Topping E70 Stereo DAC Review

[morillon]

The listening tests with lossy codecs are also performed encoding an already lossy signal. At least AAC has been demonstrated to be transparent in most cases with some repeated encoding.

aac 128? 192? 256 or 320? (vbr?)
what kind of music?
;-)

 

[poxymoron]

Its the combined LDAC/bluetooth and mp3 thats really bad. Each of those techniques uses the ears masking effect, but If you use them together, the faults will be much worse than twice as bad .

Example :

-1 -1 = -3

There is no need at all at year 2022 to use lossy codecs and lossy transmission. For casual listening on toy-speakers in the kitchen it might be ok, but not more than that. Noone should use streaming services thats lossy.

Well there is need, for me at least. I use the car's SBC bluetooth for short journeys in the car, to and from the train station etc., and forgo the EQ. But on longer journeys I use the USB DAC with some EQ, but I loose the convenience of controlling the music from the steering wheel. So I'll get a FiiO BTR7 to replace the Helm Bolt and then I can use LDAC with some PEQ, hopefully without distortion. LDAC with PEQ works well for my headphones with no distortion.

Edit:
There is no need at all at year 2022 to use lossy codecs and lossy transmission.
I would perhaps say the opposite, there may be no need for anything other than a phone with LDAC and a well implemented LDAC DAC to achieve what we want. (I will go on to contradict myself though).
Apart from listening to my headphones in bed, I really only ever listen to music at home when I can listen critically. That is, I sit in the sweet spot, in a quiet house with no children around and nothing else to do and enjoy a few hours on uninterupted music. When I can do that I either use USB from laptop or LDAC from phone through my miniDSP Flex, and LDAC works just fine. I don't doubt that measurably the USB might be better but audibly, I don't think so. Having said all of that I do plan on adding a streamer for convenience (the contradiction), but I'm not expecting a night and day change in the auido quality. I suspect that most LDAC doubters have not really tested it to confirm the claims that they are making. And if you say that you have then I'll ask you if you have done controlled blind tests.

 

[Tangband]

Well there is need, for me at least. I use the car's SBC bluetooth for short journeys in the car, to and from the train station etc., and forgo the EQ. But on longer journeys I use the USB DAC with some EQ, but I loose the convenience of controlling the music from the steering wheel. So I'll get a FiiO BTR7 to replace the Helm Bolt and then I can use LDAC with some PEQ, hopefully without distortion. LDAC with PEQ works well for my headphones with no distortion.

Edit:
There is no need at all at year 2022 to use lossy codecs and lossy transmission.
I would perhaps say the opposite, there may be no need for anything other than a phone with LDAC and a well implemented LDAC DAC to achieve what we want. (I will go on to contradict myself though).
Apart from listening to my headphones in bed, I really only ever listen to music at home when I can listen critically. That is, I sit in the sweet spot, in a quiet house with no children around and nothing else to do and enjoy a few hours on uninterupted music. When I can do that I either use USB from laptop or LDAC from phone through my miniDSP Flex, and LDAC works just fine. I don't doubt that measurably the USB might be better but audibly, I don't think so. Having said all of that I do plan on adding a streamer for convenience (the contradiction), but I'm not expecting a night and day change in the auido quality. I suspect that most LDAC doubters have not really tested it to confirm the claims that they are making. And if you say that you have then I'll ask you if you have done controlled blind tests.

I understand - I use from time to time bluetooth with Apple lossless material when walking outside with my Sony 1000xm3, knowing that the sound at home is much better . Its like listening to background music in the kitchen when using bluetooth. Not hifi and not something that makes you fall in love with Eva Cassidys voice, or tapping your foot.

You need to listen to a really good streamer to understand how good music can be at home ( If you havent done it yet ) .
The first step before buying an expensive streamer is to swap spotify and instead use Apple Music, TIDAL or Qobus.

Now, back to Topping e70.

 

[MaxBuck]

Its the combined LDAC/bluetooth and mp3 thats really bad. Each of those techniques uses the ears masking effect, but If you use them together, the faults will be much worse than twice as bad .

Example :

-1 -1 = -3

There is no need at all at year 2022 to use lossy codecs and lossy transmission. For casual listening on toy-speakers in the kitchen it might be ok, but not more than that. Noone should use streaming services thats lossy.

It would be interesting to see an ABX test relative to trained listeners' ability to distinguish the difference between BT and hardwired signal through a superb device such as this.

 

[poxymoron]

I understand - I use from time to time bluetooth with Apple lossless material when walking outside with my Sony 1000xm3, knowing that the sound at home is much better . Its like listening to background music in the kitchen when using bluetooth. Not hifi and not something that makes you fall in love with Eva Cassidys voice, or tapping your foot.

You need to listen to a really good streamer to understand how good music can be at home ( If you havent done it yet ) .
The first step before buying an expensive streamer is to swap spotify and instead use Apple Music, TIDAL or Qobus.

Now, back to Topping e70.

Of course, we are well off topic, but one more thing if I may. I only listen to music on Tidal HiFi and I doubt very much that any streamer will improve the quality from what I'm currently getting over USB straight from my laptop.

 

[Taschenrechner]

Hope the A70 review is coming too

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

What about 5v out?
Any graphs?

edit.
found that one if anyone is interested:

 

[aHaidc]

getting tired of the new dac's and spec's. I love to listen to my music instead of reading charts and measurements........how 'bout you?.
It's nice to have a top of the charts dac. But in the end the only thing that counts is the end result , meaning : how does it sound?.

have a nice day

I agree. What the point of releasing the new DAC(s), Pre(s) and Amp(s) of Topping and some similar brands at this price point if there are only slight (or no) improvement. I'm sure they would sound the same for the science-phile guys here. The only thing is improved (or increased) would be the price. The budget brands have followed the route of the 'hi-end' brands.

 

[mctron]

I agree. What the point of releasing the new DAC(s), Pre(s) and Amp(s) of Topping and some similar brands at this price point if there are only slight (or no) improvement. I'm sure they would sound the same for the science-phile guys here. The only thing is improved (or increased) would be the price. The budget brands have followed the route of the 'hi-end' brands.

They are trying to make money after all. People are addicted to upgrading gadgets. Sometimes they need to put out new or slightly different products due to chip changes or upgrades. Adding one feature or two requires a new model (they've added 12v triggers recently for instance). Always useful to delineate different price tiers of product even if the performance is largely the same. And really, there's not any reason to NOT keep pumping out new models. And so on

 

[Trell]

And really, there's not any reason to NOT keep pumping out new models.

There are downsides to pump out new models all the time. One is that there is a bewildering number of products that is very similar and quickly obsoleted.

 

[beefkabob]

New features seems to be the thing.

 

[DualTriode]

New features seems to be the thing.

"New features"

I would like to see a parametric equalizer added to the bluetooth and DAC.

Thanks DT

 

[MaxBuck]

There are downsides to pump out new models all the time. One is that there is a bewildering number of products that is very similar and quickly obsoleted.

I don't think any earlier Topping products have been "obsoleted" by the introduction of this one.

 

[Trell]

I don't think any earlier Topping products have been "obsoleted" by the introduction of this one.

Obsoleted in the sense of losing support from the manufacturer as well as resale value for the users.

 

[Labjr]

Obsoleted in the sense of losing support from the manufacturer as well as resale value for the users.

Compared to the usual audiphile brands, Topping is disposable. And cost way less than you would lose by reselling a typical audiphile branded DAC.

 

[Trell]

Compared to the usual audiphile brands, Topping is disposable. And cost way less than you would lose by reselling a typical audiphile branded DAC.

My guess is that Topping customers are not buying those “audiophile” brands in the first place, but for those with a big disposable income it is “disposable”.

 

[Labjr]

My guess is that Topping customers are not buying those “audiophile” brands in the first place, but for those with a big disposable income it is “disposable”.

I've spent more than $10,000 for a stereo system in the past. I wouldn't now that Chinese brands provide pretty good value. Digital source components at any price have terrible resale value.

How many Topping buyers buy new cell phones all the time? Seems a lot of ASR members buy new equipment all the time and some have 2 or more systems.

 

[Kane1972]

These are $350 in US, £399 in UK. That seems a bit unfair.

 

[krappo]

And $619.00 in Australia

 

[Kane1972]

And $619.00 in Australia

That's £345 and $419 (USD) using XE.com, so actually cheaper than the UK!

$350 USD is the same as £288, so why is it the most expensive here?