Topping E30 DAC Review

[proud]

I see that you have not set (as often recommended by the designer) the -3db on the max volume....

I use the HQPlayer in conjunction with the Roon. The volume is not adjustable, I can only control the analogue on the amplifiers. There are no overloads and interruptions in sound, the volume is fixed exactly at -3dB.

 

[giordy]

I was referring to the max volume of the software (HQP)
from the image you posted the volume was at 0 db.

 

[proud]

I was referring to the max volume of the software (HQP)

It is better to choose the volume level in this place. This is additionally the overload indicator, it can light up red.

 

[Megaken]

Hi I'm having an issue with the E30, maybe someone can shed some light - I have a marantz nr1609 receiver and I play music from my phone and it sounds pretty great when the phone is connected through a........... bluetooth receiver!

Then I got a new topping e30 dac and connected it to the same marantz receiver and USB to the same phone. And it sounds just OK. Nowhere near the soundstage and richness of bluetooth.

How is this possible?

N.b:
- All cables are good, and I tried different cables. And different inputs on the receiver.
- the bluetooth receiver is connected to the marantz via toslink
- it's a 2.1 setup with decent speakers
- I tried 2 different phones, same results
- the topping dac is in dac mode, and shows correct sampling rate
- I tried different sources - from high quality flac files to mediocre quality streaming - same result.
- I'm using USB audio player pro (but same behavior with other apps)
- Same behavior in all surround modes and direct
- I have an older topping dac (different model) that shows the same performance (that's why I bought the e30, thought it would be better).

 

[Moosi]

Of course, check it out. My settings are correct and work with any format automatically. Do exactly as in my screenshot. You can only change to lighter filters and modulators, my computer is quite powerful.

It does not work! With (48k DSD) checked and 48x256 the E30 plays 48/96khz music, but shows 22.5DSD on display and plays with heavy(!) distortet noises, like really unlistenable pure noise laying above the track.
With (48k DSD) unchecked and 48x256 the E30 plays 48/96khz music, but the display of the E30 still saying "11.2DSD" not "12.5DSD" and the music sounds weird, especially the voices, as If they were pitched or streched. (*adaptive output checked both cases)

edit: If I set "adaptive output" to grey instead of checked, it works with (48k DSD) checked and 48x256 playing both 48khz and 41khz music fine without any distortions, but only in DSD512 with the E30 display saying: "22.57DSD" which is also not correct, should be "24.5DSD" with 48k base. That's a little too much CPU load for me.

edit edit: If I change the modulator from DSD5v2 to ASDM7 it works the way you intented, playing with "adaptive output checked" and (48k DSD) on plus 48x256, but the music again sounds pitched/strechted and the display still saying "11.2DSD".

Therefore I assume the E30 can't handle any DSD input with 48k base, at least not in native DSD.

 

[ShinMolina]

Saying too much CPU load for playing music should be illegal. Don't take it seriously.

 

[threni]

Hi I'm having an issue with the E30, maybe someone can shed some light - I have a marantz nr1609 receiver and I play music from my phone and it sounds pretty great when the phone is connected through a........... bluetooth receiver!

Then I got a new topping e30 dac and connected it to the same marantz receiver and USB to the same phone. And it sounds just OK. Nowhere near the soundstage and richness of bluetooth.

How is this possible?

N.b:
- All cables are good, and I tried different cables. And different inputs on the receiver.
- the bluetooth receiver is connected to the marantz via toslink
- it's a 2.1 setup with decent speakers
- I tried 2 different phones, same results
- the topping dac is in dac mode, and shows correct sampling rate
- I tried different sources - from high quality flac files to mediocre quality streaming - same result.
- I'm using USB audio player pro (but same behavior with other apps)
- Same behavior in all surround modes and direct
- I have an older topping dac (different model) that shows the same performance (that's why I bought the e30, thought it would be better).

I'm struggling to visualise your setup - it sounds very complicated, but I'm sure it's just me being out of touch with receivers and bluetooth and the like
(I have pc -> e30 -> amp -> headphones). You have a phone (via usb) -> e30 -> receiver -> speakers? And it sounds better instead going phone (via bluetooth) -> bluetooth receiver -> receiver -> speakers? If two different dacs sounds the same as each other, and worse than the old setup, then perhaps you prefer the lossy sound of bluetooth, or there's some processing going on, such as "loudness" or stereo widening. That's probably more likely than the E30 making a mess of the soundstage (I couldn't guess what "richness" means). Do you have any other devices with RCA out you can connect to your receiver (cassette deck, cd player etc) in case all the RCA inputs are screwed?

 

[Moosi]

"Fifth order modulators are more suitable for DACs that have simple analog
reconstruction filters. Seventh order modulators provide better technical performance,
but also put more demands on the DAC's analog reconstruction filter. Typically this
means that fifth order modulators suit DACs that have one switching element while
seventh order modulators have potential for better performance on DACs that have
multi-element switching arrays." from HQplayer manual

So what is it with the E30? Fifth order (one switching element) or seventh order (multi-element array)?

 

[giordy]

It does not work! With (48k DSD) checked and 48x256 the E30 plays 48/96khz music, but shows 22.5DSD on display and plays with heavy(!) distortet noises, like really unlistenable pure noise laying above the track.
With (48k DSD) unchecked and 48x256 the E30 plays 48/96khz music, but the display of the E30 still saying "11.2DSD" not "12.5DSD" and the music sounds weird, especially the voices, as If they were pitched or streched. (*adaptive output checked both cases)

edit: If I set "adaptive output" to grey instead of checked, it works with (48k DSD) checked and 48x256 playing both 48khz and 41khz music fine without any distortions, but only in DSD512 with the E30 display saying: "22.57DSD" which is also not correct, should be "24.5DSD" with 48k base. That's a little too much CPU load for me.

edit edit: If I change the modulator from DSD5v2 to ASDM7 it works the way you intented, playing with "adaptive output checked" and (48k DSD) on plus 48x256, but the music again sounds pitched/strechted and the display still saying "11.2DSD".

Therefore I assume the E30 can't handle any DSD input with 48k base, at least not in native DSD.

maybe it is trivial ... but if you use windows try to uninstall the asio drivers of the topping and reinstall them .... better if there are no other asio drivers installed ....

 

[Moosi]

maybe it is trivial ... but if you use windows try to uninstall the asio drivers of the topping and reinstall them .... better if there are no other asio drivers installed ....

As I understand it, the E30 can't do multiples of 48k in DSD native. Has someone ever seen his or her E30 showing "DSD12.5" or "DSD25.X" on display?

I am using the "poly_sinc_gauss" filter now which is said to be able to convert 41/48k on its own. This way I leave the other settings to 41k. Haven't noticed any sound issues with 48k so far. It sounds awesome.

 

[proud]

So what is it with the E30? Fifth order (one switching element) or seventh order (multi-element array)?

AK4493 uses multi-element switching arrays. They is designated in the datasheet schema as SCF. And in the direct DSD mode, the signal arrives at them bypassing all PCM processing. Therefore, the seventh order is uniquely

And giordy correctly asked about the driver XMOS. Do you have the latest version? See what it shows. This is how it looks in the mode of converting PCM48 to DSD512 from me

 

[Moosi]

AK4493 uses multi-element switching arrays. They is designated in the datasheet schema as SCF. And in the direct DSD mode, the signal arrives at them bypassing all PCM processing. Therefore, the seventh order is uniquely

Thank you. I already thought so because the 7th order sounds better/deeper on the E30.

And giordy correctly asked about the driver XMOS. Do you have the latest version? See what it shows. This is how it looks in the mode of converting PCM48 to DSD512 from me

I don't use Xmos drivers, I am using the offical Topping ASIO drivers (5.20) which have Xmos included. The problem with the comparison is that you do not have a Topping E30, but a SMSL Sanskrit. Despite them having the same chip (AK4493) there can be differences in how those chips are configured by the manufacturer. I need someone with an E30 to approve the device being capable of 48k multitutes in native DSD.

edit: Now I deinstalled all other ASIO drivers except the Topping drivers. If I now check the (48k DSD) mark and choose 48x512 plus "adaptive output" checked I can finally play 48k with the HQplayer modulator switching to 48x512 and switching back to 41x512 when playing a 41k track. So far so good, BUT the voices on the 48k tracks are again pitched or streched and sound unnatural with the display still saying "22.57DSD" which is 41k based. The E30 just can't do it.

Maybe, but just maybe Topping fu**** their drivers up in a way or forgot to address the issue on the driver implementation side. Maybe If I install Xmos drivers instead of Topping drivers the problem will be solved. But I'm in doubt and hesitant to try.

 

[Megaken]

You have a phone (via usb) -> e30 -> receiver -> speakers? And it sounds better instead going phone (via bluetooth) -> bluetooth receiver -> receiver -> speakers?

yes - exactly.
Not sure why it seems complicated, especially without the external DAC - phone > bluetooth receiver > AVR > speakers - seems like a pretty standard basic setup. I wanted to make it better by replacing the bluetooth receiver with a USB DAC, which is logical. But it doesn't make it better, and I'm trying to figure out why.

You mentioned 'lossy sound of bluetooth' - which is exactly what I am trying to replace with a 'lossless' USB DAC. By 'richer' I mean bluetooth sounds noticeably more detailed - like there's a wider frequency range, lows are lower and highs are higher, and everything is more pronounced, sounds like you're next to the stage at a concert. Whereas going through the USB DAC it sounds like an average boombox (in comparison).

And the same bluetooth receiver that is connected with toslink to the AVR actually has RCA outs too and when I connect it through RCAs it sounds as good it does via toslink, so the RCAs/analog circuitry is okay.

 

[Megaken]

Hi, I'm obviously a newbie here, but I just recently got my E30 to replace the Standard Design Grace SDAC that was paired with my L30 which mostly drives my HD6XX. I'm running the IF AutoEQ profile for the HD6XX (-6.4dB), so I need to run the L30 at +9dB at 12:00 gain to get to my desired volume levels (big but not loud) with all software volumes at 100%. I'm using the E30 in DAC mode, FIR filter 4, 32-bit 88.2k PCM input, RCA to L30.

Anyway, I've been switching between the two DACs for the past few days even asking the wife to switch them for me to avoid bias, but I've been pretty consistently leaning towards the SDAC sound, which was surprising. For some reason, I'm finding the rendition from the E30 to have much flatter bass response and almost completely dead lower bass. By comparison, the SDAC sounds much more dynamic and airy which is what I would expect from the music I listen to (orchestral). Both E30 and SDAC outputs use the same EQ settings in EAPO. And, since both DACs have about the same output voltage I don't even touch the volume knob. However, the sound from my E30 just seems to lack life. This was completely unexpected since I thought the E30 would handily beat the SDAC. Is this a common problem with the model, or is this a defective unit?

Quick note, I got the E30 as an open-box returned unit from a reputable seller (Aoshida HiFi-JP), but they had some concerns since the previous owner did not state a reason for the return. I don't think it's defective since background is completely black to my ears and nothing is visibly wrong with the unit, but I'm wondering if there's some standard way for a newbie to objectively test for other issues? I don't want to simply return the unit without proof of a problem since I quite like the look of the stack, and returning items for no reason is considered impolite here in Japan.

Also, since this is my first experience with this DAC, I'm wondering if anyone with some experience with this sort of setup can chime in if I'm doing something wrong? Thanks.

Hey did you ever figure out why it's flat and 'dead'? I'm experiencing this too.

 

[Moosi]

Quick note, I got the E30 as an open-box returned unit from a reputable seller (Aoshida HiFi-JP), but they had some concerns since the previous owner did not state a reason for the return.

What are the first four letters of the serial of that E30?

 

[threni]

yes - exactly.
Not sure why it seems complicated, especially without the external DAC - phone > bluetooth receiver > AVR > speakers - seems like a pretty standard basic setup. I wanted to make it better by replacing the bluetooth receiver with a USB DAC, which is logical. But it doesn't make it better, and I'm trying to figure out why.

You mentioned 'lossy sound of bluetooth' - which is exactly what I am trying to replace with a 'lossless' USB DAC. By 'richer' I mean bluetooth sounds noticeably more detailed - like there's a wider frequency range, lows are lower and highs are higher, and everything is more pronounced, sounds like you're next to the stage at a concert. Whereas going through the USB DAC it sounds like an average boombox (in comparison).

And the same bluetooth receiver that is connected with toslink to the AVR actually has RCA outs too and when I connect it through RCAs it sounds as good it does via toslink, so the RCAs/analog circuitry is okay.

It seems complicated because I've never considered adding a bluetooth stage to my hifi, nor have I never seen such a setup. I guess if you have to you have to!

When you connected the bluetooth receiver to the receiver via RCA I fear you may have missed my point. Like I said, perhaps "there's some processing going on, such as "loudness" or stereo widening" in that bluetooth device; connecting it to the receiver via RCA doesn't rule that out.

It would be good if you could compare:
1) a CD player via RCA into the receiver
2) a lossless rip of that CD through the DAC via RCA

Another possibility is that both the DACs you tried have the same fault. This seems unlikely, however.

 

[threni]

Hey did you ever figure out why it's flat and 'dead'? I'm experiencing this too.

Flat is an odd word to use to criticise a DAC. I bought the E30 precisely because it IS entirely flat, as Amir's measurements show. Dead usually means faulty. The more accurate the description of any perceived weakness in a piece of kit the less interpretation/guesswork the reader has to do to try and diagnose the fix the problem.

 

[Zek]

Something new - E50
https://2unb5sld2o2hb7fbweoju6gfba-...slate.goog/f/measurements-of-topping-e50-dac/

 

[Toku]

Something new - E50
https://2unb5sld2o2hb7fbweoju6gfba-...slate.goog/f/measurements-of-topping-e50-dac/

Will it be released in 3 months from the example of D10 Balanced?
This model is probably the successor to the D50s.

 

[daftcombo]

If Topping wanted to release a Balanced version of the E30 (as they did for D10), I'm in.