• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

The wealth-building thread

I was not like you but I was good at wasting it (cars: they were usually older (vintage/classic beater hot rods that cost me $500 a year [that was an extremely high one] to insure & $20 a year in taxes), keeping money in the bank: I did not keep more than about $5K, if there was more than $2.5K, it was time to take a trip or find some other way to enjoy spending it. Investments: you can't have fun doing that. Credit cards: well, you can have 3 with $25K available and as long as you can make the payments, run them out to at least 75% spent (save a little space just in case you want to go somewhere else). The cards where 90% used to travel, so nothing to show for using them [my interest rates did not exceed 7%]). But I owned NOTHING except old cars.
My lifestyle, I never thought I would make it past 45 (& that the credit card companies would be left holding the rather big bag) & I was 100% not marriage material. Bachelor with no kids (that I know of).
Then, at 46, I found a woman in Saipan that I deemed worthy of me straightening up for& who, after 2 years of me being mostly straightened up, accepted that I may yet make mistakes but was definitely on the correct path & had been on it for a couple of years and would likely stay that way.
Anything that we now have is since I married her.
I paid off $76K of credit cards off (she through in $20K towards the end & $35K on our first condo) & we went from there.
Now I am 68 & we are debt free.
It's been a Long, Strange Trip but we've made it this far.
Although I was car-crazy as a kid through much of my 30s, I somehow never got too crazy about buying them, maybe because I was equally obsessed with high-end audio and the burgeoning world of personal computing :p. And I guess expenditures in the latter really did amount to an "investment in my future" of sorts.
 
What I'm more concerned about is new families trying to find affordable housing.
In a recession the cost housing drops dramatically and real estate in general. For those who are getting their 4% are going able to buy at discount on everything including the S&P 500. Preserving ones potential down payment with a fixed return means they don't have wait to earn it back over years. If that table is correct on average they have earned 40% compared to their competitive buyers.
 
In a recession the cost housing drops dramatically and real estate in general. For those who are getting their 4% are going able to buy at discount on everything including the S&P 500. Preserving ones potential down payment with a fixed return means they don't have wait to earn it back over years. If that table is correct on average they have earned 40% compared to their competitive buyers.

It sounds like you may be younger or not have much experience with Real Estate in the USA? I have owned property for the last 50 years. What I found was location, location, location was the determining factor for appreciation. In 99% of the economic downturn's since 1970 prices on real property didn't fall much at all. Price could stagnate for periods but you didn't see major price drops. So if you are betting on large property discounts you're going to need a war in the USA.

The only time I saw prices drop significantly was after Lehman filed for bankruptcy Sept 15, 2008. Two weeks later on Sept 25, 2008 the FDIC swooped in and took over Washington Mutual making their shareholders paper worthless. The FDIC gave WAMU which was worth 46 billion at the end of 2006 to JP Morgan for a mere 1.9 billion. The acquisition ultimately allowed JPMorgan to expand its consumer banking footprint significantly, making it the largest U.S. depository institution with over $900 billion in deposits and more than 5,400 branches. While the immediate financial impact included costs and markdowns, the long-term strategic benefits and expansion of market presence were viewed as creating substantial value for JPMorgan Chase.

Between Sept 2008 and Sept 2009 many homes were valued lower than their mortgage. We hadn't seen anything like this since the Great Depression. Everyone previously saw houses as a stable investment. Those that ignored the noise and bought homes during that time did very well. Many of those that participated in the feast were publicly traded companies. All the homes that were lost by owners who sold during that period are now in strong financial hands and the pendulum has completely reversed. If you expect the Real Estate market to fall significantly again, that's a long shot. About the best you can expect is slower price increases. The government learned a lesson on Lehman. Don't expect that again soon. :cool:
 
Last edited:
It sounds like you may be younger or not have much experience with Real Estate in the USA? I have owned property for the last 50 years. What I found was location, location, location was the determining factor for appreciation. In 99% of the economic downturn's since 1970 prices on real property didn't fall much at all. Price could stagnate for periods but you didn't see major price drops. So if you are betting on large property discounts you're going to need a war in the USA.

The only time I saw prices drop significantly was after Lehman filed for bankruptcy Sept 15, 2008. Two weeks later on Sept 25, 2008 the FDIC swooped in and took over Washington Mutual making their shareholders paper worthless. The FDIC gave WAMU which was worth 46 billion at the end of 2006 to JP Morgan for a mere 1.9 billion. The acquisition ultimately allowed JPMorgan to expand its consumer banking footprint significantly, making it the largest U.S. depository institution with over $900 billion in deposits and more than 5,400 branches. While the immediate financial impact included costs and markdowns, the long-term strategic benefits and expansion of market presence were viewed as creating substantial value for JPMorgan Chase.

Between Sept 2008 and Sept 2009 many homes were valued lower than their mortgage. We hadn't seen anything like this since the Great Depression. Everyone saw houses as a stable investment. Those that ignored the noise and bought homes during that time did very well. Many of those that participated in the feast were publicly traded companies. All the homes that were lost by owners who sold during that period are now in strong financial hands and the pendulum has completely reversed. If you expect the Real Estate market to fall significantly again, that's a long shot. About the best you can expect is slower price increases. The government learned a lesson on Lehman. Don't expect that again soon. :cool:
I designed and built this solar heated home 300 ft from the Pacific Ocean 20 miles south of San Francisco, doing all of the interior finish work on its first iteration in 1984 when construction loans were 14% but materials and labor were cheap. In 2009 we bought a second home under foreclosure in Carmel Valley, CA that we sold last year at tidy profit. I have always been a diversified investor US and abroad, stocks, bonds, private companies, exchange fund, and some options on stocks I owned. Hedging 10 years of living expenses is what am recommending to take some profit out the latest run with fixed 4% return. If you can, do it in your IRA where are no tax consequences locking in that profit and is easily reversed.

1736280851879.png
 
I designed and built this solar heated home 300 ft from the Pacific Ocean 20 miles south of San Francisco, doing all of the interior finish work on its first iteration in 1984 when construction loans were 14% but materials and labor were cheap. In 2009 we bought a second home under foreclosure in Carmel Valley, CA that we sold last year at tidy profit. I have always been a diversified investor US and abroad, stocks, bonds, private companies, exchange fund, and some options on stocks I owned. Hedging 10 years of living expenses is what am recommending to take some profit out the latest run with fixed 4% return. If you can, do it in your IRA where are no tax consequences locking in that profit and is easily reversed.

View attachment 419395

CA real estate was a gold mine 50 years ago. Is there much coastal erosion of soil 300 feet from the Ocean? It would be interesting to know how long it takes for 300 feet from the Ocean to become 100 feet.
 
CA real estate was a gold mine 50 years ago. Is there much erosion of soil 300 feet from the Ocean? It would be interesting to know how long it takes for 300 feet from the Ocean to become 100 feet.
Historically 6" per year at my location on stable formation (had no idea just luck). Just an half mile away two homes were condemned last year a road was lost.
 
10 Yr. Treasuries starting to look pretty tasty to us retired, fixed income zealots. Auction tomorrow.

How many of you have Treasury Direct accounts? Great and easy on line tool if you do not!
I had a bad experience with Treasury Direct. They messed up my account credentials twice. First time I had no access for 17 weeks. 2nd time was nearly 6 months occurring a few weeks after restoring access. That meant no access to my money or ability to transact with them. Obviously, after the 2nd time I took everything out. You have to use them for I-bonds. As for buying treasury offerings you can do that through a broker. They don't charge fees for that at most larger outfits, and their online access is much better. Plus moving money into and out of any other accounts is far, far better.

I doubt if my situation is common, and it might not have been so terrible, but getting anything done with the government when something does go wrong is a nightmare. Not to mention long and drawn out. Customer service is a term they've never been introduced to it seems.
 
I had a bad experience with Treasury Direct. They messed up my account credentials twice. First time I had no access for 17 weeks. 2nd time was nearly 6 months occurring a few weeks after restoring access. That meant no access to my money or ability to transact with them. Obviously, after the 2nd time I took everything out. You have to use them for I-bonds. As for buying treasury offerings you can do that through a broker. They don't charge fees for that at most larger outfits, and their online access is much better. Plus moving money into and out of any other accounts is far, far better.

I doubt if my situation is common, and it might not have been so terrible, but getting anything done with the government when something does go wrong is a nightmare. Not to mention long and drawn out. Customer service is a term they've never been introduced to it seems.
Treasury Direct has the worst tech. I use it to buy series-I bonds each year, but it's awful.
 
Although I was car-crazy as a kid through much of my 30s, I somehow never got too crazy about buying them, maybe because I was equally obsessed with high-end audio and the burgeoning world of personal computing :p. And I guess expenditures in the latter really did amount to an "investment in my future" of sorts.
Still car crazy, never go into personal computing, TV's Home Theater beyond the basics (haven't owned a TV since 2007, have a pretty serious desktop computer for some things that I do: can hack vehicles computers for more performance & fuel efficiency while still meeting the emissions specs, being one of them). Yep, in the end, that also requires a laptop.
I made my money in the automotive/heavy truck/heavy equipment repair world (on a worldwide basis: NOT a local mechanic).
My investments consist of real estate that is paid for, and I lease 2 of the 5 locations in the world out. Which ones I lease depends on where I want to be at any time. A few years here & a few years there, in various countries at moderately prime locations in the world is nice (allowing my family to avoid cold all year long [until my wife & I can no longer travel], when we will likely settle in a place that doesn't have cold weather {a place that we own but is our always leased out place for now}).
 
Today's SPY MaxPAIN rises to 593.
Next Monday PAIN 592
Current SPY Price = 588.93

I expect a rally today. Should take us up to 593 or higher.
Thursday US Market closed.

10 year US Treasuries = 4.700
At what point does the Fed realize they lost control of interest rates?

President elect irrational comments for the USA to take over Canada, Greenland and Panama Canal even before taking office is placing risk in market. Probably best to ignore comments rather than react to crazy.
Volatility spike: significant increase in market volatility, causing wider bid-ask spreads and erratic price movements showing on tape.
We better get use to wider swings for the next 4 years with an unfiltered government mouthpiece in place.
Eventually, all of this irrational noise will be ignored just like "the boy who cried wolf".

Update
After 4 hours of misleading trading - we move toward 593? :D
 
Last edited:
I just read The Little Book of Lykke by Meik Wiking because I wanted a reminder that wealth isn't just about money. And while I don't know that it taught me anything new, it distills much into a compact volume with pretty photos.

To date, accumulation of a bit of money has mostly brought me some peace of mind, in the sense of knowing that I'm pretty much guaranteed a certain level of comfort plus some amenities.
 
I just read The Little Book of Lykke by Meik Wiking because I wanted a reminder that wealth isn't just about money. And while I don't know that it taught me anything new, it distills much into a compact volume with pretty photos.

To date, accumulation of a bit of money has mostly brought me some peace of mind, in the sense of knowing that I'm pretty much guaranteed a certain level of comfort plus some amenities.
The greatest feeling of wealth is when family works together and you are comfortable living within your means.
 
Agree with the posts above. Knowing I have a safety net, I can spend time on my hobbies, local community causes and give back with money and more precious, my time. Proud to say recent projects/achievements are a new and very modern local library, restoring a 150 yr old lighthouse and contributing to an Open Space Trust that preserves forests, farms and beaches from development.

1736362330150.jpeg
1736362535700.jpeg
1736362362783.jpeg
 
Agree with the posts above. Knowing I have a safety net, I can spend time on my hobbies, local community causes and give back with money and more precious, my time. Proud to say recent projects/achievements are a new and very modern local library, restoring a 150 yr old lighthouse and contributing to an Open Space Trust that preserves forests, farms and beaches from development.

View attachment 419694 View attachment 419697View attachment 419696

Leave the world a little better than you found it.
Each individual has the power to contribute positively to the world around them, no matter how small the action.
 
Treasury Direct has the worst tech. I use it to buy series-I bonds each year, but it's awful.
Has only been a good experience for me. And I killed it on the i-bonds when the rates blasted to 9%. But have also bought other Treasuries there and had no issues or bank account issues. Though never in large amounts.

That said, my IRA is in Fidelity and I can and have purchased Treasuries there and picked them up after the auction, which is nice to do and, of course, seamless.
 
Has only been a good experience for me. And I killed it on the i-bonds when the rates blasted to 9%. But have also bought other Treasuries there and had no issues or bank account issues. Though never in large amounts.

That said, my IRA is in Fidelity and I can and have purchased Treasuries there and picked them up after the auction, which is nice to do and, of course, seamless.
Really? Remember when you had to enter your password on the on-screen keyboard?
 
SPY MaxPain for Friday Jan 10 = 590
Current price = 588.71
Looking for rally to 591 by close today.

10 year 4.691
It's been range bound around 4.7
To rally much above Pain a slight reverse in 10 year below 4.6 would help.

Dec non-farm payrolls up 256,000 jobs. Versus expectation of 164K.
Initial reaction 10 year rate jump to 4.753.
SPY on sale
Long 583.50 :D
Still looking for 590-591
 
Last edited:
The market didn't look too hot today, fortunately if you shorted it then you might have made a lot!
 
SPY MaxPain for Friday Jan 10 = 590
Current price = 588.71
Looking for rally to 591 by close today.

10 year 4.691
It's been range bound around 4.7
To rally much above Pain a slight reverse in 10 year below 4.6 would help.

Dec non-farm payrolls up 256,000 jobs. Versus expectation of 164K.
Initial reaction 10 year rate jump to 4.753.
SPY on sale
Long 583.50 :D
Still looking for 590-591
Well you cannot win everyday, and it doesn't look like it will close at more than about 581 with a few minutes left.
 
SPY MaxPain 590 Monday, 583 Friday and back to 590 Jan21.
Current pre-Market price 576.32
S&P VIX 21.31

Looks like an interesting week.
578.55 = 5% retrace
548.1 = 10% pullback
PAIN will likely drop and market rise until they meet once again.
It's a week before Trump inauguration. What can go wrong? :facepalm:

Nice 575 PUKE. :rolleyes:

You guys are gonna laugh but I believe Monday Jan 13 will likely end GREEN.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom