Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

[curiouspeter]

Yes, I can adjust volume from BOTH of my phone and the DAC. I don't have DSDs (except some samples), but play lots of MQAs. Volume adjustment from my phone doesn't break the hardware MQA decoding on DAC. Hope it helps.

Cool! And that's the D90 MQA?

 

[liuj2001]

Cool! And that's the D90 MQA?

D90 MQA is still being shipped on its way.
The behavior I described is with SMSL M500. But I just switch over to Topping D70s, I can't no longer adjust volume from my phone. Now I understand you dilemma. I don't know what makes the difference between SMSL M500 and D70s.

 

[curiouspeter]

D90 MQA is still being shipped on its way.
The behavior I described is with SMSL M500. But I just switch over to Topping D70s, I can't no longer adjust volume from my phone. Now I understand you dilemma. I don't know what makes the difference between SMSL M500 and D70s.

One has a properly implemented USB volume and the other does not.

To be fair, the M500 has an amp section so it is likely to have a "real" volume control.

 

[Odyssey]

I'm wondering why everyone praises the D90 so much, although it uses cheap OP, cheap capacitors, and I won't say anything about power at all ..

 

[rcstevensonaz]

I'm wondering why everyone praises the D90 so much, although it uses cheap OP, cheap capacitors, and I won't say anything about power at all ..

New member, first post... which is a potshot at the D90 without any details or context?

Short answer: it measured extremely well.
Longer answers can be gleaned over the past 148 pages of posts (which cover the great, the good, the bad, and the ugly).

 

[alexis]

Hi, I bought a Samsung Galaxy S7 tablet and use the bluetooth to connect to D90. The volume control from the tablet doesn't work with D90. D90 will play at the loudest setting. I can turn it off from the tablet. Is this an issue with D90 bluetooth?

So I further tested D90 and Lavaudio DS600 on Bluetooth connection volume control:

- iPhone works on both D90 and DS600
- Samsung Galaxy S7+ Android tablet only works on DS600, with D90 the volume will be in the maximum and I cannot adjust it on the tablet

Looks like this is an implementation issue with D90. Anyone has the similar issue?

 

[neukrisz]

Hi All,
I purchased finally my Topping D90 MQA. It has already the latest v1.24 FW version on board.
The USB source is a Lumin U1 Mini.
I'd like to use the LEEDH digital volume control of the Lumin because I don't have any preamp in the chain.
Unfortunately there is no MQA transmission when the Lumin's volume control is enabled (the signal is PCM instead of MQA). After I disable it, the MQA signals are OK.
This is really strange since my another MQA DAC working well in MQA mode with the Lumin's LEEDH attenuation. (SMSL M500)

I assume this is a firmware problem on the Topping side...
How can I ask the fix? Do you have any real contact to the Topping?

Thanks in advance!

 

[curiouspeter]

Hi All,
I purchased finally my Topping D90 MQA. It has already the latest v1.24 FW version on board.
The USB source is a Lumin U1 Mini.
I'd like to use the LEEDH digital volume control of the Lumin because I don't have any preamp in the chain.
Unfortunately there is no MQA transmission when the Lumin's volume control is enabled (the signal is PCM instead of MQA). After I disable it, the MQA signals are OK.
This is really strange since my another MQA DAC working well in MQA mode with the Lumin's LEEDH attenuation. (SMSL M500)

I assume this is a firmware problem on the Topping side...
How can I ask the fix? Do you have any real contact to the Topping?

Thanks in advance!

I don't see how MQA decoding can possibly work unless the input is bit perfect.

Are you sure you did not do the first unfold somewhere else before sending it to the M500?

 

[Nicolaas]

Hi All,
I purchased finally my Topping D90 MQA. It has already the latest v1.24 FW version on board.
The USB source is a Lumin U1 Mini.
I'd like to use the LEEDH digital volume control of the Lumin because I don't have any preamp in the chain.
Unfortunately there is no MQA transmission when the Lumin's volume control is enabled (the signal is PCM instead of MQA). After I disable it, the MQA signals are OK.
This is really strange since my another MQA DAC working well in MQA mode with the Lumin's LEEDH attenuation. (SMSL M500)

I assume this is a firmware problem on the Topping side...
How can I ask the fix? Do you have any real contact to the Topping?

Thanks in advance!

Couldn't you use the D90 in pre-amp mode. Or does the D90 MQA not have the pre-amp mode?

 

[neukrisz]

I don't see how MQA decoding can possibly work unless the input is bit perfect.

Are you sure you did not do the first unfold somewhere else before sending it to the M500?

Yes, I'm pretty sure. This method working successfully with the SMSL M500.

Lumin U1 Mini (USB output, MQA passthrough or digital out, Tidal MQA source - Enabled and used LeedH Volume Control) -> SMSL M500 (Detected MQA up to 352kHz from Tidal) -> NuForce Ref.18 Monoblocks

 

[neukrisz]

Couldn't you use the D90 in pre-amp mode. Or does the D90 MQA not have the pre-amp mode?

Are you kidding? The pre-amp mode is just a joke in the D90. It's a crappy standard digital way - I don't want to use that at all.
The Lumin's LeedH digital method is an ultimate version of the digital attenuators which doesn't causes any loss in dynamic range.

 

[Buster Chestnut]

Are you kidding? The pre-amp mode is just a joke in the D90. It's a crappy standard digital way - I don't want to use that at all.
The Lumin's LeedH digital method is an ultimate version of the digital attenuators which doesn't causes any loss in dynamic range.

Maybe I should just let this be, but what exactly do you think you will lose using the D90 volume control? Seems like a strange assertion

 

[neukrisz]

Maybe I should just let this be, but what exactly do you think you will lose using the D90 volume control? Seems like a strange assertion

The D90 doesn't have real - high quality hardware volume control what is required on their level. I as an audio equipment developer know that well. Every standard and simple digital volume control (what is in the D90 too) has many many problems which are degrading the sound quality.
In the past I used relay switched resistor ladder for attenuation in the analogue path - this was the only one method (for me) which supplied the required high quality. Since the LeedH Processing was released and licenced/enabled in the Lumin streamers I'm using this with almost the same results - skipped the full pre-amp section (incl. extra XLR cables, etc).
The SMSL M500 and the Topping D90 MQA uses same USB hardware interface (XMOS XU216) - So I guess there's a firmware problem in the Topping side.
The volume control of LeedH Processing with MQA working well with the SMSL M500. (one of my favorite album from Tidal playing in 352kHz with any volume setting with the M500, while the D90 plays same tracks in 44.1kHz only)

 

[curiouspeter]

Couldn't you use the D90 in pre-amp mode. Or does the D90 MQA not have the pre-amp mode?

One thing to point out, the

Yes, I'm pretty sure. This method working successfully with the SMSL M500.

Lumin U1 Mini (USB output, MQA passthrough or digital out, Tidal MQA source - Enabled and used LeedH Volume Control) -> SMSL M500 (Detected MQA up to 352kHz from Tidal) -> NuForce Ref.18 Monoblocks

Are you sure the Lumin is doing Leedh processing with MQA passthrough? Or just sending volume command through USB HID?

I think the smsl can be volume-controlled through USB.

 

[Racheski]

The D90 doesn't have real - high quality hardware volume control what is required on their level. I as an audio equipment developer know that well. Every standard and simple digital volume control (what is in the D90 too) has many many problems which are degrading the sound quality.
In the past I used relay switched resistor ladder for attenuation in the analogue path - this was the only one method (for me) which supplied the required high quality. Since the LeedH Processing was released and licenced/enabled in the Lumin streamers I'm using this with almost the same results - skipped the full pre-amp section (incl. extra XLR cables, etc).
The SMSL M500 and the Topping D90 MQA uses same USB hardware interface (XMOS XU216) - So I guess there's a firmware problem in the Topping side.
The volume control of LeedH Processing with MQA working well with the SMSL M500. (one of my favorite album from Tidal playing in 352kHz with any volume setting with the M500, while the D90 plays same tracks in 44.1kHz only)

Are you a manufacturer? What brand?

 

[neukrisz]

One thing to point out, the

Are you sure the Lumin is doing Leedh processing with MQA passthrough? Or just sending volume command through USB HID?

I think the smsl can be volume-controlled through USB.

Yes, I'm sure that I'm using the Lumin's volume control (not the SMSL own crappy digital volume)

Are you a manufacturer? What brand?

Human Audio

 

[BDWoody]

The D90 doesn't have real - high quality hardware volume control what is required on their level. I as an audio equipment developer know that well. Every standard and simple digital volume control (what is in the D90 too) has many many problems which are degrading the sound quality.

Human Audio

As a general rule here, manufacturers trashing other manufacturers, particularly in review threads, isn't considered cool.

 

[curiouspeter]

Yes, I'm sure that I'm using the Lumin's volume control (not the SMSL own crappy digital volume)


Human Audio

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/lumin-mqa-settings/29401

Unless the M500 is doing something non-compliant I am still extremely doubtful it can authenticate and decode MQA after digital volume.

I don't have a D90 or an M500. I have a Gustard X16 and an iFi NEO iDSD. But MQA decoding requirements are the same.

Frankly, if I am to build another system I will get a networked DAC with proper Roon device volume, preferably on the analog side.

 

[Buster Chestnut]

The D90 doesn't have real - high quality hardware volume control what is required on their level. I as an audio equipment developer know that well. Every standard and simple digital volume control (what is in the D90 too) has many many problems which are degrading the sound quality.
In the past I used relay switched resistor ladder for attenuation in the analogue path - this was the only one method (for me) which supplied the required high quality. Since the LeedH Processing was released and licenced/enabled in the Lumin streamers I'm using this with almost the same results - skipped the full pre-amp section (incl. extra XLR cables, etc).
The SMSL M500 and the Topping D90 MQA uses same USB hardware interface (XMOS XU216) - So I guess there's a firmware problem in the Topping side.
The volume control of LeedH Processing with MQA working well with the SMSL M500. (one of my favorite album from Tidal playing in 352kHz with any volume setting with the M500, while the D90 plays same tracks in 44.1kHz only)

interesting, thanks for the reply.

i‘d be curious to understand the real world / observable differences. I can only offer my own experience, using a Gustard P26 pre amp, and I couldnt hear any differences using the P26 + D90 v D90 alone (using the built in volume control).

I no longer own either products, but found them both satisfactory. I actually went with the Topping D50s and use its digital volume control in my current l, more streamlined, configuration.

any insight from your perspective would be helpful to educate those of us who just do this for a hobby. Thanks.

 

[Nicolaas]

Are you kidding? The pre-amp mode is just a joke in the D90. It's a crappy standard digital way - I don't want to use that at all.
The Lumin's LeedH digital method is an ultimate version of the digital attenuators which doesn't causes any loss in dynamic range.

Oh I am sorry!
I thought I just learned at Audio Science Review that any perceived sound quality difference between the D90 in DAC mode and the D90 in pre-amp mode is only based on psychological bias!
I also learned that MQA is just a marketing gimmick so it's rather silly to use MQA from a scientific point of view.
But maybe I was wrongly informed here at ASR...