Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

[tellsapfel]

Is the DAC connected via USB or other? I would be inclined to try known, predictable software such as Foobar using its WASAPI add-on, playing audio sourced from the local disk. This kind of thing smacks of a timing issue i.e. something not quite able to keep up. Also, make sure that the audio interface is operating in exclusive mode, which is the responsibility of the player application, as another possible cause of an issue like this is some other audio trying to get a look-in.

I use a SMS 200 with USB. I don´t have a windows notebook.

 

[Pluto]

Sorry, I have no idea what an SMS 200 is. Assuming it's some kind of specialist player that costs considerably more than a simple Windows computer, it is likely (but not certain) that the underlying approach is Linux of some kind. Other than that it's you and the distributor/maker of the kit, as without knowing what's going on within the box and how the various bits of hardware and software play together, further diagnosis is tricky.

In a closed source world you are largely at the mercy of the manufacturer's chosen approach to customer service

 

[AndyLu]

Sorry, I have no idea what an SMS 200 is. Assuming it's some kind of specialist player that costs considerably more than a simple Windows computer, it is likely (but not certain) that the underlying approach is Linux of some kind. Other than that it's you and the distributor/maker of the kit, as without knowing what's going on within the box and how the various bits of hardware and software play together, further diagnosis is tricky.

In a closed source world you are largely at the mercy of the manufacturer's chosen approach to customer service

I found this, and you are right: It is a Linux box with a Roon endpoint:

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/sotm-sms-200-review-r648/

 

[Tks]

Hi,
Does this unit have dual AK4499 or one? Thx!

One

 

[tellsapfel]

Ok, I'll do it tomorrow and I hope that the new driver solved this problem. Otherwise, I'll write to support. It is not a very big problem, but it is annoying (

How did it go?

 

[lazybonesxp]

How did it go?

The issue happened a few times, but every time It played something from my network storage. It never happened with local files on my internal SSD.
Maybe it is not a bug of the D90....

 

[Zmix]

I am looking for the owners manual for the Topping D90, but cannot find it online, if anyone has a link, please let me know.

Barring that, I am simply trying to determine if the output level of the XLR and RCA Phono outputs are independently adjustable, and if the levels are retained after the unit is power cycled.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I am looking for the owners manual for the Topping D90, but cannot find it online, if anyone has a line, please let me know.

Barring that, I am simply trying to determine if the output level of the XLR and RCA Phono outputs are independently adjustable, and if the levels are retained after the unit is power cycled.

As far as I know, the level of two outputs are not independently adjustable. The level is retained after the unit is power cycled.

 

[Mikechw]

I am looking for the owners manual for the Topping D90, but cannot find it online, if anyone has a line, please let me know.

Barring that, I am simply trying to determine if the output level of the XLR and RCA Phono outputs are independently adjustable, and if the levels are retained after the unit is power cycled.

http://www.tpdz.net/newsinfo/371566.html

 

[tellsapfel]

The issue happened a few times, but every time It played something from my network storage. It never happened with local files on my internal SSD.
Maybe it is not a bug of the D90....

I think it is the combination of the source and the dac. I have it also on local files played from the nas.

Perhaps others who have the dac can tell us what their signal chain is and if 768 Khz works for them.

Interesting. I now realized that i like the sound better without upsampling. It sounds more euphonic / sweet with upsampling but not so realistic. I thought external upsampling is better cause the dac itself might not to it as well. But i don´t know if it is the upsampling itself that causes the different sound character or if the dsp of roon might be the cause.

 

[lazybonesxp]

I think it is the combination of the source and the dac. I have it also on local files played from the nas.

Perhaps others who have the dac can tell us what their signal chain is and if 768 Khz works for them.

Interesting. I now realized that i like the sound better without upsampling. It sounds more euphonic / sweet with upsampling but not so realistic. I thought external upsampling is better cause the dac itself might not to it as well. But i don´t know if it is the upsampling itself that causes the different sound character or if the dsp of roon might be the cause.

You can't listen without upsampling with this DAC. You can only choose if you'll upsample source on PC or using internal DAC's filters.
For me, upsampling in HQPlayer is definitely better. Also, I can choose the method of upsampling (i prefer sincM or poly-sinc-long-lp).
Also, it is interesting to upsample to DSD format. By this, you can avoid internal delta-sigma modulation in DAC-mode.

Maybe ROON uses not so good algorithms?

 

[Pluto]

if 768 Khz works for them.

I did say, a few days ago...

...this kind of thing smacks of a timing issue i.e. something not quite able to keep up.

and your symptoms clearly sound like a synchronization issue. Three quarters of a MHz is a bloody silly sampling rate for PCM and I suggest you forget about such ludicrous number-chasing upsampling and let your D90 do the job it was designed for!!

 

[Zmix]

http://www.tpdz.net/newsinfo/371566.html

Thank you very much..!

 

[tellsapfel]

You can't listen without upsampling with this DAC. You can only choose if you'll upsample source on PC or using internal DAC's filters.
For me, upsampling in HQPlayer is definitely better. Also, I can choose the method of upsampling (i prefer sincM or poly-sinc-long-lp).
Also, it is interesting to upsample to DSD format. By this, you can avoid internal delta-sigma modulation in DAC-mode.

Maybe ROON uses not so good algorithms?

You can't listen without upsampling with this DAC. You can only choose if you'll upsample source on PC or using internal DAC's filters.
For me, upsampling in HQPlayer is definitely better. Also, I can choose the method of upsampling (i prefer sincM or poly-sinc-long-lp).
Also, it is interesting to upsample to DSD format. By this, you can avoid internal delta-sigma modulation in DAC-mode.

Maybe ROON uses not so good algorithms?

Tested HQ-Player now with different settings. Also PCM -> DSD. I can understand why some like the sound. It sounds "nice", finer and a little bit euphonic - but not to the extend of roon. But to me the sound is far from realistic. At least with classical music. I have a piano in the same room. HQ-Player removes (to me) the body of an instrument. The wooden character, sometimes the aggressiveness in a piano, violin, ... seems gone.

 

[BDWoody]

It sounds "nice", finer and a little bit euphonic

How did you do your testing? Or, are these simply impressions from just switching back and forth...

What do you mean when you say a little bit euphonic?

 

[lazybonesxp]

Tested HQ-Player now with different settings. Also PCM -> DSD. I can understand why some like the sound. It sounds "nice", finer and a little bit euphonic - but not to the extend of roon. But to me the sound is far from realistic. At least with classical music. I have a piano in the same room. HQ-Player removes (to me) the body of an instrument. The wooden character, sometimes the aggressiveness in a piano, violin, ... seems gone.

Sounds interesting. I'll compare them again. What mode of DF do you use?

 

[tellsapfel]

Sounds interesting. I'll compare them again. What mode of DF do you use?

poly-sinc-xtr-mp and sync-m (Dither: ls15, 384kHz). The difference seems minimal to me. At least in few hours i've tried them. Not even sure if i could hear a difference at all between the 2.

I test by listening to serveral classical tracks and then switch. Also, at least in roon, i have the option to switch upsampling on / off many times by clicking on the upsample switch without looking. So i don't know if it is on or off.

Not sure how to describe an euphonic sound. Perhaps with the words,:not harsh, melting, smooth

 

[Mikechw]

Well, I bought and installed a RTX2080 super graphic card to my i9-9900K PC today..
Trying out HQPlayer with ADM7EC modulator, DSD512.... (44.1x256),
none of the sampling filters work...
So I am pretty sure for the EC modulator, no PC is fast enough for DSD512...

The highest demanding setup that works on my PC is:

poly-sinc-xtr-mp, ASDM7EC, 44.1kx256...

GPU load percentage is around 35%, when its upsampling from 44.1k hz PCM to DSD256...

 

[barrows]

Well, I bought and installed a RTX2080 super graphic card to my i9-9900K PC today..
Trying out HQPlayer with ADM7EC modulator, DSD512.... (44.1x256),
none of the sampling filters work...
So I am pretty sure for the EC modulator, no PC is fast enough for DSD512...

The highest demanding setup that works on my PC is:

poly-sinc-xtr-mp, ASDM7EC, 44.1kx256...

GPU load percentage is around 35%, when its upsampling from 44.1k hz PCM to DSD256...

It is well known that no processor currently available can do DSD 512 with the EC modulators in HQP. But, no need to fear, because the AKM DAC chip does better with DSD 256 than it does with DSD 512. This is right in the data sheet for the AKM 4499. So best performance with this DAC chip is at DSD 256, not 512. This is likely because the switching elements in the chip are not fast enough for the higher rate of 512. In fact, Andreas Koch has mentioned a few times in interviews that he believes DSD rates above 256 are a bad idea, because no switching devices are fast enough to remain fully linear at this rate.
I no longer have the D-90 here (sold it), but I preferred it with DSD 256 inout from Roon (linear phase filter, precise, 7th order CLANS modulator) with the D-90 in "direct DSD" mode (aka "DAC" mode in the set up menu).

BTW, the poster above is not correct when saying D-90 does not run in a non-oversampling mode, in DSD direct there is no oversampling. But there is not a non-oversampling mode for PCM input.

 

[Mikechw]

It is well known that no processor currently available can do DSD 512 with the EC modulators in HQP. But, no need to fear, because the AKM DAC chip does better with DSD 256 than it does with DSD 512. This is right in the data sheet for the AKM 4499. So best performance with this DAC chip is at DSD 256, not 512. This is likely because the switching elements in the chip are not fast enough for the higher rate of 512. In fact, Andreas Koch has mentioned a few times in interviews that he believes DSD rates above 256 are a bad idea, because no switching devices are fast enough to remain fully linear at this rate.
I no longer have the D-90 here (sold it), but I preferred it with DSD 256 inout from Roon (linear phase filter, precise, 7th order CLANS modulator) with the D-90 in "direct DSD" mode (aka "DAC" mode in the set up menu).

BTW, the poster above is not correct when saying D-90 does not run in a non-oversampling mode, in DSD direct there is no oversampling. But there is not a non-oversampling mode for PCM input.

Thanks for the detailed info.. I have also read the datasheet of AK4499 and it does state that it has better (lower) noise level at DSD256.
I will try out Roon's linear phase filter when I have time.