• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Topping D30Pro Review (Balanced DAC)

AudioSceptic

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 31, 2019
Messages
2,736
Likes
2,628
Location
Northampton, UK
It is a very expensive banana holder: https://smile.amazon.com/BenQ-Reading-LED-Desk-Lamp/dp/B0178HLTXO/ref=sr_1_28?ie=UTF8&qid=1512271689&sr=8-28&keywords=desk+lamp+warm+light&refinements=p_72:2661618011

71XfJu8vTHL._AC_SL1500_.jpg


It is a wonderful light with both hue and brightness controls. I would be lost without it, literally! :)
A C21 AnglePoise! :)
 

VeerK

Active Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
258
Likes
318
Location
NYC
I was pleasantly surprised by the video review, hope you do more of them Amir. That being said, very disappointed you’re not actually a Geisha with panthers on a shelf in the background
 

Helicopter

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
2,693
Likes
3,945
Location
Michigan
FWIW I thought your presentation looked very real and natural. Please keep it that way.
Agree. I didn't notice the 'uhms' until I read the comments here. I think Amir can simply keep that in mind a bit and skip the editing in order to keep productivity up. Other 'influencers' edit them out, but I'm not sure Amir needs to. He is enough of an expert that his comments come very naturally.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,663
Likes
240,999
Location
Seattle Area
Agree. I didn't notice the 'uhms' until I read the comments here. I think Amir can simply keep that in mind a bit and skip the editing in order to keep productivity up.
The ums drove me nuts after I watched it. :) Was not aware of it at all while doing the video. And yes, having to edit would be a killer and reduce the number I can do by a large factor.
 

MZKM

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
4,250
Likes
11,556
Location
Land O’ Lakes, FL
The ums drove me nuts after I watched it. :) Was not aware of it at all while doing the video. And yes, having to edit would be a killer and reduce the number I can do by a large factor.
I was surprised to see that PowerPoint has a feature where it will record you presenting and analyze how many times you used filler words, if you swore, your pace per slide, how verbatim you presented each slide, and how monotone your speech is.

As a math teacher, during this school year I am making video lessons, and it takes a good number of takes to get each lesson right. I don’t go into editing clips together, but I will delete out parts that I pause for a while.
 
Last edited:

Dogen

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
362
Likes
615
Location
Durham, NC USA
Great little DAC! I do hope Topping tackles speaker amps at this level of performance, and multichannel would be great. They’d have the segment to themselves for those interested in quality.
 

jfree77

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 17, 2019
Messages
22
Likes
58
The ums drove me nuts after I watched it. :) Was not aware of it at all while doing the video. And yes, having to edit would be a killer and reduce the number I can do by a large factor.

honestly I wouldn't sweat it at all. Very few ums and filler words. Didn't detract from the video at all.

Lean towards more output as opposed to editing out perfectly-normal speech patterns. It'll be better for your channel in the long run (and I'm kind of an expert here).

Only things I would add would be a few more camera angles to show the device more directly and more standardized structure (like "ok it's time for this graph" or "it's time to see the device up close" or whatever) so repeat viewers know what to expect. The latter will come naturally with more videos.
 

Toku

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 4, 2018
Messages
2,433
Likes
2,834
Location
Japan
I was pleasantly surprised by the video review, hope you do more of them Amir. That being said, very disappointed you’re not actually a Geisha with panthers on a shelf in the background
The banner photo of amirm is not a geisha. The photo is a classic Japanese bride costume. Japanese women still enjoy this classic style in addition to Western wedding dresses.
 

EchoChamber

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
May 22, 2020
Messages
673
Likes
925
Nice video @amirm ! I just subscribed to your channel! You’re a youtuber now! ;-)
 
Last edited:

chris719

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2019
Messages
373
Likes
423
It's the apparent inconsistency too. Here's an example, Motu M2 review:

View attachment 111686
The Motu is the only D/A product reviewed so far (as far as I know) that has exhibited proper response in its LPF.

This Topping is a joke in that respect and should be called for what it is.

Topping has nothing to do with this. The Cirrus CS43198 has built in filters and can’t even accept data from an external interpolation filter. Every DAC chip manufacturer uses this 24 kHz marketing stopband figure. The ESS or whatever in the Motu is an outlier. It’s also pretty insignificant.
 
Last edited:

jdizzle

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Messages
26
Likes
27
Beautiful! It has everything I need, great to see this new perfect machine made just for me being released
I didn't see any word on release dates on this post? I know it's clearly not confirmed yet but just curious for people who are familiar with Topping - are we talking in the next week or two or more like a Summer release?
 

chris719

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2019
Messages
373
Likes
423
The fact these manufacturers insist on this kind of filtering has always been odd to me though. As in, 'Why'.
Velvet sound.....?

It’s because they want the passband to be flat to 20.0 kHz @ 44.1 kHz Fs and can’t / won’t design a filter with enough taps to be into the stopband by Fs/2. If you notice, almost all are -3 dB at 0.49*Fs. Passband is almost always flat to 0.454*Fs which is 20.021 kHz @ 44.1.

I don’t know which manufacturer started it, but ALL of them do it, starting way back in the day with TI and Analog Devices.

There’s really no issue here on the DAC side. On the ADC side, there can be aliasing as a result.

Some here should think harder about why it matters that we be in the stopband at exactly Fs/2 of the original sample rate when the destination (interpolated) rate is 8x that. The only thing you gain is possibly chopping off some garbage if the ADC had a poor filter in it.
 

chris719

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2019
Messages
373
Likes
423
I've always thought Cirrus was a 2nd tier DAC chip.

That’s not really true. Maybe their converters weren’t as good as TI or AD at some point in the 90s, but they have been consistently good since the sigma delta revolution. AKM historically started out as a cheaper alternative to Cirrus. CS4398 and CS5381 are still quite competitive parts despite being ancient.

Cirrus hasn’t been as visible in the consumer / audiophile nonsense spec war that ESS fueled. They sell and design custom parts for volume players including Apple. Their R&D is mainly in low power / mobile applications because that’s where the money and real progress is to be made.

If they can design this chip with its excellent performance and very low power consumption, I’m quite sure they could choose to put out a higher power part that is the equivalent to if not better than the 9038PRO and AK4499. As JohnYang1997 mentioned, this part competes with the mobile parts like the Q2M.
 

AnalogSteph

Major Contributor
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
3,391
Likes
3,339
Location
.de
t’s because they want the passband to be flat to 20.0 kHz @ 44.1 kHz Fs and can’t / won’t design a filter with enough taps to be into the stopband by Fs/2. If you notice, almost all are -3 dB at 0.49*Fs. Passband is almost always flat to 0.454*Fs which is 20.021 kHz @ 44.1.

I don’t know which manufacturer started it, but ALL of them do it, starting way back in the day with TI and Analog Devices.

There’s really no issue here on the DAC side. On the ADC side, there can be aliasing as a result.
If memory serves these are called half-band filters, and there must be substantial computational advantage associated with this approach for it to be as popular as it is. Last time I saw the additional choice of a "correct" filter, that had a fair bit more periodic passband ripple than the "normal" ones. If you can get better-behaved in-band characteristics and/or lower latency for a bit of aliasing up top where nothing much tends to happen anyway, that seems pretty compelling.

BTW, maybe check out the CS5396 vs. CS5397 datasheet - these were basically the same chip but one with a "normal" filter (for audio) and the other with a "correct" one (for measurement).

Some here should think harder about why it matters that we be in the stopband at exactly Fs/2 of the original sample rate when the destination (interpolated) rate is 8x that. The only thing you gain is possibly chopping off some garbage if the ADC had a poor filter in it.
This I think was what Bruno Putzeys has referred to as the "burnt steak" approach. I'll have to dig out that presentation again.

If you happen to be overly fussed by these issues, they're nothing that a bit of oversampling and software SRC couldn't fix.

BTW, Crystal (later Cirrus Logic) had one of the first delta-sigma DACs with effective switched capacitor lowpass filtering in about 1993-ish (CS4328 I think it was). Philips had used some before in their SAA7350 - TDA1547 platform but it was only partially switched capacitor and partially conventional, so effectiveness in terms of jitter suppression wasn't as great. There was a discussion of this in The Audio Critic back in the day.

I think for a while up to the mid-'90s or so Crystal and AKM had some sort of cross-licensing agreement or other IP sharing, at least their CS5389 and CS5390 era ADCs seem to have been pretty much interchangeable. Their paths seem to have split after this, with AKM releasing the AK5391 in '96 and their last 48-kHz-only flagship ADC (AK5392) in '97 while just a few weeks earlier that same year Crystal had already made the jump to 96 kHz (CS5396). Must have been a bummer for AKM. Not sure why they were putting off the transition to double speed so long anyway, the writing was definitely on the wall by this point.

There is relatively little doubt that in the late '90s the CS5396 was about the best audio ADC chip you could buy (Benchmark used it at the time). They never really won that crown back after being overtaken by the AK5394A, which continued to define SOTA ADC chip performance for over a decade, and continued to play a good second fiddle. (The CS5381 is "close but no cigar" terrain but still a good part in its own right. It's what the Behringer 2496s have switched to after the old AK5393 was retired, nice upgrade there.) There was very little wrong with the CS4398 DAC either, it even has some headroom for intersample-overs. One peculiarity of theirs was using partially IIR (minimal phase) filters when everyone also was all FIR (linear phase). I think this has gotten way more common now.
 
Last edited:

Rottmannash

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
2,986
Likes
2,633
Location
Nashville
I see. Wondering if Topping had a hunch the factory was going to burn down or they picked a non-AKM chip after it already did.
Same chips my Hiby R5 uses.
 

Rottmannash

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
2,986
Likes
2,633
Location
Nashville
I'm wondering if Topping will also make a comparable little DAC with ESS chipset?

BTW, who downvoted his video!
Someone from SBAF?
 
Top Bottom