• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Top 3 hi-fi brands (and "honorable mentions")

Feanor

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
382
Likes
497
Location
southwestern Ontario
Uh huh.

You missed mentioning the extra refulgence of the Hypex, as well as its obsequious character. There's a purplish coloration in the midrange of the Pass amps which can often bring out a bluesy quality in orchestral textures, as well as their saucer-like upper midrange.

Perhaps with more experience and better wires you might be able to pick up on these subtleties.
SIY, my dear fellow, perhaps you should develop a regular habit of listening to amplifiers, not just measuring, then you might mock less ...

Then again maybe not. Perhaps you would believe that you hear no differences. After all, your confirmation bias would dismiss the findings of your ears as imaginary
 

SIY

Grand Contributor
Technical Expert
Joined
Apr 6, 2018
Messages
10,511
Likes
25,350
Location
Alfred, NY
SIY, my dear fellow, perhaps you should develop a regular habit of listening to amplifiers, not just measuring, then you might mock less ...

Then again maybe not. Perhaps you would believe that you hear no differences. After all, your confirmation bias would dismiss the findings of your ears as imaginary
I find reality far more interesting than fantasy.
 

Willem

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
3,727
Likes
5,357
Feanor, why don't you come up with evidence of those alleged sonic differences, i.e. properly conducted double blind near instantaneous and level matched listening tests? There have been quite a few of those, and in the ones that I know of or even participated in, no evidence was ever found.
 

Feanor

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
382
Likes
497
Location
southwestern Ontario
Feanor, why don't you come up with evidence of those alleged sonic differences, i.e. properly conducted double blind near instantaneous and level matched listening tests? There have been quite a few of those, and in the ones that I know of or even participated in, no evidence was ever found.
I'm not sure I know how I would conduct these blind tests; I have know at home who would be competent to do the necessary swaps.

However after listening for a prolonged duration to familiar music I am convinced of what I hear. I don't need to "prove" it to myself. And If I did conduct controlled tests, that demonstrated that I hear difference, would you trust my results?
 

Willem

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
3,727
Likes
5,357
would you trust my results?
If the methodology was correct, yes of course. I am skeptical, however, since your result would completely at odds with all existing data. By the way, listening for extended periods to just one unit is precisely wrong. These tests should be done with short excerps and near-instantaneous switch over. And blind, of course. Mind you, we are not reinventing the wheel here or probing the frontiers of knowledge: there is an extensive quantity of research on both the methodology and the results.
 

Feanor

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
382
Likes
497
Location
southwestern Ontario
If the methodology was correct, yes of course. I am skeptical, however, since your result would completely at odds with all existing data. By the way, listening for extended periods to just one unit is precisely wrong. These tests should be done with short excerps and near-instantaneous switch over. And blind, of course. Mind you, we are not reinventing the wheel here or probing the frontiers of knowledge: there is an extensive quantity of research on both the methodology and the results.
I used to do short excerpt listening, albeit not blind. I didn't find it more reliable than extended listening. Not "scientific" of course, but I put this down to the very short term nature of sound memory, and the tendency to focus to much on minute aspects of the sound. Extended listening allows me to gather a better overall impression of the sound, and also to memorize the characteristics of that sound. so when I go to listen to another component I am better able to formulated a valid comparison.
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,205
Likes
16,938
Location
Central Fl
However after listening for a prolonged duration to familiar music I am convinced of what I hear. I don't need to "prove" it to myself. And If I did conduct controlled tests, that demonstrated that I hear difference, would you trust my results?
A Song For You Mr Fantasy
 

Lorenzo74

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
343
Likes
311
Location
Italy, Rome
What is in your opinion the top 3 brands in hi-fi ?

Here is my list:
1. Benchmark Media Systems (world-class performance, competitive price, comes in nice and small boxes, user-friendly gear, honest brand, anti-BS brand, outstanding customer service).
2. Revel Speakers (amazing performance, competitive price).
3. KEF (amazing performance, competitive price (must probably exclude the Muon)).

Honorable mentions (in random order):
RPG Acoustical Systems, Vicoustic and other manufactures of acoustic products,
Bang & Olufsen (for their Beolab 90 and Beolab 50),
NAD (great performance at an affordable price),
Cambridge Audio (very affordable price although the performance is great),
PSB Audio,
Sennheiser,
Pioneer,
RHA Audio,
and many more.

There are several brands that I know very little of (and therefore are not given a chance), but which my "intuition" says are great, including:
Genelec (seems like a serious brand),
and more.
It seems you completly ignored the contribution to hifi of Clever engineers as Bruno Putzeys, he was a game changer.

I don’t question your “hit parade”, it’s based on your own preference.
however Purifi-Hypex are next to benchmark and kii three, D&D are ahead by far any legacy=XX century passive speakers.
my Best
Lorenzo
 
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Messages
56
Likes
233
Welllll...

For me, what brand is the least full of crap? Alas, not a one. :( Yeah, I'd like to say that Brand X never spewed bullshit but they all do! For this reason, I am not a brand fanboi for anything be it cars, power tools, computers and the worst of them all--audio equipment. I wish I could turn my brain off....just default to a brand for anything but once you have been violated up the tailpipe prison prom night style--even an idiot like me learns.

Some of my friends will copy the brands I use but the times and models have changed. Never assume the brand you purchase today will be the same in the future when you need customer service. Plenty of brands make crap, it is up to you to do the research for the specific gizmo you need at that point in time. People crow about Brand X being amazing for 20 years and yet, my clock radio is over 20 years old and has been abused for the entire time--even thrown across the room! Plenty of expensie audo equipment bit the dust at far younger levels than that $30 clock radio!

The point should be least likely to screw you over but what is the point? It makes about as much sense as "future proofing"....really? Realistically, most audio companies are assemblers--they don't make the parts inside. OK, Samsung, Sony and Yamaha maybe but it is not like Benchmark has their own foundry to build the parts. They are all dependent on the parts chain and if some manufacturer screws up a part, then that audio company is left holding the end result. Ask Onkyo about that one! Some companies get screwed by their parts suppliers, the fake capacitor drama from 2003 comes to mind. Yeah, millions of motherboards failed because of bad capacitors which happens--Asus figured it out and recalled their stuff. Dell figured it out and attempted to ignore it--consumers are stupid, right? Well, maybe...but everyone that purchases computers was not a consumer and heads rolled.

McIntosh used to be "above it all" but they have to eat also... their BS level has been steadily increasing over the years which is a sad thing. Retro sells, ask Harley Davidson about that! Oh yeah, it sells until it don't and the market can and will flip on you. My biggest issue with McIntosh is they have embraced the audiophile consumer--in direct violation of what they were in the first half of their history. I get it, have to make a profit but once you are viewed as a company that makes large VU meters and retro equipment--now you need to push the fad VS pushing technology.

Anyone else? Well, that is obvious by measuring the gizmo--then look at their full line. I'd love to say that Brand X of 1999 is still the same Brand X of 2020 but it is not. It can't be because the parts have changed, the vendors for the parts have changed so the end result is completely different. I tend to look for equipment that runs cooler as that extends the life of the capacitors, chips and limits heat/cool cycling of the boards. To help it along, I use 8 ohm speakers that generally don't dip below 6 ohms and are very efficient so no need for hundreds of watts to get my desired SPL. My AVR runs slightly warm to the touch at reference--no worries about clipping, power compression and all that so it should be very reliable. I said "should" because dookie happens but at least I optimize it's environment.

Being a brand fanboi with any brand for anything is basically being lazy. There ya go! Trust me, I'd love to stick with a brand for almost anything but was burned with toys, bicycles, tools. motorcycles, boomboxes and shoes--and that was when I was a teenager. However, I am a lazy human so I tend to default to actual measurements to determine what something does. ASR makes my butt big because I can merrily read about and look at the test results for all sorts of gear without moving around. Pretty cool, he even takes things apart so we can see the magic inside. This way I can narrow things down quickly because I know the specs I want equipment to meet so pass/fail is in less than 60 seconds.

Once I narrow it down to the top 3, then I look for reliability, customer service, recalls and how the manufacturer handles them, manufacturer BS level in their advertising and if there are common problems recently in their gear. This is 2020 so I have haulted purchasing any electronics, you can bet your butt that many manufacturers have used "alternate sources" for their parts because of the logistics disruption. Paranoid? No, if you think about the situation they are in it is at the point of staying in business. I highly doubt any major manufactuer would delay shipping a product for 2 months for one part--they would probably get an alternate to remain viable. I know I would! Sure, it is a chance but such is the world we live.

I was going to build some new surround speakers this year--have half the parts BC (Before Corona) I cancelled the build until next year because of supply chain disruptions. Figure by next summer things should be more stable as it does seem to be improving. Took that funding and moved up some home improvements that needed to get done. My wife likes it, no more audio crapola rolling in and the new roof looks good! The surround project sits undone but she now is picking out what color to paint the house. Gee, those gutters need to be replaced and... I do need to replace that power tool now to get it done and...

In summation, I really am not a die hard fan of any audio company. This year has proven to be challenging for any manufacturer so unless you have to purchase electronics gear--I'd avoid it until the supply chains get close to normal. If Denon made a bad alternate part swap, you know everyone else has issues as standard parts tun into a box of chocolates. Nothing personal, just business as my pals on the set of the Sopranoes would say. :D On the positive side, the corona thing does point to companies that did it right but that takes time to get into focus. It is just me but there were a lot of announcements of gear that was about to become available....and it never did. Some companies did not relase their latest and greatest as blaming the virus went viral. This can be a good thing, it gave them more time for testing, modifying the design, re-testing and so on. No point in pushing something new when the market is unstable--it might lead to some very good things without teething issues because of more R&D and beta testing time.

Good things come to those that wait? In this case--a solid maybe! My magic 8 ball does not help.
 

q3cpma

Major Contributor
Joined
May 22, 2019
Messages
3,060
Likes
4,418
Location
France
Hard to say which is best. It'd be easy to just pick Neumann and Genelec, but they have the advantage of operating in an environment where quality is rewarded and pandering to lobotomised audiophiles isn't (completely) needed. If Revel or KEF were completely free of their buyers' tantrums, who know how good they could get?
Still a Genelec fanboy, though critical enough to say that their subs are overpriced and GLM could be better.

No need to mention D&D, Kii or GGNTKT, right? I mean, these are a given, since they're the ones going forward in Hi-Fi.


Honorable mention goes to ME Geithain for its bigger models.
 
Last edited:

Pearljam5000

Master Contributor
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
5,237
Likes
5,475
I vote for Genelec too :p
They're just such a hardcore and no nonsense company, it's all about the science, sound and reliability.
I would also say the subs are overpriced but that's OK lol.
 

Zog

Active Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
255
Likes
290
I found the Pass Labs X150.5 to be a superbly balanced amp. It had excellent resolution and transparency and dynamics while a the same time delivering a slightly "warm", listenable presentation. What I dislike most about it was the long, 30-40 minute warm-up before it sounded its best, and the 200 watt idle power usage -- in don't know if the .8 version is better in these respects..

Said transparency and dynamics were not, however, as good as either the Purifi or Hypex MP. But the Pass was definitely more listenable than the Purifi.
Feanor, The X150.8 requires a minimum of 45 minutes warm up. However I leave it on standby. I have not noticed an increase in my monthly power bill, though there must be some.
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,205
Likes
16,938
Location
Central Fl
Feanor, The X150.8 requires a minimum of 45 minutes warm up. However I leave it on standby. I have not noticed an increase in my monthly power bill, though there must be some.
Why is that? What properties of it's amplification over that time period varies to make a audible change? FR, THD, SINAD. etc. Please present the measured changes to support these claims.
 

MDAguy

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 26, 2020
Messages
404
Likes
405
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
How are we ranking this list? Top 3 by sales volume? top 3 for bang for the buck? top 3 for absolute best, price not an issue?

Me..?

Dan D'Agostino, Accuphase, and dCS... honorable mention list would fill two pages..
 

Zog

Active Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
255
Likes
290
Why is that? What properties of it's amplification over that time period varies to make a audible change? FR, THD, SINAD. etc. Please present the measured changes to support these claims.
No
 

mansr

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 5, 2018
Messages
4,685
Likes
10,705
Location
Hampshire
Why is that? What properties of it's amplification over that time period varies to make a audible change? FR, THD, SINAD. etc. Please present the measured changes to support these claims.
Measurable changes occurring over a warm-up period of 30-60 minutes is nothing unusual. Audibility is another matter, of course, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility.
 

Laughing Rabbit

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 31, 2021
Messages
12
Likes
6
Location
Greenville, South Carolina
Top of my list would be Pass Labs. They only make amplifiers and preamps. They deliver superbly listenable amps, not the lowest distortion by any means, but a excellent balance of transparency, dynamics, and listenably -- all at crazy-high prices, granted.

I owned a Pass Labs X150.5 for a number of years. Didn't have the resolution of my current Purifi but was a lot more enjoyable to listen to.
A lot more enjoyable to listen to...in what way? What speakers? Thanks...I have an X250.5 with Vandersteens...
 
OP
sprellemannen

sprellemannen

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
260
Likes
557
Benchmark, Revel, Genelec.
Now, nearly 5 years later, my favourites are the same.

Sennheiser headphones and Neumann and KEF speakers are great also. If I was to buy bookshelf speakers, I would buy Genelec or Neumann.

The biggest change in these years are maybe that several Chinese brands are offering DACs and amplifiers with great measurements at a seemingly very cheap price, but reliability and customer service seems to frequently be an issue for several of their products.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom