• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Topping DM7 8-Channel DAC Review

Rate this DAC:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 7 2.2%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 18 5.6%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther

    Votes: 52 16.2%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 244 76.0%

  • Total voters
    321

chelgrian

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
340
Likes
367
Please explain what scenario/set-up you would need HDMI input?
The only interesting one is if you feed 8 channel LPCM in to it and pass through the video or your Blu-ray has two outputs.

My current setup does this with the Blu-ray video output going directly in to the TV and the HDMI audio output configured for LPCM8 going in to an AudioLab 8000AP which needs a NAD M27.

Of course there are few UHD Blu-ray players left on the market and even fewer of them have the two HDMI outputs you need to make this work or can even decode to LPCM8 I have a Panasonic DP-UB820.

The limitations of this are that I can't do Atmos and I can only do AC3 via TOSLINK from the TV itself back to the AudioLab for streaming. The AudioLab also lacks a trigger output which is annoying.

I would replace the processor if anything workable was made but:

NAD m17 - persistent issues with high frequency noise on analogue outputs, mis feature where it is impossible to turn the display off, hdmi switching issues reported by some people.

Anthem AVM70 - Buggy and who knows what the current design actually measures like.

Storm Audio - Possibly technically workable but the cost is out of reach.
 

sarumbear

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
7,604
Likes
7,324
Location
UK
The only interesting one is if you feed 8 channel LPCM in to it and pass through the video or your Blu-ray has two outputs.

My current setup does this with the Blu-ray video output going directly in to the TV and the HDMI audio output configured for LPCM8 going in to an AudioLab 8000AP which needs a NAD M27.

Of course there are few UHD Blu-ray players left on the market and even fewer of them have the two HDMI outputs you need to make this work or can even decode to LPCM8 I have a Panasonic DP-UB820.

The limitations of this are that I can't do Atmos and I can only do AC3 via TOSLINK from the TV itself back to the AudioLab for streaming. The AudioLab also lacks a trigger output which is annoying.

I would replace the processor if anything workable was made but:

NAD m17 - persistent issues with high frequency noise on analogue outputs, mis feature where it is impossible to turn the display off, hdmi switching issues reported by some people.

Anthem AVM70 - Buggy and who knows what the current design actually measures like.

Storm Audio - Possibly technically workable but the cost is out of reach.
So you consider this USB DAC, which cannot support any of the modern sound formats on a few Blu-ray players that are left on the market as manufacturers see it as a dying format.

In other words you are looking for a unique solution for your niche case but blaming Toping that their USB DAC is not good enough if it doesn't have HDMI input? Have I got that correct?
 

chelgrian

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
340
Likes
367
So you consider this USB DAC, which cannot support any of the modern sound formats on a few Blu-ray players that are left on the market as manufacturers see it as a dying format.

In other words you are looking for a unique solution for your niche case but blaming Toping that their USB DAC is not good enough if it doesn't have HDMI input? Have I got that correct?

Erm no you haven't. I am not blaming anyone.

I was answering your question as to if there are any use cases for a multichannel DAC with HDMI input which you posited to the poster 'acerun'.

The answer is there *is* a use case but it's not one one with a large enough market support a product at least in the consumer market.

In the Pro market a 8 channel LPCM de-embedder to AES3 exists and was commissioned by Sony Entertainment because they needed it.


It is not cheap.
 

sarumbear

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
7,604
Likes
7,324
Location
UK
The answer is there *is* a use case but it's not one one with a large enough market support a product at least in the consumer market.
Seems like that would be an instant smash hit, esp if it could pass room correction.

I am confused. I read your post asking @Kal Rubinson to use his influence “to get us a HDMI input version!” and sounded pretty confident that HDMI input will convert this DAC to a “smash hit”. However, you now say the market is too small. o_O
 
Last edited:

chelgrian

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
340
Likes
367
I am confused. I read your post asking @Kal Rubinson to use his influence “to get us a HDMI input version!” and sounded pretty confident that HDMI input will convert this DAC to a “smash hit”. However, you now say the market is too small. o_O
Erm that was not me you are confusing me with the user 'acerun' who posted that request I am not acerun I am chelgrian.
 

sarumbear

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
7,604
Likes
7,324
Location
UK
Erm that was not me you are confusing me with the user 'acerun' who posted that request I am not acerun I am chelgrian.
I apologise. I should have paid more attention.
 

phoenixdogfan

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
3,335
Likes
5,236
Location
Nashville
Erm no you haven't. I am not blaming anyone.

I was answering your question as to if there are any use cases for a multichannel DAC with HDMI input which you posited to the poster 'acerun'.

The answer is there *is* a use case but it's not one one with a large enough market support a product at least in the consumer market.

In the Pro market a 8 channel LPCM de-embedder to AES3 exists and was commissioned by Sony Entertainment because they needed it.


It is not cheap.
Interesting. If it is de-embedding that has to mean it's converting bitstream to LPCM which means it's also decoding the Codec. So which codecs? Dolby True HD 7.1? Or only Dolby Digital Plus? DTS-HD? Or just DTS ES? Also how would this allow for PEQ, Bass Management, and DSP? Don't think any multichannel DAC capable of receiving four AES/EBU inputs like my OCTO DAC 8 Pro, also has onboard routing, PEQ, Bass Mgt, and DSP, so don't know what the use case would be for this unit.
 

chelgrian

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
340
Likes
367
Interesting. If it is de-embedding that has to mean it's converting bitstream to LPCM which means it's also decoding the Codec. So which codecs? Dolby True HD 7.1? Or only Dolby Digital Plus? DTS-HD? Or just DTS ES? Also how would this allow for PEQ, Bass Management, and DSP? Don't think any multichannel DAC capable of receiving four AES/EBU inputs like my OCTO DAC 8 Pro, also has onboard routing, PEQ, Bass Mgt, and DSP, so don't know what the use case would be for this unit.
It doesn't decode anything, all it can do it de-embed 8 channels of LPCM which are already present decoded in the HDMI

Similarly it's mean to run in to a professional monitor controller like a Trinnov D-MON which certainly does do all the DSP processing required.
 

phoenixdogfan

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
3,335
Likes
5,236
Location
Nashville
It doesn't decode anything, all it can do it de-embed 8 channels of LPCM which are already present decoded in the HDMI

Similarly it's mean to run in to a professional monitor controller like a Trinnov D-MON which certainly does do all the DSP processing required.
So all this would really do is bypass the DACs on a Trinov or similar processor which inputs HDMI bitstream, decodes an LPCM video+audio signal, passes it to this de-embedder which in turn passes the video portion to a monitor and strips out the LPCM audio and sends it via AES/EBU to a multichannel DAC which also has AES/EBU inputs?
 
Last edited:

chelgrian

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
340
Likes
367
So all this would really do is bypass the DACs on a Trinov or similar processor which inputs HDMI bitstream, decodes an LPCM video+audio signal, passes it to this de-embedder which in turn passes the video portion to a monitor and strips out the LPCM audio and sends it via AES/EBU to a multichannel DAC which also has AES/EBU inputs?
A D-MON doesn't have HDMI input it's not home theatre processor it's an audio monitor controller for content creation in professional studios.

The use case for this is from getting audio in to a professional studio from a source which is already providing 8 channel of LPCM over HDMI such as some Blu-ray players which can do decoding internally or any SDI (Serial Digital Interface which is a profession video interface standard) to HDMI conversion.

You obviously can't do any formats which require more than 8 channels or only have encoded form such as Atmos over TrueHD for that pro studios would use


Which can decode things like DTS an Atmos but doesn't do any other processing and again the signal is then handed off to something like a D-MON.
 

dartinbout

Active Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2020
Messages
272
Likes
277
Wow! My beloved DM7 is ending the year on a bang! Noted surround audio maven, Mr. Kalman Rubinson just raved up the Sterophile "pages" with an incandescent write up and expect a review from that well known curmudgeon, Zeos Pantera, in the coming days. He appears to be initially a bit confused by the 8 armed beast, many of us know and love, but I expect him to wrestle this cephalopod to a draw within the coming weeks. Let's hope this drives up sales and we get a DM8 with some of the bells and whistles this thread has clamored for (8 channel DSD256, RCA, HDMI, DTS, Atmos, other Dolby-isms, a volume knob and maybe a "Russian Finish" for the perpetually unsatisfied).
I'll post the Z Review link when it escapes his Patreon clutches.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mkt

Docteur Poulet

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
35
Likes
59
Location
Switzerland
Hi,
I would like to buy a symmetrical multi-outputs USB soundcard for a basic AVR setup :
- source : 1x Ryzen computer
- display : an old Nec Multeos M40
- 5 actives speakers from PSI Audio (I'll add a subwoofer later)

Does the Topping DM7 or a Motu Ultralite MK5 fit the bill?
Is it possible to decode Dolby Atmos in Windows?
What are the limitations with this system?

Thank you in advance
Pardon my broken English 'cause hon hon hon croissant
 

himey

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2022
Messages
56
Likes
20
Hi,
I would like to buy a symmetrical multi-outputs USB soundcard for a basic AVR setup :
- source : 1x Ryzen computer
- display : an old Nec Multeos M40
- 5 actives speakers from PSI Audio (I'll add a subwoofer later)

Does the Topping DM7 or a Motu Ultralite MK5 fit the bill?
Is it possible to decode Dolby Atmos in Windows?
What are the limitations with this system?

Thank you in advance
Pardon my broken English 'cause hon hon hon croissant
https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/imme...olby-truehd-atmos-on-windows-and-macos-r1092/
 

russtafarian

New Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2023
Messages
2
Likes
0
Greetings. I just purchase a DM7 after reading Kal’s review. I’ve been waiting for a multi-channel DSD DAC at this price point for well over 10 years. I can finally abandon the compromised HDMI solutions I’ve been stuck with for playing multi-channel FLAC and DSD files.

One thread topic that caught my attention is connecting the DM7’s balanced ¼“ TRS outputs to a preamp with single end RCA inputs. It’s easy to do, but you must do it correctly. If you solder, it’s a simple cable build/modification. If you don't solder, you can have a company like HAVE, Inc build the cables for you.

A balanced audio line carries two signals over three conductors. One signal is the original and the second signal is identical except it is polarity inverted. The third conductor is the shared ground. At the balanced input, the inverted polarity signal is flipped back to positive and combined with the original signal. Any noise not in the original audio signal is now out of phase and gets cancelled.

For XLR balanced connections, pin 1 is ground, pin 2 is the original signal, and pin 3 is the polarity inverted signal. For ¼“ TRS balanced connections like the DM7, tip is the original signal, ring (the conductor band between tip and sleave) is the polarity inverted signal and sleave is ground.

To build a balanced to single end cable for the DM7, connect TRS tip to RCA center pin and TRS sleave to RCA sleave. That‘s it. TRS ring is not connected. Note: transformer balanced outputs to single end RCA inputs are handled differently but there’s no need to go into that here.

Here’s what you DO NOT want to do.

DO NOT connect TRS ring to the RCA connector at all. If you connect TRS ring to RCA center pin, you combine the original and inverted signals and the two cancel each other out. If you connect TRS ring to RCA sleave, you short the inverted signal to ground, significantly increasing distortion and potentially damaging the DAC’s output circuit.

DO NOT use a ¼“ TS plug (no ring conductor). A ¼“ TS plug will short the inverted signal to ground when inserted into the ¼“ TRS balanced output.

When the DM7 output is connected to a preamp with this cable, you get the original signal with no loss in fidelity. The output level will drop 6db since you don’t get the balanced input gain increase from combining the two signals. Not a big deal in most systems. You also lose the noise cancellation of a balanced to balanced connection so this is not recommended for long cable runs. But for connecting the DM7 to other gear in your rack, this is no different than any other RCA to RCA cable connection.

Russ
 

MCH

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
2,654
Likes
2,262
Greetings. I just purchase a DM7 after reading Kal’s review. I’ve been waiting for a multi-channel DSD DAC at this price point for well over 10 years. I can finally abandon the compromised HDMI solutions I’ve been stuck with for playing multi-channel FLAC and DSD files.

One thread topic that caught my attention is connecting the DM7’s balanced ¼“ TRS outputs to a preamp with single end RCA inputs. It’s easy to do, but you must do it correctly. If you solder, it’s a simple cable build/modification. If you don't solder, you can have a company like HAVE, Inc build the cables for you.

A balanced audio line carries two signals over three conductors. One signal is the original and the second signal is identical except it is polarity inverted. The third conductor is the shared ground. At the balanced input, the inverted polarity signal is flipped back to positive and combined with the original signal. Any noise not in the original audio signal is now out of phase and gets cancelled.

For XLR balanced connections, pin 1 is ground, pin 2 is the original signal, and pin 3 is the polarity inverted signal. For ¼“ TRS balanced connections like the DM7, tip is the original signal, ring (the conductor band between tip and sleave) is the polarity inverted signal and sleave is ground.

To build a balanced to single end cable for the DM7, connect TRS tip to RCA center pin and TRS sleave to RCA sleave. That‘s it. TRS ring is not connected. Note: transformer balanced outputs to single end RCA inputs are handled differently but there’s no need to go into that here.

Here’s what you DO NOT want to do.

DO NOT connect TRS ring to the RCA connector at all. If you connect TRS ring to RCA center pin, you combine the original and inverted signals and the two cancel each other out. If you connect TRS ring to RCA sleave, you short the inverted signal to ground, significantly increasing distortion and potentially damaging the DAC’s output circuit.

DO NOT use a ¼“ TS plug (no ring conductor). A ¼“ TS plug will short the inverted signal to ground when inserted into the ¼“ TRS balanced output.

When the DM7 output is connected to a preamp with this cable, you get the original signal with no loss in fidelity. The output level will drop 6db since you don’t get the balanced input gain increase from combining the two signals. Not a big deal in most systems. You also lose the noise cancellation of a balanced to balanced connection so this is not recommended for long cable runs. But for connecting the DM7 to other gear in your rack, this is no different than any other RCA to RCA cable connection.

Russ

Several people have raised questions regarding unbalanced connection using DM7.

In short, don't do it.

There are many nuances to this same as D10 Balanced. The fear came from us in the D10 Balanced days were that people would directly connect TS to RCA cable to the output shorting out the output stage. Even though it wouldn't damage it, it's still very not good to just short out an output of a device.

Regarding TRS to RCA cable that left + or - open, there can be small amount of residual DC offset at the output, last time I check it is smaller than D10 Balanced's. It's certainly not prohibited to do it although not recommended. The next stage should have DC blocking to make sure the DC offset from the DAC doesn't get amplified 20-30 times. And unfortunately unbalanced multiple devices connection will extremely likely cause ground loop. Even it is possible to do so without harm to any components. It likely would cause some degree of hum/buzz/high pitch noise from USB etc. It can be done but quality is not assured.

So in the end, balanced all the way will almost guarantee good quality audio in a system.
 

MCH

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
2,654
Likes
2,262
First post shouted down. Welcome to ASR.
Hi @russtafarian sorry for that, as @Trell says, no intention to shout you down at all, just exactly what he explains. I added no comments from my side because I have no idea of those details, i just remember John's post because I was very excited when the dm7 was released and this was a sort of bummer for my use case...
Sorry and welcome to ASR!!
 
Top Bottom