This guy sure loves Audio Note!

[Mnyb]

Imho its their marketing that infuriating ? The sell as their stuff is something magical only achieved by esoteric knowledge, that’s one part . It’s even worse when they also claim that everything else is somehow wrong such as feedback transistors etc and this is then obvious to a real audiophile but can’t be measured

If they just sold thier equipment as “we like how they sound and they are handmade in smal numbers” and we will charge this $$$ for it, and be happy, but no they must spread thier fud/story about how everything else is wrong and only they can truly make hifi equipment.

They been around for a while and can obviously run a company handle warranty etc and keep dealers and customers happy enough.

 

[Purité Audio]

PQ has dealers!
Keith

 

[fpitas]

Imho its their marketing that infuriating ? The sell as their stuff is something magical only achieved by esoteric knowledge, that’s one part . It’s even worse when they also claim that everything else is somehow wrong such as feedback transistors etc and this is then obvious to a real audiophile but can’t be measured

If they just sold thier equipment as “we like how they sound and they are handmade in smal numbers” and we will charge this $$$ for it, and be happy, but no they must spread thier fud/story about how everything else is wrong and only they can truly make hifi equipment.

They been around for a while and can obviously run a company handle warranty etc and keep dealers and customers happy enough.

I bet their sales guys know their market, and it's technically illiterate "audiophiles" wanting to distinguish themselves from the unwashed herd (that's us!).

 

[Mart68]

I bet their sales guys know their market, and it's technically illiterate "audiophiles" wanting to distinguish themselves from the unwashed herd (that's us!).

same with any high end brand. I mean from the wealthy punter's point of view why have all that money when it can't buy you a better experience than some schmuck working in a warehouse can get? So they have to push all the mystical stuff, that's exactly what he wants to hear.

 

[egellings]

You don't like the West Coast sound?

I'm very sophisticated: I prefer the east coast frown. Bulging muscles are unsightly, too. Suit & tie always are a must, too. Hork!
About Hork: A shout of derision from a grandpa bullfrog.

 

[MattHooper]

Imho its their marketing that infuriating ? The sell as their stuff is something magical only achieved by esoteric knowledge, that’s one part . It’s even worse when they also claim that everything else is somehow wrong such as feedback transistors etc and this is then obvious to a real audiophile but can’t be measured

That's one of the things that gets me about so many claims by manufacturers, especially "high end" amp manufacturers, and especially tube amp manufacturers.

There always seems to be some technical-sounding claim as to why they have gone with their design - for instance "going for a simpler design, eschewing some of the parts normally 'in the way of the sound' in other amplifiers," or using no feedback or bragging about pure silver wound transformers or whatever. The claim is that, even if making their choice might bring possible liabilities, nonetheless these esoteric approaches are supposed to reap SOME technical dividend that makes it all worth it. Which is the point in the first place.

And yet whenever I've seen amps like this measured, usually in Stereophile, it seems to be "all liability" and no reward. You can see the various ways the amps become inaccurate and distort, but nothing in the measurements apparently pointing to some obvious gain that would suggest higher fidelity or a "more pure signal" etc. They just simply seem to measure more wonky than more traditional amplifier designs.

(And that includes my own silly tube amplifiers...)

 

[Matias]

One of their amplifiers was measured below.

Audio Note Meishu Tonmeister Phono integrated amplifier Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I performed the measurements of the Audio Note Meishu Phono Tonmeister with my Audio Precision SYS2722 system. The tubes were already installed when I received the review sample. I removed the cover to check for proper installation. All was well. I waited for 30 minutes...

www.stereophile.com

 

[Ro808]

It's quite remarkable that a thread like this evokes reactions on this "science oriented" forum.

Although I'm familiar with audio science, I feel no need to preach to those "blinded by science".

Fortunately, experienced professionals also post here who know what really matters and what doesn't/less.

 

[lewdish]

It's great that Audio Note offers components. The price of some of the stuff is elusive. Aside from that I wish Audio Note did a better job with the EVGA sound card and the Pro version of it.

For a sound card isnt it quite good actually?

 

[Doodski]

For a sound card isnt it quite good actually?

Yes, they are fantastic and have a good AD converter too. It was tested here at ASR and did OK.

Review and Measurements of EVGA NU Audio PC Card

This is a review and detailed measurements of the EVGA NU Audio PC Audio card. It includes stereo output, stereo mic and line in, in addition to headphone output. This is a collaboration with UK audio company Audio Note so expectations are high as far as its performance. As it should be as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

EVGA NU Audio Pro Review (Internal Sound Card)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the EVGA NU Audio Pro 7.1 Surround DAC, headphone amplifier and ADC. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me. It costs US $300 on Amazon including free shipping. I like the slick coloring and logo: But I hate, hate, hate...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[MattHooper]

I have to say, there's a lot of pricing in high end audio that feels like manufacturers one upping themselves in a dare to see who can price the highest.

But for sheer audacity in this regard, perhaps cables aside, it's hard to beat Audio Note. They sell essentially the same model of that Two-way speaker, but charge more as they add different wiring materials, then voice coils etc. At the apex of their upgrade pricing structure you reach the notorious Audio AN-E Sogon model at $165,000 / pair:

Audio Note AN-E/Sogon Speaker

In my never-ending quest for audio and video products with the highest possible performance, style, and/or price, I came across the AN-E/Sogon from British maker Audio Note and distributed in the US by Audio Federation.

www.soundandvision.com

And that's in 2010 dollars! I wonder what the price is now.

I swear, even if I were rich, if a dealer presented me with those speakers and told me that price with a straight face it would be such an insult to my intelligence that he may as well have called my mom a whore.

 

[egellings]

I have to say, there's a lot of pricing in high end audio that feels like manufacturers one upping themselves in a dare to see who can price the highest.

But for sheer audacity in this regard, perhaps cables aside, it's hard to beat Audio Note. They sell essentially the same model of that Two-way speaker, but charge more as they add different wiring materials, then voice coils etc. At the apex of their upgrade pricing structure you reach the notorious Audio AN-E Sogon model at $165,000 / pair:

Audio Note AN-E/Sogon Speaker

In my never-ending quest for audio and video products with the highest possible performance, style, and/or price, I came across the AN-E/Sogon from British maker Audio Note and distributed in the US by Audio Federation.

www.soundandvision.com

And that's in 2010 dollars! I wonder what the price is now.

I swear, even if I were rich, if a dealer presented me with those speakers and told me that price with a straight face it would be such an insult to my intelligence that he may as well have called my mom a whore.

Get a coupla pair for the kids!

 

[CHenry]

Get a coupla pair for the kids!

And another for the yacht.

All that wiring voodoo for what appear to be a decent pair of two-way Harbeths, at a price over an order of magnitude greater. Baltic birch is a premium material, mainly for its legacy uses and the continuing specification for the BBC monitors. Outside of the high-end traditional British box speaker makers, you don't see it much anymore. Klipsch used it when their "Heritage" models were all they made. Even the other stratospehrically-priced makers don't seem to have a pricing structure so closely related to the choice of conductor material. 40 lbs of silver metal per each of two crossover boxes comes to $27K for silver alone. ("Could I have something without so much Spam?".) As far as Stereophile's admiration, they are generous if not vague with drive-by praise. They have nice veneer choices, though.

 

[fpitas]

It's quite remarkable that a thread like this evokes reactions on this "science oriented" forum.

Although I'm familiar with audio science, I feel no need to preach to those "blinded by science".

Fortunately, experienced professionals also post here who know what really matters and what doesn't/less.

It is a pity there are no other electronics engineers here.

 

[jsrtheta]

And another for the yacht.!

All that wiring voodoo for what appear to be a decent pair of two-way Harbeths, at a price over an order of magnitude greater. Baltic birch is a premium material, mainly for its legacy uses and the continuing specification for the BBC monitors. Outside of the high-end traditional British box speaker makers, you don't see it much anymore. Klipsch used it when their "Heritage" models were all they made. Even the other stratospehrically-priced makers don't seem to have a pricing structure so closely related to the choice of conductor material. 40 lbs of silver metal per each of two crossover boxes comes to $27K for silver alone. ("Could I have something without so much Spam?".) As far as Stereophile's admiration, they are generous if not vague with drive-by praise. They have nice veneer choices, though.

Most guitarists know that Brazilian rosewood is the best material for fingerboards. But because of its decimation by manufacturers, it is now illegal to export.

Many materials makers wish to use are getting quite expensive. Some, like Brazilian rosewood, are off-limits. And I wonder how many materials are used not because they are necessary for good sound, but because "ooh, they're the best!" Really? You can tell?

Please.

 

[CHenry]

Most guitarists know that Brazilian rosewood is the best material for fingerboards. But because of its decimation by manufacturers, it is now illegal to export.

Many materials makers wish to use are getting quite expensive. Some, like Brazilian rosewood, are off-limits. And I wonder how many materials are used not because they are necessary for good sound, but because "ooh, they're the best!" Really? You can tell?

Please.

I am not certain I understand you. If you are thinking I am criticizing Audio Note's (or anyone's) choice of use of Baltic birch plywood for a cabinet base, I'm not. If you are questioning whether I believe the makers chose the material because of their belief in it's superior qualities as a panel material, I do. (Why use it otherwise? Why use it in the far less expensive Falcon BBC monitors?) As for the decisions by other builders of high quality speakers not to use Baltic birch plywood, I have to believe that the decision is based on material and construction costs relative to performance and how the maker believes that will affect salability of the product. As for rare wood species, CITES prohibits harvesting of many prized heritage instrument wood species. They are not available in new products anymore. (I have not heard of restrictions on trade of legacy wooden articles as there is, for example with ivory, where certification of the trade article must show it to be 100 years old or older.) Cabinet veneers are of course decorative, but still important to buyers for aesthetic reasons. The choices Audio Note offers are extensive and include some more expensive species, but none are restricted. Are they the "best?" I don't know how you can say. In natural veneers, no one sheet even from the same tree is exactly the same as another. Is one species "better" than another, yew, for instance better than rosewood or quilted maple? Except for personal preference, unanswerable.

 

[Mart68]

They use Baltic birch because it's widely touted as the best material to make speakers from and so helps justify the astronomical price.

Audiophiles expect it at this price level along with exotic internal wiring and crossover components. Use chipboard or mdf and they'll start to smell a rat.

 

[jsrtheta]

I am not certain I understand you. If you are thinking I am criticizing Audio Note's (or anyone's) choice of use of Baltic birch plywood for a cabinet base, I'm not. If you are questioning whether I believe the makers chose the material because of their belief in it's superior qualities as a panel material, I do. (Why use it otherwise? Why use it in the far less expensive Falcon BBC monitors?) As for the decisions by other builders of high quality speakers not to use Baltic birch plywood, I have to believe that the decision is based on material and construction costs relative to performance and how the maker believes that will affect salability of the product. As for rare wood species, CITES prohibits harvesting of many prized heritage instrument wood species. They are not available in new products anymore. (I have not heard of restrictions on trade of legacy wooden articles as there is, for example with ivory, where certification of the trade article must show it to be 100 years old or older.) Cabinet veneers are of course decorative, but still important to buyers for aesthetic reasons. The choices Audio Note offers are extensive and include some more expensive species, but none are restricted. Are they the "best?" I don't know how you can say. In natural veneers, no one sheet even from the same tree is exactly the same as another. Is one species "better" than another, yew, for instance better than rosewood or quilted maple? Except for personal preference, unanswerable.

I am not certain I understand you. If you are thinking I am criticizing Audio Note's (or anyone's) choice of use of Baltic birch plywood for a cabinet base, I'm not. If you are questioning whether I believe the makers chose the material because of their belief in it's superior qualities as a panel material, I do. (Why use it otherwise? Why use it in the far less expensive Falcon BBC monitors?) As for the decisions by other builders of high quality speakers not to use Baltic birch plywood, I have to believe that the decision is based on material and construction costs relative to performance and how the maker believes that will affect salability of the product. As for rare wood species, CITES prohibits harvesting of many prized heritage instrument wood species. They are not available in new products anymore. (I have not heard of restrictions on trade of legacy wooden articles as there is, for example with ivory, where certification of the trade article must show it to be 100 years old or older.) Cabinet veneers are of course decorative, but still important to buyers for aesthetic reasons. The choices Audio Note offers are extensive and include some more expensive species, but none are restricted. Are they the "best?" I don't know how you can say. In natural veneers, no one sheet even from the same tree is exactly the same as another. Is one species "better" than another, yew, for instance better than rosewood or quilted maple? Except for personal preference, unanswerable.

Oh look there goes the point!

As for Brazilian rosewood, I trust the judgment of guitarists, thank you. They do it for a living.

My point, though, is, quite frankly, we don't have the right to deplete precious resources. I grew up in a state that damned near eliminated multiple whale species from the North Atlantic.

 

[CHenry]

Oh look there goes the point!

As for Brazilian rosewood, I trust the judgment of guitarists, thank you. They do it for a living.

My point, though, is, quite frankly, we don't have the right to deplete precious resources. I grew up in a state that damned near eliminated multiple whale species from the North Atlantic.

I don't think anyone is arguing that point. Birch trees are not endangered, as a species. Veneer woods vary in rarity, but the sale of veneers from protected species is prohibited. Some veneers are expensive not because the trees are rare, but because producing sheets suitable for even modest-sized articles like speaker cabinets is difficult, especially if your design requirements call for book-matching or mirroring the veneer on one speaker with its paired cabinet, as Klipsch does. That just can't be practically done with some species of trees. Selected grain features, e.g. birdseye maple, pippy oak, spalts, burls are similarly difficult to source in quantity but the species themselves are not endangered.

 

[CHenry]

They use Baltic birch because it's widely touted as the best material to make speakers from and so helps justify the astronomical price.

Audiophiles expect it at this price level along with exotic internal wiring and crossover components. Use chipboard or mdf and they'll start to smell a rat.

It is the first step up their "feature" ladder from their base unit which is veneered chip board with a black ash finish. The birch model is more expensive, but not ridiculously so. As for getting things like an alnico driver, you apparently only get that at their top end, along with the eighty pounds of silver. For comparison, small makers like Omega Speaker Systems also offer alnico magnet drivers at their top end, which is considerably lower in price to Audio Note.

I suspect that if the alnico driver was available as a standalone upgrade option, most Audio Note buyers would stop at the second-to-the-bottom model with an upgrade veneer and call it done.