Topping E70 Stereo DAC Review

[Trell]

Unless the increased voltage provides benefits to your system.

Of course, that is always the case.

Assuming that the 5V output provides better measures. All Amirs tests are shown at 4V, though the THD+N v output level, shows increasing performance with rising output up to 4.25V.

This is false as @amirm do tests above 4V. Here is one example of one device and there are others, but that you can search for yourself:

RME ADI-2 FS Version 2 DAC and Headphone Amp Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the updated version 2 of the RME ADI-2 FS DAC and headphone amplifier. It was kindly sent to me by the company. The cost us US $1,149. The ADI-2 looks very nice in black with a bright, super responsive display (doesn't come out as well in the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Only by trying it can you tell. Some seem to view output on XLR other than 4V, as some form of heresy and 'cheating', though why on an objective forum, better measured performance is 'criticised' I know not.

I can't recall reading posts where "output on XLR other than 4V, as some form of heresy and 'cheating'". Do you have some examples?

Many used to criticise the use of XLR at all - but that's audio for a hobby..

They did? In what context?

 

[staticV3]

I can't recall reading posts where "output on XLR other than 4V, as some form of heresy and 'cheating'". Do you have some examples?

A bit over 5V is where the APx555B has the least distortion and noise:

Many chinese Hifi brands like Topping, Gustard, SMSL, etc. have recognized that and have set their high end DACs to 5V output at 100% volume so that they can advertise even higher SINAD numbers.

The 4V mode is just a digital volume limiter on top to retain compatibility with 4V expecting gear downstream.

Of course, the DAC does perform best at 5V, every DAC has peak SNR at 100% volume.

But the reason all these brands have chosen 5.0-5.2Vrms instead of 5.5, 6, or any other value is not entirely pure. They're playing the SINAD game.

 

[antcollinet]

Unless the increased voltage provides benefits to your system.

Assuming that the 5V output provides better measures. All Amirs tests are shown at 4V, though the THD+N v output level, shows increasing performance with rising output up to 4.25V.

Topping's measures use A weighting.

Only by trying it can you tell. Some seem to view output on XLR other than 4V, as some form of heresy and 'cheating', though why on an objective forum, better measured performance is 'criticised' I know not.

Many used to criticise the use of XLR at all - but that's audio for a hobby..

i was replying to a question concerning a particular amp. With that amp and it‘s gain, full power will be reached at less than half a volt. So even with 4v output the volume control is going to need to be set at -20 db for full power. Probably -40 to -60 for a reasonable listening volume. There is a risk of running into channel imbalance down there?

 

[chillwig]

Thanks, this discussion is starting to get helpful. As noted Amir tested the E70 at the 4v setting (which measured at 4.2v):

Topping's published specs are at 5V with slightly better numbers:

Obviously not a controlled comparison, but it's not an unexpected result from a well-implemented DAC is it not?

I guess what I really want to know (and should have asked up front) is, assuming for the sake of argument the E70 measures better at 5vrms, is there any reason NOT to try it and see if I get better subjective results with some of my quieter source material? As best as I can tell, theres no reason to think Parasound HINT6 preamp section can't handle the additional voltage.

 

[Trell]

A bit over 5V is where the APx555B has the least distortion and noise:
View attachment 248560
Many chinese Hifi brands like Topping, Gustard, SMSL, etc. have recognized that and have set their high end DACs to 5V output at 100% volume so that they can advertise even higher SINAD numbers.

The 4V mode is just a digital volume limiter on top to retain compatibility with 4V expecting gear downstream.

Of course, the DAC does perform best at 5V, every DAC has peak SNR at 100% volume.

But the reason all these brands have chosen ~5.1-5.2Vrms instead of 5.5, 6, or any other value is not entirely pure. They're playing the SINAD game.

Ah, I see, and I'm sorry to see they appear to do that. The performance is great in any case, but things like this does damage their credibility in my view, and totally unnecessary as well.

Perhaps they should look at RME how this is done....

 

[misterdog]

This is false as @amirm do tests above 4V. Here is one example of one device and there are others, but that you can search for yourself:

My other DAC was both tested at 4V and 5.2V (Maxout).

Though this thread (Topping E70) was only tested at 4V so more true than false.

But you could see that for yourself, Toppings own tests were performed at 5V though with A weighting.

 

[misterdog]

I can't recall reading posts where "output on XLR other than 4V, as some form of heresy and 'cheating'". Do you have some examples?

The post 12 minutes after yours is a good example #429.

Seems it is time for a new Audio Precision analyser. For the Chinese to cheat at SINAD numberwang with.

It's a shame that @staticV3 couldn't balance his post by saying what incredible value for money Chinese audio is providing us with.
Maybe that's the reason he needs to find a source of criticism and conspiracy theory though.

 

[Killingbeans]

I guess what I really want to know (and should have asked up front) is, assuming for the sake of argument the E70 measures better at 5vrms, is there any reason NOT to try it and see if I get better subjective results with some of my quieter source material?

The SINAD is still limited by noise. If you aren't getting hiss from the speakers at 4V, 5V isn't going to make a difference.

 

[Trell]

The post 12 minutes after yours is a good example #429.

You might have noticed that I replied to that post about 44 minutes before this post of yours.

Seems it is time for a new Audio Precision analyser. For the Chinese to cheat at SINAD numberwang with.

It's a shame that @staticV3 couldn't balance his post by saying what incredible value for money Chinese audio is providing us with.
Maybe that's the reason he needs to find a source of criticism and conspiracy theory though.

What are you talking about?

 

[misterdog]

hate that you have to switch the dac off and on again to enter the setup menu and swap from pre to fixed output, that's bollox UI design

Those who have blown tweeters, or worse, with inadvertent switching to full output might see it as a safety feature.

No I haven't - yet - touch wood.

 

[staticV3]

It's a shame that @staticV3 couldn't balance his post by saying what incredible value for money Chinese audio is providing us with.
Maybe that's the reason he needs to find a source of criticism and conspiracy theory though.

Lol!

 

[Laserjock]

It’s hard to discern when there isn’t a standard voltage.
Need to update rankings to be accurate.

 

[sq225917]

The 5.2v max out on xxlris gaming the system, but then any dac output level that you then have to attenuate in the pre-amp could be accused of the same.

Truth is there are relatively few power amps with sufficiently low gain to make use of max output from most of the best performing dacs. ( ncores, benchmark, some recent Chinese offerings)

My own nuerochrome amps use Tom's lowest gain option, but even then I'd need my dac to be at -30db to achieve my usual listening level without a pre amp to burn off those volts ️

 

[Adaboy4z]

Currently on Apos $296 shipped. Received an email this am.

 

[chillwig]

Currently on Apos $296 shipped. Received an email this am.

for certified though right?

 

[Adaboy4z]

for certified though right?

yes

 

[Sokel]

It's a shame that @staticV3 couldn't balance his post by saying what incredible value for money Chinese audio is providing us with.

I sometimes wonder reading some friends here have 3-4-5 DAC;s and HPA's,some more than that.The total of these doesn't seem like VFM to me,the opposite.
VFM is a device able to meet your needs,rely on it for years and is trouble free with rock solid performance at a reasonable price.
Constant upgrading to get 2db inaudible SINAD blows VMF away and makes the devices disposable as their second hand value drops like a rock.

 

[antcollinet]

I sometimes wonder reading some friends here have 3-4-5 DAC;s and HPA's,some more than that.The total of these doesn't seem like VFM to me,the opposite.
VFM is a device able to meet your needs,rely on it for years and is trouble free with rock solid performance at a reasonable price.
Constant upgrading to get 2db inaudible SINAD blows VMF away and makes the devices disposable as their second hand value drops like a rock.

Agreed - buy (and pay for) the features you need in a DAC - and then forget about it.

For the price of several cheap dacs you could get something well built that will be equally audibly perfect, but you'll have confidence in it lasting a lifetime.

 

[Trell]

Agreed - buy (and pay for) the features you need in a DAC - and then forget about it.

For the price of several cheap dacs you could get something well built that will be equally audibly perfect, but you'll have confidence in it lasting a lifetime.

Every where I look there is a DAC, including my remotes.

Not really, but at least an ADC.

 

[Matias]

E70 Velvet announced on their Facebook, I suppose it uses top AKM DAC chip.