The pain of being a member of ASR

[ohnonotagain]

Today a friend of mine reach out and told me that he got a new silver USB C to USB C, and claimed it brings a lot of clarity to the sound. the harshness he had before was gone.
If I hadn't been on ASR, it was probably fine for me. But now it is so painful to read what he says

Life is full of opportunities to learn. A younger me would have gone in with the approach of "so what's it doing to the ones and zeroes to remove the harshness, then?" which probably explains why I didn't have many friends whereas older and wiser me, still just as much an objectivist, would see it as a chance to explore topics like psychoacoustics and how our ears work with them some other day. The difference your friend heard (it exists in his mind, remember) could come from his ears adjusting to the volume of the music if he tested the old cable then switched it out; it could come from a salesman's claims or something written on the box; it could just be that the new cable feels and looks nice; or maybe it's one of our brain's weaknesses like confirmation bias. Or, of course, since I'm a rank amateur on this subject, it could be something completely different.

The psychology around purchases is science too, and your friend getting the good feeling of buying something and tweaking their system from a $50 cable is arguably better than them spending thousands on changing out a CD transport. Maybe that's something of a silver lining for you?

Jumping straight to a blind test as some suggetsed could have been a bit confrontational - it's implying "I don't believe you". Explore things together and maybe your friend will want to try blind testing for his next purchase.

 

[DavidMcRoy]

Now you know how I felt as an atheist born and raised in the Bible Belt.

 

[AudioJester]

I don't believe it. Nobody with half a brain would put all that chit in a system.

I reckon you're taking the piss.

Yeah, we need pics @Keith_W
What speakers with all this magic?

 

[solderdude]

Despite ASR has gained big popularity over the years, the world we live in is still full of audiophools. Many of them are, sadly, our friends. It's not enough to unfriend them over their belief in things that we believe are non senses/snake oils, but it's sometimes painful to see what they do or hear what they say about audio.
Today a friend of mine reach out and told me that he got a new silver USB C to USB C, and claimed it brings a lot of clarity to the sound. the harshness he had before was gone.
If I hadn't been on ASR, it was probably fine for me. But now it is so painful to read what he says

It was never a better time for this gif
View attachment 330903

I have learned over time to simply nod and tell him that this does not mirror my experience.
It does not bother me if their experience doesn't match mine.
People differ in all kinds of ways.
You can't convince someone that is already convinced about something.
Certainly not with 'the science behind it' as they probably do not understand my waffling anyway.
Hardcore objectivists can be equally 'in-flexible' too and too convinced of their own view.

Basically what I did. "How much was it?" "50$". "Cool!". Don't want to hurt his feelings, and don't have energy to argue. I would rather suffer internally a bit than losing a friend

Yep... even when they aren't friends one can do the same ... but when they get aggressive I still tend to go against the grain.

 

[Keith_W]

Yeah, we need pics @Keith_W
What speakers with all this magic?

(EDIT) the original post contained an image as well as labels of the tweaks. I decided not to post the image publicly. I have sent you a PM with the image.

Sorry ASR, but I don't want to do it in public out of courtesy to the owner.

 

[AudioJester]

(EDIT) the original post contained an image as well as labels of the tweaks. I decided not to post the image publicly. I have sent you a PM with the image.

Sorry ASR, but I don't want to do it in public out of courtesy to the owner.

Good call not to post pic without permission.
Cn confirm all goodies in there. As long as the owner is happy...

 

[voodooless]

Especially when talking to "authority figures". Nothing good will come from talking reason to them.

It goes to show: authority and reason do not go along

 

[restorer-john]

It goes to show: authority and reason do not go along

 

[Galliardist]

Here is another anecdote that shows my hearing isn't as good as I think it is.

Yesterday I was invited to a house along with a few friends. They all think of me as a "hard objectivist" and their own opinions range from subjectivist to objectivist. This system we were listening to included quantum dots, Bybee purifiers, Shakti stones, $1000 fuses, and of course huge speaker cables and power cords. We were listening to his system when the owner got up and said "tell me what you think of this" and then walked to both subwoofers and unplugged something. We all thought we could hear a difference, including myself. I said "it seems as if the bass has less impact".

It turns out that he unplugged a power cable conditioner which apparently works by creating a magnetic field around the power cable and "purifying" power to the subs (I don't remember the hocus-pocus description exactly, I was a bit dumbfounded!).

My friend sitting next to me laughed his head off, patted me on the back, and said "Oh Keith, you're f***ed!!".

So yeah, the power of suggestion and peer pressure made me think I could hear things that were not there. But I can tell you that the difference seemed very real.

As I'm even more cynical than most, where are the volume controls on those subs?

I ask from experience: people do cheat to win. Though I don't know the person concerned in this case to throw actual accusations around, of course.

 

[Keith_W]

As I'm even more cynical than most, where are the volume controls on those subs?

I ask from experience: people do cheat to win. Though I don't know the person concerned in this case to throw actual accusations around, of course.

I can assure you he did not touch the volume controls on the subs. I clearly saw what he was unplugging, and I did not see him reach to the back of the sub. I can send you a PM with an image of the system.

 

[Sokel]

My best friend is well on the "other" side but on the big side which is fun regardless.
Doesn't care about forums and people opinions,he just wants big,heavy,loud and of some pedigree.

Would I say "sadly" ? Not in a million years,he's having a blast with his gear,he's the happiest man alive when he listen to it.
Of course we debate,of course we shout to each other (and others,we gather frequently) but in the end of the day he's my 30 years best friend,we have save each other's life on occasion,we have seen the world together (and our wifes),we even built houses not far from each other (and he helped with that,it's not easy to find land here).

Should I unfriend him over a cable,what you say?

 

[SSS]

Have some good friends who listen turntable LP over vintage tube amps and they love the sound. I do not dispute this with them because I cannot perceive what they perceive. So it is as it is and I leave it that way. Myself I like digital stored music and transistor amps. And as an EE it is not easy to talk and convince technical with people who don't have this kind of education.

 

[Galliardist]

I can assure you he did not touch the volume controls on the subs. I clearly saw what he was unplugging, and I did not see him reach to the back of the sub. I can send you a PM with an image of the system.

No need. I’m sure there would be a way to cheat regardless, and that he didn’t because you say so (maybe I'm not quite as cynical as I think I am?).

Here, impact would suggest more energy, as only subs were involved. A power conditioner might feed different voltage or current to the amps?

EDITED - got my posts mixed up in replying

 

[computer-audiophile]

And as an EE it is not easy to talk and convince technical with people who don't have this kind of education.

I must now be careful not to offend anyone, because that is not my intention. I was surrounded by electrical engineers in my profession for a long time and worked with them. Some of my friends who are electrical engineers are also bosses of successful electronics companies. I've noticed that most of them have very little interest in cultural topics, are enthusiastic about art, fashionable clothes, and so on. They seem to have a more 'pragmatic' worldview. You won't meet them in a concert hall at a classical concert or at the theater. Of course there are exceptions, but that's my observation. That also means, and this is my point, that you can't talk to them about such things like music in deep.

EDIT: There are other academic educated professional groups, such as sound engineers and 'Tonmeister', who have expertise in wide spread areas of audio technology, acoustic and music and the like. A 'Tonmeister' must also be able to play an instrument, such as piano.

 

[MEGB1262]

Hi there,

technically speaking the additional cost that could make sense for an USB C to C device is galvanic isolation and not silver wires

if you want to spend really a lot of money take an USB isolator certified for medical devices

so far - so good, Stefano

 

[Mart68]

got a number of friends who are fanatical subjectivists wrt audio. Wouldn't dream of falling out with them over it.

One is about as fanatical as you can get. We went to a meet together, long distance and due to traffic issues we were in the car together for about 7 hours during which time we explored every avenue of the obj/subj divide. Still good friends. We disagree about almost everything.

Two things I don't like to see -

people asking for advice and being told to waste their money on a load of nonsense.

people backing up their subjective experience with bogus technical reasons/evidence. Okay - you perceived a difference. I believe you. Just leave it at that.

 

[Sal1950]

I have many audiophile friends and even some manufacturers in the other camp. As long as they don't try to convince me their point of view is right, I will just smile and move on as others have said. We share the love of so many things and value friendships that a cable is not going to get in the way. I go through this extensively at audio shows. If I tried to argue, I would never get past the fifth room.

There are much simpler and quicker solutions to all this.
During my time in the military the SOP was,
"Just kill them all, then let God sort things out.

 

[carvin]

I have had to put up with many many individuals throughout my life who made al kinds of nonsense claims over a wide variety of subjects.

- people believing that the government poisoned us all with planes, the chemtrails
- people believing in different gods
- people claiming that the government / big oil has devices which can make energy out of nothing
- people who believe in miracles, like a miracle cure against diseases
- people who say evolution theory is just a theory (well you know man, that’s just your opinion)
- people believing that big pharma is withholding a cure for cancer to continu making money

I smile and move on.

Classic passive aggressive

 

[Mean & Green]

I must now be careful not to offend anyone, because that is not my intention. I was surrounded by electrical engineers in my profession for a long time and worked with them. Some of my friends who are electrical engineers are also bosses of successful electronics companies. I've noticed that most of them have very little interest in cultural topics, are enthusiastic about art, fashionable clothes, and so on. They seem to have a more 'pragmatic' worldview. You won't meet them in a concert hall at a classical concert or at the theater. Of course there are exceptions, but that's my observation. That also means, and this is my point, that you can't talk to them about such things like music in deep.

Having an electrical engineering background, I’m not offended by your comment at all. I don’t think I fit into any of that category - but maybe it’s because I’m merely at ‘technician‘ level rather than a design engineer but I don’t think that matters.

I build and install industrial electrical equipment with my hands that is designed by someone else. Often having to put right their mistakes, or engineer my own solutions to problems that they have missed at the design stage. Sometimes the theoretical side of things doesn’t fully match up with reality depending on the scenario.

Anyway apologies, I’m digressing. I’ve worked closely with many electrical engineers over years. I don’t think I could classify any of them as being strictly pragmatic in their world view and tastes. I honestly haven’t found them to be different to anyone else, other than having a very mathematical mind. Of course YMMV.

 

[JayGilb]

Classic passive aggressive

Maybe some people know where to better spend their effort. When I was younger I pissed away far too many hours arguing with people when I could have made more progress talking to a rock. As I matured, I began to understand when to pick a battle.