Topping E30 DAC Review

[ShinMolina]

Ooh no here we go again...

This happens everywhwere, even in ASR.

Then explain to me why even different DACs from different manufacturers using the very same DAC-chips do sound different?

The main simple answer is that a complete DAC is composed of the main DAC chip and an amplification stage. Also there are good and bad DAC implementations, the DAC manufactrer almost always recommends and shows an example use/diagram/design. It is the duty of companies to implement the design of the complete device, following or not the recommendations. Then, the differences may come from the design around the DAC, not from the chip itself.

If we are talking about good DAC chips there is no sound difference if properly implemented. I have multiple ES9038Q2M DACs, one of them has a bad implementation and introduces tons of distortion. However, this is not audible, at least for my ears.

I also have an AK4993 and a Cirrus Logic one, no sonic differences between them, even after blind A/B testing. The only difference is that the Focusrite Solo containing the Cirrus Logic DAC saturates early and can be easily heard because of the obvious clipping.

 

[ShinMolina]

I’ve only used the USB input with my iPad and iPhone. I thought I had the proper mini toslink adapter to connect my AirPort Express, but apparently I just have the toslink cable. I will be trying out the optical input soon, but besides the $99 Schiit 3+, I don’t have an older E30 with the AKM chip to compare it with.

Excelent!

I bought mine a week ago from Aliexpress and was wondering if the issues are common in the new revisions. Just asking to get a general idea of the amount of existing problems.

 

[threni]

Then explain to me why even different DACs from different manufacturers using the very same DAC-chips do sound different?

The same reason some people had no problems with calls on their iPhone 4, and others got dropped calls, poor connections etc. Turns out - and Steve Jobs confirmed this - the some people were just holding it wrong.

 

[Robin L]

Then explain to me why even different DACs from different manufacturers using the very same DAC-chips do sound different?

 

[Rottmannash]

Personally I would not be too worried about extra noise. There most likely will be extra noise if you measure for it, but will it be actually audible.. I have the feeling it will be not.

It is an aluminium chassis so there is a possibility of shorting stuff. Probably would be a good thing to stick it to the bottom of the case or something using double sided tape so it can't move around.

I'm thinking about thermals.
I've read that the E30 is not the coolest DAC around as it is, placing it in a PC case which is usually not the coolest place might cause some thermal issues?

So is it advisable; No
But at the same time if you do decide to do it I'm certain nothing will blow up or go horribly wrong

I've never felt mine get even warm to the touch but YMMV.

 

[Moosi]

Different power supply design, different analog stage after the DAC chip.

Thank you. So it's mainly down to the OP-Amps and the quality of the psu. Do top-tier DAC-chips and mid/low-tier DAC-chips from the same manufacturer (AKM,ESS) differ in anything other than the level of "blackness" they can generate? I've seen for example that the AKM4497 has two additional DSD-filters (narrow,wide) which are missing on the AKM4493. I wonder if those would benefit my system since I am upscaling to DSD128 in Roon.

.

You're a true pro for mocking people who aren't as educated on a subject as you.

 

[Robin L]

You're a true pro for mocking people who aren't as educated on a subject as you.

Speaking from many years of experience, it is far easier to project [mentally] a sonic difference when there really is none. One can spend an excess of time, energy and money chasing differences that don't exist. It is yet another demonstration of the essentially neurotic nature of the audiophile.

 

[ShinMolina]

Thank you. So it's mainly down to the OP-Amps and the quality of the psu. Do top-tier DAC-chips and mid/low-tier DAC-chips from the same manufacturer (AKM,ESS) differ in anything other than the level of "blackness" they can generate?

Most differences between top and mid/low tier DAC chips from the same manufacturer are usually reduced to: number of analog outputs, bit depth, sample rate, number of I/O pins available and finally audio performance (THD+N, crosstalk...).

What I have learned by reading ASR, diyAudio and many other forums is that the implementation of a complete DAC board matters a lot more than the chip itself. A bad implementation of an AK4499EQ chip sold for 100$ a piece could have worse performance than an AK4490EQ sold for less than 10$ a piece.

For example, I have measured the two ES9038Q2M DACs that I have: the first (E1DA 9038SG3) has a THD+N lower than -110dB (that's what my audio interface can measure), while the other is a generic ES9038Q2M board with a second harmonic in the -90dB range and a measured THD+N of -88dB. Again, implementation is more important than the components (both matter), there a lot of examples shown by @amirm around here.

 

[minimalist]

Hi all,
the AK4118 version of the E30 had very respectable jitter performance for S/PDIF.
Is anybody aware of S/PDIF jitter measurements for the new version with CS8416?
It would be a pity if it got worse.

 

[ShinMolina]

Hi all,
the AK4118 version of the E30 had very respectable jitter performance for S/PDIF.
Is anybody aware of S/PDIF jitter measurements for the new version with CS8416?
It would be a pity if it got worse.

I haven't seen any measurements of jitter or THD+N using the SPDIF inputs for the newer revisions (CS8416). Mine is very near and should arrive in the following days, it should have the Cirrus Logic chip.

I could try my best to measure the jitter performance and such. I have done it before using my Scarlett Solo, but bear in mind that it can only "see" up to -110dB approximately.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I haven't seen any measurements of jitter or THD+N using the SPDIF inputs for the newer revisions (CS8416). Mine is very near and should arrive in the following days, it should have the Cirrus Logic chip.

I could try my best to measure the jitter performance and such. I have done it before using my Scarlett Solo, but bear in mind that it can only "see" up to -110dB approximately.

I can measure for you if you would like to. But according to validation we did, it doesn't change.

 

[ShinMolina]

I can measure for you if you would like to. But according to validation we did, it doesn't change.

Oh nice! There is no need for measuring then. My plan is to use the coaxil and Toslink inputs routed to the CS8416. I will report how well they work with my equipment.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Oh nice! There is no need for measuring then. My plan is to use the coaxil and Toslink inputs routed to the CS8416. I will report how well they work with my equipment.

The jitter is fine but there has been cases where compatibility/stability is not as good. So be aware of that. We have changed to another chip on D90se but even though in our tests it's better there still are reports of incompatibility.

 

[ShinMolina]

The jitter is fine but there has been cases where compatibility/stability is not as good. So be aware of that. We have changed to another chip on D90se but even though in our tests it's better there still are reports of incompatibility.

Yeah, I know. The E30 is the best DAC in its price range in my opinion, I took a chance when buying it. Since the problems I saw seemed related to old equipment I ended up getting it.

My plan is to use the Toslink input with a Samsung Smart TV and the coaxial input with a Raspberry Pi with Volumio. The seller assured me that it would work, if not I will return it.

 

[ShinMolina]

The jitter is fine but there has been cases where compatibility/stability is not as good. So be aware of that. We have changed to another chip on D90se but even though in our tests it's better there still are reports of incompatibility.

The Topping E30 has arrived this morning. I have been testing it and no issues have appeared. Everything works fine and the sound quality is great!

Is anybody aware of S/PDIF jitter measurements for the new version with CS8416?
It would be a pity if it got worse.

I had some free time and measured my E30 using the SPDIF inputs. Couldn't get any real results about THD+N because my audio interface, a Scarlett Solo, only goes down to -110dB. This thing as measured here has some harmonics in the -120dB range, so my setup only captured a "flat" noise line at my audio interface depth.

I measured a J-test signal to see if the new revisions are susceptible to jitter via their SPDIF inputs. As shown in the attached graph, same as with the THD+N, completely masked by my audio interface at -110dB, so no problem with the new ones using the CS8416.

The noise shown at lower frequencies is probably caused by ground loops in my setup, don't worry about it.

 

[kolestonin]

I connected the DAC for the 1st time today.

DAC is not recognized by Windows if powered by a USB charger or a plug extension with USB ports.
The only way to use it is from a USB port of my motherboard.
Is this a normal behaviour?

Another strange thing is that I have no option to set the volume levels of each speaker separately.
Windows sound panel and E30 driver control panel are giving me only onE sound bar for both speakers.
As this is my first DAC I am wondering again if this is expected.

Note that my speakers are connected to a sub which is connected to the DAC.

 

[minimalist]

I measured a J-test signal to see if the new revisions are susceptible to jitter via their SPDIF inputs. As shown in the attached graph, same as with the THD+N, completely masked by my audio interface at -110dB, so no problem with the new ones using the CS8416.

Thanks for measureing! Best possible outcome - you see that you see nothing.

 

[ShinMolina]

I connected the DAC for the 1st time today.

DAC is not recognized by Windows if powered by a USB charger or a plug extension with USB ports.
The only way to use it is from a USB port of my motherboard.
Is this a normal behaviour?

What connections are you using? The provided cable USB to barrel is supposed to be used for power. The USB A to USB B should be connected to your PC.

I'm trying to understand the exact problem you are having, since connecting the USB A to USB B directly to your computer should give you no problems.

Another strange thing is that I have no option to set the volume levels of each speaker separately.
Windows sound panel and E30 driver control panel are giving me only one sound bar for both speakers.
As this is my first DAC I am wondering again if this is expected.

It is not normal for a DAC to have independent channel volume controls. Also, Windows doesn't give you the option directly, you usually need to go to the playback properties of the device if I remember well.

You can also try to use any software like EqualizerAPO to control each channel volume level independently.

 

[kolestonin]

What connections are you using? The provided cable USB to barrel is supposed to be used for power. The USB A to USB B should be connected to your PC./QUOTE]
I am using the cables that came with the DAC.

USB A to USB B to connect the device to my pc.
And USB to barrel for power.

My problem is I have to connect both USBs to my PC in order to use the DAC.
While my plan was to use only the necessary USB for connection and plug the other one to a usb charger.

If I plug the USB to barrel cable in a usb charger or a plug extension with a USB port the DAC is turning on but it does not recognized by Windows.

Thanks

 

[ShinMolina]

My problem is I have to connect both USBs to my PC in order to use the DAC.
While my plan was to use only the necessary USB for connection and plug the other one to a usb charger.

If I plug the USB to barrel cable in a usb charger or a plug extension with a USB port the DAC is turning on but it does not recognized by Windows.

Strange, I have tried to connect only the USB A to USB B to my PC and the DAC doesn't turn on as you say. It seems like the USB B input of the E30 is only used for data.

I have tried connecting the USB a to USB B to my PC and the USB to barrel connector to a 5V charger and it works perfectly. Try a different charger or source, it should work. Many phone modern chargers are "intelligent" and don't deliver power if not properly requested by the device. The E30 is a "dumb" device and probably needs a "dumb" charger.