The Centre channel: what signal gets sent to it? How demanding compared to Left and Right?

[Blumlein 88]

It should. Guess you need the Revel 3 way beast!

JBL M2 should make a hell of a center speaker. Only a two way. Just need an acoustically transparent projector screen or have it mounted rather high above the M2.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

JBL M2 should make a hell of a center speaker. Only a two way. Just need an acoustically transparent projector screen or have it mounted rather high above the M2.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Opps

 

[Sancus]

All 5 channels have near equal level in this. And they do use the LFE channel just a bit.

Oh one thing to remember when looking at multi-channel content, the LFE gets boosted +10dB in playback. So you need to amplify that track by 10dB to see the real comparison. Which usually makes it the loudest track, unsurprisingly.

 

[raistlin65]

This is not an equivalent test to achieve the phantom centre approach that @restorer-john is discussing.

If your AV processor is configured to use a centre channel speaker, and it's simply disconnected, you'll definitely miss key aspects of the surround mix.

It was not my intention to suggest that the OP try a phantom center. Not sure a phantom center would even help him to discover what he's trying to learn in the original post of this thread.

By disconnecting the center channel when it's already configured to be used by the AVR, it's possible to gain an understanding of what the center channel was doing by hearing what's missing.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Oh one thing to remember when looking at multi-channel content, the LFE gets boosted +10dB in playback. So you need to amplify that track by 10dB to see the real comparison. Which usually makes it the loudest track, unsurprisingly.

In the few I looked at it still wouldn't be the loudest. But hardly a definitive view of such files with just the few I had.

 

[Sancus]

In the few I looked at it still wouldn't be the loudest. But hardly a definitive view of such files with just the few I had.

Yeah honestly use of the LFE varies widely in music, some material doesn't even use it at all. It's more consistent in TV/Film.

 

[flyzipper]

Anyone here who actually mixes multichannel sound?

I don't but here are some Dolby certified mixing studios...

Abbey Road

STMPD

... and on the other end of the chain, here's a QSC Reference design for a small theater (source)...

Whether it's QSC, Dolby, Christie Digital, Alcons Audio. or others in this space, you'll find they refer to the LCR speakers as "screen channel speakers" and they're specified as identical parts for an installation.

An example from Dolby (source) ...

The other thing you'll notice, in addition to them being identical speakers, is they're placed at the same heights on the horizonal plane, whether it's behind a screen in the theatre setups, or under a TV panel in a mixing studio.

So, this doesn't support the assertion you've heard on the forums, "that the centre channel requires a more 'muscular' speaker".

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Oh one thing to remember when looking at multi-channel content, the LFE gets boosted +10dB in playback. So you need to amplify that track by 10dB to see the real comparison. Which usually makes it the loudest track, unsurprisingly.

Boost? What room correction does that? Loud or just long wavelengths carousing around the foundation.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I don't but here are some Dolby certified mixing studios...

Abbey Road
View attachment 171957

STMPD

... and on the other end of the chain, here's a QSC Reference design for a small theater (source)...

View attachment 171958

Whether it's QSC, Dolby, Christie Digital, Alcons Audio. or others in this space, you'll find they refer to the LCR speakers as "screen channel speakers" and they're specified as identical parts for an installation.

An example from Dolby (source) ...

View attachment 171960
The other thing you'll notice, in addition to them being identical speakers, is they're placed at the same heights on the horizonal plane, whether it's behind a screen in the theatre setups, or under a TV panel in a mixing studio.

So, this doesn't support the assertion you've heard on the forums, "that the centre channel requires a more 'muscular' speaker".

That was hard to find.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Yeah honestly use of the LFE varies widely in music, some material doesn't even use it at all. It's more consistent in TV/Film.

No kidding.

 

[raistlin65]

I don't but here are some Dolby certified mixing studios...

Abbey Road
View attachment 171957

STMPD

... and on the other end of the chain, here's a QSC Reference design for a small theater (source)...

View attachment 171958

Whether it's QSC, Dolby, Christie Digital, Alcons Audio. or others in this space, you'll find they refer to the LCR speakers as "screen channel speakers" and they're specified as identical parts for an installation.

An example from Dolby (source) ...

View attachment 171960
The other thing you'll notice, in addition to them being identical speakers, is they're placed at the same heights on the horizonal plane, whether it's behind a screen in the theatre setups, or under a TV panel in a mixing studio.

So, this doesn't support the assertion you've heard on the forums, "that the centre channel requires a more 'muscular' speaker".

Doesn't seem to me that this denies the assertion either.

 

[Sancus]

Boost? What room correction does that? Loud or just long wavelengths carousing around the foundation.

It's not a room correction thing, it's part of the spec. The LFE channel is always supposed to be amplified by 10dB from what is on the recording. There's a good explanation in this miniDSP tutorial.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Too bad Abbey Road couldn't get some really good speakers.

 

[digitalfrost]

It's not a room correction thing, it's part of the spec. The LFE channel is always supposed to be amplified by 10dB from what is on the recording. There's a good explanation in this miniDSP tutorial.

I had not so good results with the 10dB LFE boost, apparently one shouldn't do this anymore: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/lfe-in-a-stereo-downmix.27922/post-968361

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

It's not a room correction thing, it's part of the spec. The LFE channel is always supposed to be amplified by 10dB from what is on the recording. There's a good explanation in this miniDSP tutorial.

That must be why I turn down volume 10 dB on sub. Sounds fake.

 

[flyzipper]

Doesn't seem to me that this denies the assertion either.

What would deny the assertion?
How about Dolby guidelines saying they need the same capability (source)?

 

[Sancus]

I had not so good results with the 10dB LFE boost, apparently one shouldn't do this anymore: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/lfe-in-a-stereo-downmix.27922/post-968361

All multi-channel content I've looked at clearly requires a 10dB boost from what is in the files.

I don't know who the random person on a forum claiming otherwise is, but you'll find this from all sorts of real sources like the Dolby Digital Professional Encoding Guide which I'll quote(Section 4.1, pg48):

For consumer and DVD production studios, relative channel levels assume each speaker delivers identical acoustic sound pressure levels to the listener. This excludes the LFE channel, which is intended for reproduction at +10 dB SPL (with respect to the main channels within the same 3 Hz to 120 Hz passband).

Trying to reverse the process and mix the LFE into stereo speakers is probably possible but seems like a bad idea with some gotchas. For starters, you also must low-pass the LFE at 120hz because some idiotic mixes have content above that in it even though they're not supposed to.

E: Additionally, I just thought of this, but you might also run into digital clipping issues because the LFE was never intended to be mixed into another channel with the +10dB actually encoded in.

 

[Mnyb]

As far as the "well just phantom center" theory goes, I think that's fine if you only care about one seat and you accept that stereo can't produce a timbrally correct center image, but it's suboptimal. If the alternative is having your whole system bottlenecked by a wimpy 4" tall center though, then yeah, that's probably the right way to go.

This is why I use Meridian trifield all the time for music . It also as been said widens the sweet spot more people can listen with ok sound quality .

Sadly my LCR speakers are semi identical not identical, the center is a center version of the same speakers as LR ones.

Never seen trifield outside of Meridian products I which they where.

But lexicons 7 logic was or maybe still is aviable in HK AVR products ?

 

[dasdoing]

I had not so good results with the 10dB LFE boost, apparently one shouldn't do this anymore: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/lfe-in-a-stereo-downmix.27922/post-968361

the topic is very confusing.
the boost sounds wrong here playing movies on PC. it might be that the boost is actualy in the decoder!?