I remember last year I was trying to do room eq with my Paradigm Studio Sub15.
One laptop is very old Windows 98 based laptop. The other is newer laptop with latest Windows OS. Same USB cable. Both laptops run on battery. Connect the old laptop via USB to the sub, I would hear faint electrical noises came out of the sub. Using the newer laptop, sub is not making noise.
So the source equipment matter. Would adding anything between the old laptop usb out and the sub"s USB in helps, I wonder.
How do you know if someone using noisy equipment upstream of a DAC is not hearing better sound once the noises are suppressed?
*disclaimer - I know this thread has been a bit hijacked and at the same time IMHO sometimes this is for the best.*
Yes, these noises are part of what is being tested here. Sometimes maybe the USB output of the device is noisy.
Now the question is something along the line of can adding a "special" USB or some other product fix that?
Maybe, but you would be able to test and MEASURE this particular flaw. You make changes and remeasure.
Ground loops are very common issues and can originate from all sorts of combinations of gear. For example in my car any time my phone is is connected via headphones output to my DSP-408 and is also charging I get some noise, I guarantee you I can measure that noise along with hearing it.
Many expensive products out there such as power conditioners and cables make claims to fix these issues, will they? If they do you most certainly can measure the changes. I can subjectively hear the ground loop and I can objectively measure it.
All this forum is essentially doing is measuring gear with fairly advanced equipment and proving that the gear lives lives up it's promise objectively.
The test equipment here is sensitive, in the same way a microscope sees smaller things than we can see with the naked eye visually this equipment sees small things in the auditory realm.
If a manufacturer has a product that truly works it will be able to substantiate it and they will be happy to have it investigated. There are many products that do work as described.
There are many that do not. It doesn't need to be an exotic claim. A very simple example would the all to common amplifier power claim. How many amps to we see now claiming far more power than they actually test with?
There is a lot of money at stake and for many people money is a great temptation, exaggerating or even outright lying has become common place. (certainly not just in audio)
I feel for Hydra too.....
Amir's measurements are clean. But someone out there will have ground loop issue. Imagine everyone here said ground loop issue is pure imagination and it is all in his/her head....He/her needs to prove to everyone with measurements and doing double blind to conclusively convince people he/she is not delusional.
The thing is you could measure that ground loop. You understand what I mean right? A ground loop is verifiable that way. If for some reason your combination of cables and gear has created a ground loop that is audible it most certainly is also measurable.
Now are there aspects of sound that we can hear but don't have a good measurement system for, that do not translate well objectively yet? Likely there are. However bear in mind that by now with all the good measurements we can take, that loop hole, while real, is getting pretty small in terms of HIFI gear.
While HIFI is quite mature in it's present forms, many improvements are still yet to made and some things will always remain hard to put a finger on.
Unfortunately $1000 speaker wires, TOSLINK connectors and AC chords and may other products are IMHO purely an exploration of that loop hole.
I feel for you Hydra as I too sometimes give subjective opinions and never provide any substantial evidence except I like what I heard
. I too have been mocked by some over here but fret not, words cannot hurt us (agree to disagree lol). However, I too rely on the reviews here to guide me on what gears to buy especially the cheap but have decent to more than decent measurements. Guys, sometimes your rolleyes hurt us but perhaps we brought it upon ourselves so to me all is good. Actually I do have fun poking subjective comments and see some of you coming out of the woodwork to straighten things out. Hilarious I say
There is nothing wrong with subjectivity. If you like a speaker with extra bass no problem. If you like a little 3rd order harmonic distortion in your tweeter to add some edge to your grunge, techno, power chord driven music no problem.
This is the spice of life - fat bass, tight bass, smooth treble, screaming treble. Tube amps may not measure well in terms of "accuracy" but if they look cool to you and you like the warm sound no problem.
If you want cool looking speaker wires, no problem, like yellow woofer cones no problem, enjoy real wood veneer no problem. Audio jewelry has it's place.
Do you want a DIY speaker that looks handmade, do you want a speaker that looks so high tech and pristine it was more likely carved out of a solid block of another dimension - all good stuff.
Thinking and feeling your music sounds great is important. Without the subjective stamp of approval of your personal experience you have nothing.
Audio (everything) is an adventure, just watch out for the Thneeds.