Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

[Oukkidoukki]

So.... what about rme adi-2? Is this leedh better there too?.......and if the volume is full is it then as good as dac mode in d90?

 

[neukrisz]

So.... what about rme adi-2? Is this leedh better there too?.......and if the volume is full is it then as good as dac mode in d90?

I didn't hear the RME ADI-2 yet, but AFAIK there is no hardware volume control on it nor LeedH Processing too.
Yes, when the volume is set to 100% in D90 or M500 (or every DAC which has simple digital volume control the given I2S signal entering the DAC chip is bit-perfect, so their SQ is the highest - but if it has option for disable the volume control that is the best way)

 

[Oukkidoukki]

Ok

 

[BDWoody]

any insight from your perspective would be helpful to educate those of us who just do this for a hobby.

If you want actual answers based on the reality that we currently know of, @JohnYang1997 will be a better option.

But maybe I was wrongly informed here at ASR...

No, you got it right.

 

[Buster Chestnut]

If you want actual answers based on the reality that we currently know of, @JohnYang1997 will be a better option.

sure, but John didn’t make the assertion.

I’ve A/B’d using a quality resistor-based pre and the D90 digital volume control, and I can’t hear any difference whatsoever.

 

[BDWoody]

sure, but John didn’t make the assertion.

I’ve A/B’d using a quality resistor-based pre and the D90 digital volume control, and I can’t hear any difference whatsoever.

Fair enough,
I just wanted to make sure we weren't overvaluing the input from someone who sells $700+/m Spdif cables, along with 'similar' hardware.

 

[Nicolaas]

sure, but John didn’t make the assertion.

I’ve A/B’d using a quality resistor-based pre and the D90 digital volume control, and I can’t hear any difference whatsoever.

Actually I did the same comparison (however not in a very scientific way) and could not decide which was the better way. So I use the D90 volume control and also with the advantage of remote control!

 

[ARAJO]

Does anyone know if the D90 is capacitor or transformer coupled ?

 

[pLudio]

Yes, when the volume is set to 100% in D90 or M500 (or every DAC which has simple digital volume control the given I2S signal entering the DAC chip is bit-perfect, so their SQ is the highest - but if it has option for disable the volume control that is the best way)

The volume control is done inside the AK4499 chip (DATT in the block diagram), after I2S.

 

[Nicolaas]

Are you kidding? The pre-amp mode is just a joke in the D90. It's a crappy standard digital way - I don't want to use that at all.
The Lumin's LeedH digital method is an ultimate version of the digital attenuators which doesn't causes any loss in dynamic range.

It seems a bit of a contradiction to me: on one hand you are looking for THE perfect volume control and on the other hand you are perfectly happy with lossy MQA. Probably the marketing guys got a grip on you!

 

[nimar]

Speaking of the pre-amp, anyone know if there's been any effort to get a Topping DAC Roon certified? AFAIK its just a matter of the manufacturer sending Roon a sample / Roon seeing if it can do what it needs to do to meet their spec and bang, you get a nice little Icon and possibly the ability for Roon to control the devices volume. Or else some required software changes to meet their spec.

At the very least, worth going through the trouble for their flagship DAC (D90). Would help distinguish it as a premium product.

 

[curiouspeter]

Speaking of the pre-amp, anyone know if there's been any effort to get a Topping DAC Roon certified? AFAIK its just a matter of the manufacturer sending Roon a sample / Roon seeing if it can do what it needs to do to meet their spec and bang, you get a nice little Icon and possibly the ability for Roon to control the devices volume. Or else some required software changes to meet their spec.

At the very least, worth going through the trouble for their flagship DAC (D90). Would help distinguish it as a premium product.

Unless it is Roon Ready (networked using RAAT) it makes no difference.

Roon also enforces proper volume control.

 

[Pluto]

What's...

proper volume control

then?

 

[nimar]

Unless it is Roon Ready (networked using RAAT) it makes no difference.

Roon also enforces proper volume control.

I was under the vague impression that even USB DAC's could be certified to work with Roon Bridge. The HiFiBerry is certified, its just a sound card to the Pi, as long as the volume control can be done via the USB interface you'd imagine it should be doable.

Edit. Also my > 7 year old audiolab dac did this, it has a physical volume button that can control the usb volume on the computer and vice versa.

 

[curiouspeter]

What's...

then?

For example, if analog volume is available it should be used.

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/better-volume-control/126279/19

If not at least the best available will be used. I want to be able to walk up to the DAC, reduce volume, and bring it back up using the Roon Remote later.

 

[curiouspeter]

I was under the vague impression that even USB DAC's could be certified to work with Roon Bridge. The HiFiBerry is certified, its just a sound card to the Pi, as long as the volume control can be done via the USB interface you'd imagine it should be doable.

True.

But Roon Device Volume does not even work with some DACs. Fixed or DSP volume must be used.

Ideally, it will controlled a relayed resistor ladder.

 

[nimar]

True.

But Roon Device Volume does not even work with some DACs. Fixed or DSP volume must be used.

Ideally, it will controlled a relayed resistor ladder.

*shrugs* 32bit digital volume control is pretty decent, any degradation is lower than what your amps / speakers / room are doing and unlikely audible even if all three of those were perfect.

Looks like they used to maintain a list of DACs that supported USB volume, but its since changed. https://community.roonlabs.com/t/usb-volume-controllable-in-roon/31143/5?u=sbr

Ah well, one can dream. The D90 and the rest of the Topping line sound amazing, but the UX is definitely lacking. I suppose that's what happens when all you have are great engineers, and they do the UX. The biggest fault of the D90 is the human interface. **

1. There's no way to really tell if it's playing and my amp's are off. Not a huge deal.
2. My old audio lab dac allowed you to program a default input which it would return to after being power cycled.
3.With the D90 I need to scroll between multiple options to switch between the TV (optical) and the streamer (usb). Being able to disable inputs I don't use from the default list would mostly solve that.

** This is not just a topping thing, its true for all the well priced, high value products. Lower costs come from somewhere.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

Good list. May I add another to it?

1. There's no way to really tell if it's playing and my amp's are off. Not a huge deal.
2. My old audio lab dac allowed you to program a default input which it would return to after being power cycled.
3.With the D90 I need to scroll between multiple options to switch between the TV (optical) and the streamer (usb). Being able to disable inputs I don't use from the default list would mostly solve that.

4. In DAC mode, pushing either of the volume buttons mutes / unmutes instead of doing nothing (for ability to rapidly turn off volume)

 

[auronthas]

3.With the D90 I need to scroll between multiple options to switch between the TV (optical) and the streamer (usb). Being able to disable inputs I don't use from the default list would mostly solve that.

D90 automatically sense 'digital' signal of optical or USB. For example, when i turn off streamer(USB), and i turn on TV/TV box/soundbar, it automatically swith from USB to Optical without remotely control or manual touch the button.

 

[nimar]

D90 automatically sense 'digital' signal of optical or USB. For example, when i turn off streamer(USB), and i turn on TV/TV box/soundbar, it automatically swith from USB to Optical without remotely control or manual touch the button.

This doesn't successfully work, the streamer never goes off, and it doesn't seem to distinguish between playing/not playing correctly. Perhaps if things were to go fully off / on it would.

As an aside, Auto ON/OFF doesn't seem to work as advertised either, perhaps because of the above issue with not being able to tell when its playing/not.