Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

[Oldbigears]

I have not yet done any direct comparisons with listening tests, but I have been enjoying listening to the D-90. I would suggest that anyone doing listening tests of DACs do so with rigorous level matching, as I find the actual audible differences between good and great DACs can be very small. I do level matched comparisons by the following procedure:

First, choose one track for the comparison. This track should be well recorded, with at least some acoustic instruments, and some well recorded voice. Also, a track with good imaging helps as well. Make sure there are some acoustic high frequency instruments like cymbals and/or bells/chimes. And some deep low frequencies with details, like large drums, well recorded synth bass, and well recorded acoustic bass.
Play the track on DAC #1, and decide on a good reference level. Then play a pink noise track and measure the output of the DAC with an AC volt meter. Now play the pink noise on DAC #2 and adjust its level with the pink noise track to match that of DAC #1. (This method assumes using the volume controls in the DAC, if using a preamp, you will have to make a note of the correct volume setting which produces equal measured output from each DAC). Now make your comparisons, never touching the volume controls with the reference track. I prefer not to do "blind" testing, but I know folks on this forum would demand that you also test blind. If you would like to test blind, I would suggest first testing sighted, and learning as much as you can about the sonic differences first, and then go forward with blinded testing for confirmation (or not). I find testing blind introduces a stress factor which makes deep listening more challenging, but some appear to have overcome these difficulties-I prefer to train myself to be immune to biases rather than trying to overcome the induced stress of blinded testing, to each his own, but I suspect I will not post any results here of listening tests which are sighted, as the level of forum noise will rise with such testing, obscuring any real observations.

Anyone else have any tips on doing listening tests for DACs?

Sure, I stick on something cool - tonight that happens to be Kadace Springs - maybe dim the lights, get a nice glass of Sancerre - and relax, while I listen to the music. If it sounds great, it's good. WTF else should I do?

 

[Oldbigears]

Yes this DAC can perform well as a high-end DAC in a high-end system. There are a couple of objective and subjective reasons for this:

• Amir's measurements show that this DAC measures as well (or better) as other high-end DACs.
• The Sinad score of this DAC is in the top together with high end DACs.
• Amir also measured a PS Audio 'Perfect wave Direct stream' DAC (around $6000). As far as I know PS Audio is considered a 'high end' audio equipment manufacturer. But..... the D90 has a much better Sinad score (in the top) than the PS Audio (bottom level). Also in the audio tests the PS Audio does not sound good at all according to Amir. The D90 comes highly recommended, the PS Audio is not recommended at all.
• Subjective: A friend of mine has a high end system with Spectral amplifiers and Avalon speakers. He has 2 DACS. We listened to all the DACs via a PC (highly optimized for audio) via usb with Audirvana and Roon:
  • DAC 1: DCS Bartok (around $12000). Considered a very high end and well respected DAC. Compared with the D90 there were almost no audible differences. We thought we heard some tiny differences in soundstage (D90 was a bit more holographic). Bartok was a tiny bit more refined in the high frequencies. But this could just as well be our imagination, a difference in gain or our own bias.
  • DAC 2: Metrum Acoustics Pavane (around $5000). Also a DAC in the 'high end' realm. With the D90 we thought we heard a little bit more detail and separation between the instruments. Again highly subjective. Maybe a difference in gain or bias from our side. Or maybe what we heard was true (and the D90 simply is better because it measures better). No way to know that for sure.

To make a long story short:

- The Bartok is around 17 times more expensive than the D90. The D90 measures probably as well or better than the Bartok and there are almost no audible differences. As far as I know the Bartok is not measured on this site, but there are some subjective reviews on this forum.

- The Pavane is around 7 times more expensive than the D90. The D90 (in our subjective ears) sounded a little bit better than the Pavane. As far as I know there are no measurements of the Pavane on this site, but it wouldn't surprise me if the D90 measures better.

- The $6000 PS Audio is seemingly no match at all for the D90, sound wise and measurement wise. Of course, I can't confirm that, because I never owned or heard a PS Audio DAC, but Amir's review seems to indicate that.

USB is always better than spdif and toslink on any DAC (because of the limitations of toslink and spdif). On the D90 spdif and toslink still sounds very good, but USB is better.

Conclusion:
The D90 sounds as good (or better) as 'high end' DACs and measures as good (or better) as high end DACS, so it must be a high end DAC

PS.
Your English is fine (I am not a native English speaker as well).

I believe this website has already made the case that most DAC's sound exactly the same, right? All you should pay more for is extra features, if you need them. Just buy the cheapest. Same for cables, amplifiers, speakers, everything really. All hi-fi is "high-end", with a few notable failures, apparently. Did I miss something?

 

[Oldbigears]

My D90 just died. Just stopped playing music, and after switching it off doesn't even want to switch on again.

I was running it it on my desktop computer. It didn't even make it into my hi-man system. Oh well.

So take it back to the dealer?

 

[AndyLu]

My D90 just died. Just stopped playing music, and after switching it off doesn't even want to switch on again.

I was running it it on my desktop computer. It didn't even make it into my hi-man system. Oh well.

Sorry to hear that, but it is still under warranty, so luckily it is not the end of the world. Mine is around 4 months old and is still working great (knock on wood). How long did you have yours?

 

[elberoth]

Bought it locally, so there should not be a problem with replacement.

 

[lazybonesxp]

And you also have a SMS200 / Ultra?

No. I play music from my PC via HQPlayer.
BTW, I've just updated the driver and it looks like the issue disappeared. But I am not sure for 100%, because it appears randomly.

 

[Hemi-Demon]

You could try 44.1 x 16 ----> 705.6khz PCM..

I use HQPlayer to upsample from 44.1khz to DSD512.. but I couldn't get 48k x 512 working for D90.
I settled to use 44.1k x 512 (22.5792Mhz) eventually.

Let me try 768khz pcm tonight.. and let you know if its stable.

I just tried this and it worked fine on my end, HQPlayer Pro 4, Topping D90, ASIO, 4.82 driver, revision 1.06, buffer size 32768, safe mode

Settings 1). PCM ASRMC (or poly-sin-xlr-mp) 768K 32 hz no noise
2). SDM(DSD) poly-sinc-xlr-mp AMSDM7 512+fs 44.1KX512 no noise, I too CANT get a 48Kx 512 output using the latest topping drivers..

Just trying to help. Why in the world is HQPLayer so darn complicated to use

 

[Veri]

Why in the world is HQPLayer so darn complicated to use

I never got into it because of this. Installed and was like, "what is this interface?", I don't think it's intuitive at all.
Maybe it's smoother if you interface it through Roon. But since I don't have Roon I wouldn't know..

 

[tellsapfel]

No. I play music from my PC via HQPlayer.
BTW, I've just updated the driver and it looks like the issue disappeared. But I am not sure for 100%, because it appears randomly.

Can you do me a favour and run it for several hours (perhaps over night)? As you say it seems to be random. Two days ago it worked for about 4 hour, yesterday the distortion started after a minute.

 

[lazybonesxp]

Can you do me a favour and run it for several hours (perhaps over night)? As you say it seems to be random. Two days ago it worked for about 4 hour, yesterday the distortion started after a minute.

Ok, I'll do it tomorrow and I hope that the new driver solved this problem. Otherwise, I'll write to support. It is not a very big problem, but it is annoying (

 

[JohnnyNG]

That's exactly what I mean. As long as the digital attenuation is not large enough to reveal the DAC's noise floor, there is nothing to worry about.

Which in a modern 32-bit DAC is pretty much a non-issue I love digital attenuation!

Silly question on my D90 but I don't know how digital attention works. If I use it while listening to a 16-bit file, am I losing resolution off of 16 bits or 32 bits? Maybe the wrong way to look at it...

 

[bennetng]

Silly question on my D90 but I don't know how digital attention works. If I use it while listening to a 16-bit file, am I losing resolution off of 16 bits or 32 bits? Maybe the wrong way to look at it...

Try these links:
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/06/guest-post-why-we-should-use-software.html
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...depth-should-i-set-my-dac-to.8956/post-255104

 

[Veri]

Silly question on my D90 but I don't know how digital attention works. If I use it while listening to a 16-bit file, am I losing resolution off of 16 bits or 32 bits? Maybe the wrong way to look at it...

As long as your device is used on 24-bit mode, your 16-bit file is padded with 8 bits which can do all the digital attenuation, losslessly.

 

[JohnnyNG]

Thank you both!

As long as your device is used on 24-bit mode, your 16-bit file is padded with 8 bits which can do all the digital attenuation, losslessly.

Sorry, which device would that be? I don't see a way to change that on D90. Feeding it via coax from a Squeezebox Touch.

 

[Veri]

Thank you both!
Sorry, which device would that be? I don't see a way to change that on D90. Feeding it via coax from a Squeezebox Touch.

Oh then your source needs to be 24-bit in its output mode. Which should be possible in its configuration.

 

[Pluto]

Help needed...

Any idea or similar observations?

Is the DAC connected via USB or other? I would be inclined to try known, predictable software such as Foobar using its WASAPI add-on, playing audio sourced from the local disk. This kind of thing smacks of a timing issue i.e. something not quite able to keep up. Also, make sure that the audio interface is operating in exclusive mode, which is the responsibility of the player application, as another possible cause of an issue like this is some other audio trying to get a look-in.

 

[JohnnyNG]

Oh then your source needs to be 24-bit in its output mode. Which should be possible in its configuration.

Got it. Looks like the Squeezebox just passes through what's sent.

 

[Veri]

Got it. Looks like the Squeezebox just passes through what's sent.

Well, even attenuating 16-bit audio, unless you go to very low levels with very low volume material (think classical) I don't think you will hear any bad side effect. I've played with older 16-bit DACs and it's usually not a problem unless in said extreme cases. I wouldn't worry.

 

[diehardcat]

Hi,
Does this unit have dual AK4499 or one? Thx!

 

[Mikechw]

One... 4499