No way do you need 5V output from the E70

Unless the increased voltage provides benefits to your system.

Assuming that the 5V output provides better measures. All Amirs tests are shown at 4V, though the THD+N v output level, shows increasing performance with rising output up to 4.25V.

Topping's measures use A weighting.

Only by trying it can you tell. Some seem to view output on XLR other than 4V, as some form of heresy and 'cheating', though why on an objective forum, better measured performance is 'criticised' I know not.

Many used to criticise the use of XLR at all - but that's audio for a hobby..

 

[Sokel]

If I was ever using a DAC straight to my power amp (never-ever!) 5 volts would be what it needs for full output (my particular amp).
So I guess is handy.

 

[misterdog]

The Benchmark Dac3 has output voltage of 12V..
You can always attenuate a higher V out, though adding gain with active pre-amps and power amps which normally have much higher levels of THD + N seems counter productive to me.

Though some, seem to like distortion and maybe see it as a good thing.