TOPPING D90 III、TOPPING D50 III

[cheapmessiah]

Yeah, thats one other way, but unless im mistaken, we are talking about a DSP PEQ style solution in the D50III, where ideally we get 10 bands, with selectable filters, Qs and frequencies in each band.

 

[B.A.T.]

I can't get you actual release dates, as a lot of these small companies are bad at publicizing that! However we can look at review dates.

D90 - Dec 23, 2019 (no MQA support)
D90 MGA - May 15, 2020 (MQA support)

D90SE - Jun 15, 2021 (MQA support)
D90LE - released at the same time as the SE (no MQA support)

Id assume the D90SE/LE are considered the D90 II.

D90 III SABRE- Dec 18, 2023 (MQA support)
will their be a cheaper D90 III without MQA support? who knows!


either way you can see the releases are spaced out.

D90LE was realeased later than D90SE. The LE version's release date is 2022. 05. 25., otherwise it's correct.

D90 SE/LE must be the 2nd generation.

 

[Antagron]

Let's hope RME makes a DAC with 2 chips too soon

They do. It’s the Pro version.

 

[Pearljam5000]

They do. It’s the Pro version.

Too bad it's an AKM and not an ESS

 

[unpluggged]

I can't get you actual release dates, as a lot of these small companies are bad at publicizing that! However we can look at review dates.

D90 - Dec 23, 2019 (no MQA support)
D90 MGA - May 15, 2020 (MQA support)

D90SE - Jun 15, 2021 (MQA support)
D90LE - released at the same time as the SE (no MQA support)

Id assume the D90SE/LE are considered the D90 II.

D90 III SABRE- Dec 18, 2023 (MQA support)
will their be a cheaper D90 III without MQA support? who knows!


either way you can see the releases are spaced out.

So they have five different D90 SKUs in four years. And no significant feature upgrades between these "generations", they just play around with different converters while increasing their price each time. I don't know, perhaps the consumer culture in their native market is different, so they have to release the same product every year with a different name so people would buy it, and perhaps the consumers in China do not value long product and support lifecycles, but these practices don't appeal to me.

For comparison: RME ADI-2 Pro was released in 2015 and is still supported (subsequent revisions were released when AK4493 replaced the AK4490 in AKM production and when they added IR remote control), ADI-2 DAC FS was released back in 2017 and is still supported (subsequent revisions were released when AK4493 replaced the AK4490 in production and when the AKM factory was destroyed by fire). And they don't advertise each revision as something completely new. Hey, even when they had to replace the FPGA with a new generation, they did not introduce a new SKU. This is a common practice during product lifecycle. MOTU did not release a new product when they had to change from AKM converters to ESS. Qudelix did not release a new "5K II" when ES9219C replaced the ES9218P in 2021, they just updated the current product. The 5K was released more than three years ago and still gets new features.

And if we look at RME product lifecycles, the ADI-1 was released back in 1998, then it was replaced by the ADI-2 in 2005, and that one was replaced in 2019 by the ADI-2 FS. These are the basic AD/DA converters that are comparable in their features to these "dumb" consumer DACs.

Show me one reason why I would want to get the D90 III over, say, ADI-2 DAC FS? Is it better value? Not by a long shot.

 

[Guilherme_BR]

So they have five different D90 SKUs in four years. And no significant feature upgrades between these "generations", they just play around with different converters while increasing their price each time. I don't know, perhaps the consumer culture in their native market is different, so they have to release the same product every year with a different name so people would buy it, and perhaps the consumers in China do not value long product and support lifecycles, but these practices don't appeal to me.

For comparison: RME ADI-2 Pro was released in 2015 and is still supported (subsequent revisions were released when AK4493 replaced the AK4490 in AKM production and when they added IR remote control), ADI-2 DAC FS was released back in 2017 and is still supported (subsequent revisions were released when AK4493 replaced the AK4490 in production and when the AKM factory was destroyed by fire). And they don't advertise each revision as something completely new. Hey, even when they had to replace the FPGA with a new generation, they did not introduce a new SKU. This is a common practice during product lifecycle. MOTU did not release a new product when they had to change from AKM converters to ESS. Qudelix did not release a new "5K II" when ES9219C replaced the ES9218P in 2021, they just updated the current product. The 5K was released more than three years ago and still gets new features.

And if we look at RME product lifecycles, the ADI-1 was released back in 1998, then it was replaced by the ADI-2 in 2005, and that one was replaced in 2019 by the ADI-2 FS. These are the basic AD/DA converters that are comparable in their features to these "dumb" consumer DACs.

Show me one reason why I would want to get the D90 III over, say, ADI-2 DAC FS? Is it better value? Not by a long shot.

Topping D90LE is already better than ADI2 objectively. Even SU9N at a much lower price is better.

 

[Guilherme_BR]

It would be great to see a chinese audio device (adc and dac) converters to compete with products like babyface pro. I believe Smsl and topping could do better at a lower price.

 

[unpluggged]

Topping D90LE is already better than ADI2 objectively.

Better "objectively" in which way?

It would be great to see a chinese audio device (adc and dac) converters to compete with products like babyface pro. I believe Smsl and topping could do better at a lower price.

If they could do it, where is the Babyface Pro killer from China then? In contrast with you, I don't believe in something that is not there.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Is the D90 III better than the RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE?

 

[Guilherme_BR]

Better "objectively" in which way?


If they could do it, where is the Babyface Pro killer from China then? In contrast with you, I don't believe in something that is not there.

Sinad at 1khz, Intermodulation distortion, Linearity, Multitone, THD+N vs frequency, you name it...

I admire Topping for working hard to improve an already excellent DAC like D90LE. The improvements are small because D90LE quality is already outstanding.

 

[unpluggged]

I admire Topping for working hard to improve an already excellent DAC like D90LE. The improvements are small because D90LE quality is already outstanding.

I can give them credit when and where they deserve it. I've got a E30 II Lite for 72 dollars during the 11.11 sale for use with my TV recently and I'm happy with it. This is the kind of products they should stick with, not kilobuck DACs that bring no real value over the entry-level ones.

Sinad at 1khz, Intermodulation distortion, Linearity, Multitone, THD+N vs frequency, you name it...

I will name it.

− Does it have 7-band PEQ with 20 presets, tone, balance, and adjustable dynamic loudness control? No.
− Does it have adjustable stereo width, polarity and crossfeed settings? No.
− Does it have USB loopback function? No.
− Does it have SRC? No.
− Does it have digital output? No.
− Does it have built-in M/S processing? No.
− Does it have volume dimming function? No.
− Does it have level meters and spectrum analyzer display with selectable units (pre/post-FX dBFS or post-FX dBu)? No.
− Can I use it as a high-performance ADC with DSP and with SINAD of about 117 dB (if we are talking about numbers)? No.
− Can I use it as a standalone DSP unit/digital preamp? No.
− Can it accept ADAT input and pass it through? No.
− Can I plug two pairs of headphones or IEMs into it with independent volume controls and DSP settings and have SINAD of 115 dB at 1.2 W of power from digital in to HP out and up to 3.5 W of maximum output power per channel in balanced mode? No.
− Can it have up to six different setups that include each and every setting of the unit that can be stored and recalled instantly? No.
− Can I control it with a fully-featured app that RME released recently (even for units from eight years ago)? No.
− Does it have rock-solid drivers for both Windows and macOS in addition to class-compliant mode? No. (Topping use what USB chip OEM supplies them, and they even don't bother to configure USB streaming correctly).
− Does it have the same level of aftersales support as RME offers? No.

And speaking of the measurements you mentioned, can you show me "objectively" that these differences are significant? And the irony is that many people will use it with DSP-based speakers that will digitize the signal in any case and convert it back to analog with a much lower-spec converters. This is another pro for the ADI-2 Pro: I even don't have to use it as a DAC, because I can connect it to my speakers digitally, so all these —

Sinad at 1khz, Intermodulation distortion, Linearity, Multitone, THD+N vs frequency, you name it...

will not be relevant in the first place. That is not to say its analog output has any flaws, and one should not forget that this device is a mastering converter, after all.

So I don't get it why on Earth one would buy a DAC for $900 that is not much different from a DAC of the same vendor that costs 12 times less.

 

[DLS79]

So they have five different D90 SKUs in four years.

3 models in 4 years with 2 variants of each, one with MQA and one without (at different price points).

they just play around with different converters while increasing their price each time.

Inflation is a thing, and its gone up a lot in the last few years. I've purchased things recently, that cost almost twice what they did 4 or 5 years ago.

I don't know, perhaps the consumer culture in their native market is different, so they have to release the same product every year with a different name so people would buy it, and perhaps the consumers in China do not value long product and support lifecycles, but these practices don't appeal to me.

As i've said already, most companies do this now. For example phones, the number of nits wits who rush out and by the latest iphone every year makes me fear for the future of humanity.

Show me one reason why I would want to get the D90 III over, say, ADI-2 DAC FS? Is it better value? Not by a long shot.

D90 III -> $899
ADI-2 DAC FS -> $1299

YOU might not care, but to some people that $400 for features they might not want is significant.

So I don't get it why on Earth one would buy a DAC for $900 that is not much different from a DAC of the same vendor that costs 12 times less.

look at this photo

https://nwzimg.wezhan.net/contents/sitefiles3604/18020413/images/6236593.jpg

then look at this one

https://nwzimg.wezhan.net/contents/sitefiles3604/18020413/images/8597530.jpg

and you will see the differences.

 

[Gymboy]

DAC will make very subtle difference after 500 bucks, for 900 personally would look into R2R direction new and used market. Investing into proper amp aka IFI Pro Ican is better and will show notable difference in sq. My 2 cents.

 

[mocenigo]

DAC will make very subtle difference after 500 bucks, for 900 personally would look into R2R direction

Why R2R?

new and used market. Investing into proper amp aka IFI Pro Ican is better and will show notable difference in sq. My 2 cents.

Intereting choice. What is better in the IFI Pro Ican?

 

[Gymboy]

Why R2R?

Well, good R2R provides exemplar stage size and depth. Personally I always go to sigma delta as I am detail freak in medium money range, but once I decide to go high end (>1000) definitely R2R will be parked on my table. For now happy enough with D70 Pro Octo, satisfying, very positive experience in sound.

 

[Gymboy]

Intereting choice. What is better in the IFI Pro Ican?

I see guys here like to eq, I would personally go with hardware that enables tailoring sound by preference. Currently on A70 Pro/D70 Pro Octo and like it as it is, wouldn't touch any FR as it suits my SQ but if I wanted, would put Lokius in the stack.

 

[boXem]

 

[Gymboy]

That look

 

[Rja4000]

Is the D90 III better than the RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE?

Define "better".

 

[Guilherme_BR]

New DACs are implementing "Filter Off" on PCM Filters Settings. So it is possible to use Upsampling software, like HQ Player. I believe D90 iii does not have this option.