Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[rlwings]

There's a new driver available for windows. It's V5.27

Any ides what changed with the new driver? - Anybody know? (Other than Windows 11 compatibility)

 

[51514brad]

Are these dropouts occurring when using with output from a TV? There have been a few reports I've read here of similar problems.

I just bought an E50 specifically to connect my TV to my amp via the TV's optical output and the dropouts are several times a minute. When I switch to my (much more expensive) Moon 280D DAC there are no dropouts whatsoever.

I see there is an available firmware update (although no instructions) and I wonder if this may help. Alternatively, might a 5V power supply (rather than the USB cable) solve this problem?

 

[51514brad]

Is it only MS Windows users who are experiencing these audio interruption problems? I've yet to reproduce anything like this from my Linux-based Roon endpoints. I've not tested the Topping with Windows (or macOS, for that matter), but I believe that @amirm uses a Windows PC for all of his measurements. Surprised that he did not encounter this issue.

I can tell you that the dropouts on my E50 are horrendous running my TV's optical output through it. This happens to be the primary purpose for which I purchased the E50

 

[skyfly]

Is Topping's CLDP jitter reduction circuit the cause of sound dropouts with TV?

D50s does not advertise CLDP. I did not see a D50s post complaining about sound dropouts when connected by optical cable with TV.

 

[Veri]

Is Topping's CLDP jitter reduction circuit the cause of sound dropouts with TV?

Yes, it has an advanced ultra low jitter circuit. It's definitely different.

 

[Eddy H.]

I can tell you that the dropouts on my E50 are horrendous running my TV's optical output through it. This happens to be the primary purpose for which I purchased the E50

Do you have a LG tv?

 

[bogi]

I can tell you that the dropouts on my E50 are horrendous running my TV's optical output through it. This happens to be the primary purpose for which I purchased the E50

Why don't you ask in E50 thread? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../topping-e50-review-balanced-dac.26219/latest

 

[NPWS]

Hi @JohnYang1997 ,

I have D90SE pairing with Singxer SA-1, I've tried several times to listen between Line out Type : RCA out only, XLR only and RCA+XLR using USB from my PC using foobar, turnout that RCA only have bigger power, more clear and everything than XLR only or RCA+XLR, using XLR it should have more power yes?
XLR only was the same with RCA+XLR, to my ear.
RCA only was bigger power than all of them : XLR only or RCA+XLR.
I know RCA only = 2.5V
XLR Only = 5V
RCA on RCA+XLR = 2V
XLR on RCA+XLR = 4V
yeah I've read that's spec on topping web. from what I heard on my d90se, RCA only have more power than XLR only, for example I drive my hifiman he400i using RCA only I set the volume on my SA-1 between 10 / 11 o'clock, but when I switch to XLR only I have to adjust the volume to 1 / 2 o'clock to get the same amount of volume match as RCA out. I'm afraid that my unit was defective. is my D90SE defective?
Thanks

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

Hi @JohnYang1997 ,

I have D90SE pairing with Singxer SA-1, I've tried several times to listen between Line out Type : RCA out only, XLR only and RCA+XLR using USB from my PC using foobar, turnout that RCA only have bigger power, more clear and everything than XLR only or RCA+XLR, using XLR it should have more power yes?
XLR only was the same with RCA+XLR, to my ear.
RCA only was bigger power than all of them : XLR only or RCA+XLR.
I know RCA only = 2.5V
XLR Only = 5V
RCA on RCA+XLR = 2V
XLR on RCA+XLR = 4V
yeah I've read that's spec on topping web. from what I heard on my d90se, RCA only have more power than XLR only, for example I drive my hifiman he400i using RCA only I set the volume on my SA-1 between 10 / 11 o'clock, but when I switch to XLR only I have to adjust the volume to 1 / 2 o'clock to get the same amount of volume match as RCA out. I'm afraid that my unit was defective. is my D90SE defective?
Thanks

I have the Topping Pre90/Ext90 analog preamp. It has the same behavior.

I'm using the balanced inputs, and when I select the RCA or XLR + RCA modes, output is 6 dB hotter than XLR-only mode. I was expecting the Pre90 to do a better job of matching levels between modes. Failing that, I had imagined that gain in XLR-only mode would be greater, not less than modes that activate the RCA output.

I guess what it's doing internally is routing the full balanced voltage swing from the balanced input to a single-ended signal path when the mode enables the RCA output. After the signal passes through the volume control, the signal is routed to RCA outputs as-is but for the XLR outputs, the voltage is doubled, resulting in 6 dB higher gain. For XLR in, XLR out, there are no conversions to/from a single-ended signal path.

In short, I don't think there's anything wrong with your D90SE. Although the volume knob on your amp is higher when you're using XLR-only, this mode is giving you better signal-to-noise ratio out of the DAC. Don't get too hung up about volume knob position. Actually, depending on how the SA-1 implements volume, the results may be better at 1/2 o'clock than 10/11.

 

[srkbear]

I have the Topping Pre90/Ext90 analog preamp. It has the same behavior.

I'm using the balanced inputs, and when I select the RCA or XLR + RCA modes, output is 6 dB hotter than XLR-only mode. I was expecting the Pre90 to do a better job of matching levels between modes. Failing that, I had imagined that gain in XLR-only mode would be greater, not less than modes that activate the RCA output.

I guess what it's doing internally is routing the full balanced voltage swing from the balanced input to a single-ended signal path when the mode enables the RCA output. After the signal passes through the volume control, the signal is routed to RCA outputs as-is but for the XLR outputs, the voltage is doubled, resulting in 6 dB higher gain. For XLR in, XLR out, there are no conversions to/from a single-ended signal path.

In short, I don't think there's anything wrong with your D90SE. Although the volume knob on your amp is higher when you're using XLR-only, this mode is giving you better signal-to-noise ratio out of the DAC. Don't get too hung up about volume knob position. Actually, depending on how the SA-1 implements volume, the results may be better at 1/2 o'clock than 10/11.

This is interesting and I’m trying to make sure I have things right. I read the following from the post before yours:

I know RCA only = 2.5V
XLR Only = 5V
RCA on RCA+XLR = 2V
XLR on RCA+XLR = 4V

But am I hearing both of you say that when the DAC is in XLR-only mode it’s necessary to push up the amp volume higher than when the DAC is in mixed mode? This seems counterintuitive to the above specs that suggest XLR-only outputs the highest voltage. I would think that the amp could be run at lower volumes at 5 bolts compared to 4–can you please help me with what I’m getting wrong here?

 

[skyfly]

I am somewhat a measurement guy. I would play a 50 Hz sinusoidal tone and measure voltage with a multi-meter. I would even buy a multi-meter for just that measurement. At about 50Hz, the inaccuracy in voltage reading is not very big even on an inexpensive multi-meter from RadioShack.

P.S.: In hi-fi DAC or CDP world, the audio output voltage spec at 0dB FS is a rough spec. There is not need for a manufacturer be true to the catalog spec within +/- 0.1 V.

 

[Eddy H.]

Any ides what changed with the new driver? - Anybody know? (Other than Windows 11 compatibility)

After updating the Topping driver my laptop will only output 44.1 to the dac no matter what settings I use. Any one else having this problem?

 

[Ema79]

Buon giorno. Possiedo un topping D90 e un pre90. Ho appena ordinato la nuova guarnizione D90SE. Vorrei sapere se la compatibilità con l'uscita 5v dipende dal pre o dagli amplificatori. Se dipende dal pre, immagino sia perfettamente compatibile con l'uscita 5V, giusto?

 

[NPWS]

I have the Topping Pre90/Ext90 analog preamp. It has the same behavior.

I'm using the balanced inputs, and when I select the RCA or XLR + RCA modes, output is 6 dB hotter than XLR-only mode. I was expecting the Pre90 to do a better job of matching levels between modes. Failing that, I had imagined that gain in XLR-only mode would be greater, not less than modes that activate the RCA output.

I guess what it's doing internally is routing the full balanced voltage swing from the balanced input to a single-ended signal path when the mode enables the RCA output. After the signal passes through the volume control, the signal is routed to RCA outputs as-is but for the XLR outputs, the voltage is doubled, resulting in 6 dB higher gain. For XLR in, XLR out, there are no conversions to/from a single-ended signal path.

In short, I don't think there's anything wrong with your D90SE. Although the volume knob on your amp is higher when you're using XLR-only, this mode is giving you better signal-to-noise ratio out of the DAC. Don't get too hung up about volume knob position. Actually, depending on how the SA-1 implements volume, the results may be better at 1/2 o'clock than 10/11.

thanks for reply, really appreciate it.
I'm newbie myself, I don't really know about the technical way, but when my pal try his unit (he has same setup : d90se+sa-1) and he said that his unit was normal, the XLR only output bigger and more power than RCA only. that's really makes me wonder, what happened with my unit.
perhaps @JohnYang1997 can you please enlighten me?
thanks

 

[Ema79]

OK, voglio solo esprimere il mio totale stupore per il Topping D90SE. Sia il DAC che il preamplificatore sono eccellenti!

Come ho detto prima, possiedo il nuovo amplificatore integrato Marantz Model 30 ($ 4.000 CAD) e ho pensato che la sezione di preamplificazione del Marantz dovesse essere migliore di quella del D90SE.

Ebbene, dopo essere passati da entrambi i preamplificatori, sono rimasto scioccato nello scoprire che il preamplificatore del D90SE suona molto più soddisfacente del Marantz. È una differenza ovvia, non sottile... Per meglio intendo dire che suona più risolutivo; Posso sentire più dettagli. Il Marantz è "morbido"\arrotolato e troppo "caldo" in confronto. Il Topping ha grinta ed eccitazione, ed è molto più trasparente ma in qualche modo mai troppo clinico. Per me è quasi perfetto!

Onestamente sono scioccato e mi chiedevo se potessi sentire qualcuno di voi a riguardo... Voglio dire, a $ 4.000 il Marantz pubblicizza un'eccellente sezione di preamplificazione completa con il proprio alimentatore toroidale, componenti di alta qualità e il loro "famoso" HDAM tecnologia. Il Modello 30 è pubblicizzato come due unità separate che vivono in una scatola; equivale ad avere separazioni dovute al totale isolamento dei preamplificatori dall'amplificatore e da altre sezioni. A quanto pare, molto tempo e "accordatura" sono stati dedicati a questo speciale amplificatore Marantz e sono scioccato dal fatto che il preamplificatore del Topping D90SE sia molto meglio. Voglio dire, il Topping è un DAC da $ 1.000 con un preamplificatore inserito come fattore di comodità per gridare forte. ... Seriamente, come è possibile? - Mi sento derubato da Marantz!

Pensieri?

Before buying the topping pre 90 I had an Audia hiend preamp. Audia Flight pre MK 3.2 model. The best pre ever had, yet inferior to the seasoning. This little object really surprised me positively. I sold the Flight and got the D90se as well. And I also have a lot of euros left over.

 

[Veri]

Buon giorno. Possiedo un topping D90 e un pre90. Ho appena ordinato la nuova guarnizione D90SE. Vorrei sapere se la compatibilità con l'uscita 5v dipende dal pre o dagli amplificatori. Se dipende dal pre, immagino sia perfettamente compatibile con l'uscita 5V, giusto?

Prima di comprare il topping pre 90 avevo un preamplificatore hiend della Audia. Modello Audia Flight pre MK 3.2. IL Miglior pre mai avuto, eppure inferiore al topping. Questo piccolo oggetto mi ha veramente stupito in positivo. Ho venduto il Flight e ho preso anche il D90se. E mi avanzano anche molti euro.

This is an English forum, please just have the courtesy to translate to another language and then translate back rather than posting in your native language, we don't understand it.

 

[Ema79]

This is an English forum, please just have the courtesy to translate to another language and then translate back rather than posting in your native language, we don't understand it.

Google automatically translates from English to Italian. Unfortunately this happened but I had written in English.

 

[Veri]

Google automatically translates from English to Italian. Unfortunately this happened but I had written in English.

Not a problem, thanks for editing.

 

[Gradius]

Any ides what changed with the new driver? - Anybody know? (Other than Windows 11 compatibility)

Win11 is something from v5.25.

Here is the OFFICIAL information:

-----------------------------------------------------
V5.27.0 (October 19, 2021)
-----------------------------------------------------

* Fix: fixed a security vulnerability (update recommended)

* Chg: DSP Plugin (Mixer) now works with IN or OUT only devices

-----------------------------------------------------
V5.25.0 (October 4, 2021)
-----------------------------------------------------

* New: support for Windows 11 (21H2)

* New: tested with HLK for Windows 11 on W11 version 21H2

* Chg: improved tracing/statistics

* Chg: now using SignTools 1.9

* Fix: possible infinite loop in MIDI RX

 

[Saffy]

@JohnYang1997 Should the volume level go down 2 or 3 dB when using the RCA and XLR at the same time? When I'm listening through the rcas the volume will be at a certain level but when I switch to both rca and XLR it gets quieter.

Output signal is higher using XLR on the Topping D90/se