The IMD vs level plot basically shows it. As we know IMD and THD goes hand in hand, the monotonically decrease showed the distortion component doesn't increase with level.
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Topping D30Pro Review (Balanced DAC)
- Thread starter amirm
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Maybe AKM and TI DACs are more prone to this. The output opamps can also screw up full scale behavior. At least some of the CS43131/198 DACs work without an output op amp. Maybe the D30 Pro is also direct out?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-imd-distortion-audio-measurements-png.55218/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-imd-distortion-audio-measurements-png.55218/
It's depending on implementation like I said. Good implementation shouldn't have distortion too high up at 0dB. Lower end chips like 4493 is still having this but generally mild. 4499 can already have -140dB harmonics at 0dBFS. So there's basically no more room for it to decrease.
Ti are older chips much much older chips. And that's still implementation dependent. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...a-dac-8-balanced-dac-review.14608/post-451838
UD 501 already has low harmonics 0dB pretty much as good as 4493.
AnalogSteph
Major Contributor
RME ADI-2 Pro FS?
BTW, a first draft for my DAC history blog post is up now. Now I'll have to dig up the post(s) where I was discussing ADC evolution previously...
curiouspeter
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Did I order the Gustard X16 too early? This one is probably cheaper.
teadrinker
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I think the measurements are impressive, but the market is becoming oversaturated with products that are all basically the same: a USB B input with (un)balanced outputs. The cheapness of the chip gives Topping an opportunity to create an innovative product that would have a much broader appeal than this. I know that lots of college students want a good, cheap DAC + Analog amplifier that they can use to listen to both music from computers and their vintage equipment. It would be one box that you could buy for your dorm room and use both to listen to music on your headphones while studying and power your speakers during a party. You can even connect an LP player on Tape deck.
Instead of the D30pro, I wish Topping would create a product with this:
Rear Inputs: USB - B 2.0, Phono, and RCA
Rear Outputs: Speaker Binding Post + Dual Subwoofer jacks
Front: A switch to select between DAC, Phono, and RCA Input, a volume knob, 1/4 TRS headphone jack (with an adapter to a 3.5mm in the box), switch to turn speakers on/off, and screen.
Instead of the D30pro, I wish Topping would create a product with this:
Rear Inputs: USB - B 2.0, Phono, and RCA
Rear Outputs: Speaker Binding Post + Dual Subwoofer jacks
Front: A switch to select between DAC, Phono, and RCA Input, a volume knob, 1/4 TRS headphone jack (with an adapter to a 3.5mm in the box), switch to turn speakers on/off, and screen.
curiouspeter
Addicted to Fun and Learning
There is the PS Sprout 100 and the Sonos Amp. The later is also a streamer.
Dual sub is hard. The Sonos had that but you will have to buy two expensive Sonos Subs.
Veri
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That is essentially.. a totally different product.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #309
You could look for that in the SMPTE IMD vs Level.
It serves the same purpose albeit with two tones and not one.
I recall apart from AK5394A, some Asus soundcards also used CS5381... In the era of Creative vs Asus RMAA wars good ADCs on consumer soundcards are essential.
Thanks. You may have the TI DACs wrong. Didn't double check but I am pretty sure that the PCM1792 and 1794 are the same thing, just for µC vs parallel control. The PCM1795 and 1796 are a lower spec version, basically they use an oversampling filter with poorer stop band attenuation. The 96 differs from the 95 in that it accepts 32 bit data. There is some discussion on diyaudio with an engineer from TI who argued that in some pretty arcane measurement, they found that the 95 was actually capable of 24.5 bit performance, so they created the 96. Onkyo used the 96 in its top of the line AVRs (e.g. TX-NR 5008 as opposed to 3008 which used the 95) but the difference is largely academic.
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Is there a particular reason you want to focus only on delta sigma in your dac IC history list?
AnalogSteph
Major Contributor
Whoops, corrected.
Actually, it seems to be the other way round, and the 1795 is the newer DAC accepting 32-bit data. Must have been the in thing for 2009.
I thought it would be getting too messy with them being too dependent on external factors (digital filter, trimming, output stage etc.). I've thrown a bunch of Burr-Browns in there now, it wasn't actually too bad.
yeah to me the 1702 and 1704 where solid performers for their time, I stll to this day listen to my cd´s trough the dual 1702 of the sony cdp-d500 player, always had a thing for it even if I have a more accurate DAC. works well, was a reference in the CD era
Yes, forgot about that. Eyeing your table, two things pop out:
- Actual implementations of ES 9012 and 9018 do not usually live up to the data sheet claim of - 120 dB THD+N, and it might well be due to the external circuitry.
- The AD1955 has pretty much the best specs aside from the ESS chips. Do we have x555-based measurements of an implementation?
Are you planning to add the current crop, i.e. AK4490, 4493, 4499, ES 9028 and 9038, CS31131/198?
AnalogSteph
Major Contributor
As a sneak peak, you could get some of the Monoprice RCA --> XLR cables which should cost you about 34 dB less... I don't generally trust the combination of 3-pin IEC power jack and RCA inputs (as seen on the SP200) very much. Do you hear any ground loop noises when turning up the volume?
I don't think most people need a DAC in this class - just for listening, you could probably spend 6 dB less for a Schiit Modius or similar or ~10 dB less for a trusty Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Gen3 and be just as happy, just as long as it's got balanced out and performs at least decently with some half-decent output level, so maybe not a Behringer UMC202HD. (Topping's upcoming little DAC would be more than fine, too.) I mean, you've got a volume control in the signal path, so even your worst-case dynamic range required may only be on the order of 110 dB, and probably 100 tops at normal volumes. DR requirements for a pure line-level DAC just aren't all that severe, otherwise people wouldn't have been happy with CD players.
If you buy a DAC that performs like the D30 Pro, you'll do it because it's darn good and you have the money. You can still do better on features and flexibility (various nifty RME ADI-2 DAC FS functions come to mind, if at like +8 dB on the price tag), but certainly not on converter performance per se.
Wouldn't be the first time. If you want to get super low noise out of it, your output stage has to work pretty hard, which is detrimental to distortion performance, and maxing out both may require some extreme measures. The folks who design the analog stages in these chips have my utmost respect.
Might not be the worst idea, I'm most of the way there anyway. I was already considering the AK4490. Give it some time, this took up a substantial part of my day as-is.
edit: just realised this is going to be some D10 s or pro or something. Half the characters on that page do not get displayed, and auto-translate does not work.
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What you saw was the D10S. The upcoming one is called D10 Pro or D10 Balanced or something like that.
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It looks like it might use 1/4" trs to xlr in the picture. I have not seen anything like this before. If it's a good why option why don't we see other companies using this type of output?
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