Stereo Bass using subwoofers

[Pdxwayne]

OK, I am almost finished with my real work today, so I will do it and put them up in a little while. Mind if I cut the track down to the first 1.5min?

Actually, it is best to cut the first minute out, then use just the second minute. One minute clips from 60 seconds to 120 seconds should be sufficient. The first minute got no low sub bass. : )

Thanks!

 

[pjug]

Actually, it is best to cut the first minute out, then use just the second minute. One minute clips from 60 seconds to 120 seconds should be sufficient. The first minute got no low sub bass. : )

Thanks!

OK. I will leave about 15 sec of the quiet stuff, then another minute or so after that. Will edit this when I am finished.
edit: I removed the old files and now the new files are up labeled as 3 and 4. and link again

Traust - Google Drive

drive.google.com

 

[Pdxwayne]

OK. I will leave about 15 sec of the quiet stuff, then another minute or so after that. Will edit this when I am finished.
edit: I removed the old files and now the new files are up labeled as 3 and 4. and link again

Traust - Google Drive

drive.google.com

Thank you very much for spending time doing this!

I got 14/16. I think good enough to prove I can sense a difference even with just headphone and without the high notes? Note that this is with Topping E30 to L30 to AKG 371.

How about you? What is your results?

 

[pjug]

Thank you very much for spending time doing this!

I got 14/16. I think good enough to prove I can sense a different? Note that this is with Topping E30 to L30 to AKG 371.

How about you? What is your results?

View attachment 156263

Well done! Did you use headphones or speakers[oops you already said] I set up to do ABX with headphones but couldn't hear a difference so didn't follow through. It would have just been guessing.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Well done! Did you use headphones or speakers? I set up to do ABX with headphones but couldn't hear a difference so didn't follow through. It would have just been guessing.

As mentioned, I only used headphones. Don't want my wife to find out I am doing yet another abx using my living room stereo setup.
; )

 

[pjug]

As mentioned, I only used headphones. Don't want my wife to find out I am doing yet another abx using my living room stereo setup.
; )

Can someone try this with speakers? Since the thread is about stereo subwoofers. Not that I am wanting anybody to fail the ABX, just interested is all.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Can someone try this with speakers? Since the thread is about stereo subwoofers. Not that I am wanting anybody to fail the ABX, just interested is all.

I would like to know how many can pass with headphones too. : )

I really want to try with my stereo subwoofers setup in my living room. My living room is ~5000 cubic ft and opens to the rest of the house downstairs and upstairs, ....so everyone in the house will hear what I play.

Will tell my kid and wife later today that I will disturb them for about 15 minutes and see if they are ok or not.......
: )

 

[dualazmak]

This song has strong ~30hz bass. Can you sense stronger shakes on the right?

Although just personally this type of synthetic music is out of my preference, I downloaded the intact mp4 video by 4K Video Downloader for analysis.

I extracted the sound into intact aiff format using JRiver MC28, and loaded the aiff file into Adobe Audition 3.0.1 for analysis. The entire track spectrum is;

Then I selected the 1:05 - 2:20 portion for Fq analysis;

Averaged Fq response of 1:05 - 2:20 portion in 20 Hz - 20 kHz scale;

And also in enlarged 20 Hz - 200 Hz scale;

Of course, I heard the track by my multichannel multi-driver multi-way multi-amplifier stereo system in latest configuration, and found the sound in my listening environment is just reflecting the above measurements.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Although just personally this type of synthetic music is out of my preference, I downloaded the intact mp4 video by 4K Video Downloader for analysis.

I extracted the sound into intact aiff format using JRiver MC28, and loaded the aiff file into Adobe Audition 3.0.1 for analysis. The entire track spectrum is;
View attachment 156285

Then I selected the 1:05 - 2:20 portion for Fq analysis;
View attachment 156288

Averaged Fq response of 1:05 - 2:20 portion in 20 Hz - 20 kHz scale;
View attachment 156286

And also in enlarged 20 Hz - 200 Hz scale;
View attachment 156287

Of course, I heard the track by my multichannel multi-driver multi-way multi-amplifier stereo system in latest configuration, and found the sound in my listening environment is just reflecting the above measurements.

Basically you are saying you can't sense a different in body feel. You got even body feel for the ~30hz tones, correct?

I think your last couple charts are not good enough to distinguish the minor differences. It would seem your charts only reflect the "peak" db and not the peak and valley difference in bass shakes between channels.

Another member made more zoom in charts and here is my response

BASS!

Yes the first (0-th) channel is left. In DTS/AAC it is the centre channel, but we don't have than in stereo :p Found this while verifying. Thanks! You might have missed the edits I made in my prior reply. In your chart, it seems yellow color can be from a range of about -15db to ~0db. So it...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Check out the 0 to 50hz chart from that member. Use your big computer monitor, zoom in and check out the difference between left and right.


Also, check out my comments for another charts from a second member at

BASS!

Yes the first (0-th) channel is left. In DTS/AAC it is the centre channel, but we don't have than in stereo :p Found this while verifying. Thanks! You might have missed the edits I made in my prior reply. In your chart, it seems yellow color can be from a range of about -15db to ~0db. So it...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[dualazmak]

Basically you are saying you can't sense a different in body feel. You got even body feel for the ~30hz tones, correct?

I think your last couple charts are not good enough to distinguish the minor differences. It would seem your charts only reflect the "peak" db and not the peak and valley difference in bass shakes between channels.
...

Of course I can feel the bass sound by my ear and body, thanks to the excellent L & R huge Yamaha YST-SW1000!!

OK, I analyzed the 1:05 - 2:20 portion in FFT size 65536 (which enables precise Fq response down to ca. 10 Hz, and shown in 10 Hz - 80 Hz scale;

I fell that you need to analyze the track by Adobe Audition 3.0.1 or by similar rather precise sound analyzer by yourself, and also check your audio system especially operation of your sub-woofers and of course your room acoustics...

 

[Pdxwayne]

Of course I can feel the bass sound by my ear and body, thanks to the excellent L & R huge Yamaha YST-SW1000!!

OK, I analyzed the 1:05 - 2:20 portion in FFT size 65536 (which enables precise Fq response down to ca. 10 Hz, and shown in 10 Hz - 80 Hz scale;
View attachment 156299

I fell that you need to analyze the track by Adobe Audition 3.0.1 or by similar rather precise sound analyzer by yourself, and also check your audio system especially operation of your sub-woofers and of course your room acoustics...

Again, you missed my point. I am not asking if you could hear and feel the bass. This is obvious. I am asking if you could sense the shakes more on the right side of your body.

Edit: see between 32 and 34 Hz in your chart. Can you drill down more to that range to see the dB difference?

I see that right is about 2db louder between 32 to 34 Hz? That is the shake difference I think?

 

[dualazmak]

You look right, very subtle differences are there;

There are only ca. 1dB R to L differences in 16 Hz - 24 Hz and 32 Hz - 35 Hz area, as you can see in above spectrum. Now I understand these are your points!

If I would get very close to the sub-woofers, I may feel the differences by my body or hand placed at the bass reflection port of my Yamaha YST-SW1000... Will try it soon. Just for your reference, relative gains for L & R sub-woofers are very carefully fine tuned to be equal with each other.

 

[Pdxwayne]

You look right, very subtle differences are there;
View attachment 156306

There are only ca. 1dB R to L differences in 16 Hz - 24 Hz area, as you can see in above spectrum. If I would get very close to the sub-woofers, I may feel the difference by my body or hand placed at the bass reflection port of my Yamaha YST-SW1000... Will try it soon.

I am thinking the most obvious difference is between 32 and 34hz? Not sure that low at 18 to 20 hz would make a difference.

Thanks for checking! Now I have 4 different people checking it 4 different ways and all 4 confirmed there are differences. : )

BTW, my subs are Paradigm Seismic 110. Those have room eq capability. Each one was room eq using multiple microphone positions. So, it is unlikely that it is due to my subwoofers setup issue that I could sense the difference in bass shakes.

 

[dualazmak]

I am thinking the most obvious difference is between 32 and 34hz? Not sure that low at 18 to 20 hz would make a different.

Thanks for checking! Now I have 4 different people checking it 4 different ways and all 4 confirmed there are differences. : )

BTW, my subs are Paradigm Seismic 110. Those have room eq capability. Each one was room eq using multiple microphone positions. So, it is unlikely that it is due to my subwoofers setup issue that I could sense the difference in bass shakes.

Yes, I got your points, and edited my above post and the spectrum chart! Will get back to you this evening (it is now 10 AM in Japan) for my careful ear and body listening to the track again. I can very easily compare between L-sub only and R-sub only...

 

[Kvalsvoll]

I may have missed some posts here, but I can give you some guidelines - if the purpose is to verify you can actually hear a difference between stereo and mono bass.

First, you need a sound track with bass on ONE SIDE. A track that needs high resolution spectrum plots to find a difference is not suitable.

You can confirm the track by listening on headphones - if you can not hear a very significant difference - bass should come from one side in the stereo bass track version - the track is not suited.

The reason for using headphones to check is that with headphones each ear is isolated, so now you will actually hear bass from each channel, in each ear, and can indeed hear direction even at 20Hz. Listening to speakers, the situation is very different, because the sound at low frequencies will be the same on both ears.

You can create this test track by splitting a stereo track into high pass and low pass filtered sections, which you then afterwards sum back together - one stereo version, and one mono version where you sum the bass part to mono. Watch levels - level must be the same for both versions.

Tactile feel can be seen as 3 different sensations - mechanical though vibration from surfaces, sound energy acting on body organs creating resonances inside the body, and sense of sound waves directly through particle velocity of the sound. None of those sensations are sensitive to direction.

 

[Pdxwayne]

I may have missed some posts here, but I can give you some guidelines - if the purpose is to verify you can actually hear a difference between stereo and mono bass.

First, you need a sound track with bass on ONE SIDE. A track that needs high resolution spectrum plots to find a difference is not suitable.

You can confirm the track by listening on headphones - if you can not hear a very significant difference - bass should come from one side in the stereo bass track version - the track is not suited.

The reason for using headphones to check is that with headphones each ear is isolated, so now you will actually hear bass from each channel, in each ear, and can indeed hear direction even at 20Hz. Listening to speakers, the situation is very different, because the sound at low frequencies will be the same on both ears.

You can create this test track by splitting a stereo track into high pass and low pass filtered sections, which you then afterwards sum back together - one stereo version, and one mono version where you sum the bass part to mono. Watch levels - level must be the same for both versions.

Tactile feel can be seen as 3 different sensations - mechanical though vibration from surfaces, sound energy acting on body organs creating resonances inside the body, and sense of sound waves directly through particle velocity of the sound. None of those sensations are sensitive to direction.

Even with small difference, I already passed ABX using headphone. See post #403.

My aim is to use real music and not test tones as other might object that no "real" recorded music would have obvious loud sub bass on one side only.

Try blowing on your right hand. Do you feel that blow on your left?

 

[dualazmak]

I may have missed some posts here, but I can give you some guidelines - if the purpose is to verify you can actually hear a difference between stereo and mono bass.

First, you need a sound track with bass on ONE SIDE. A track that needs high resolution spectrum plots to find a difference is not suitable.

You can confirm the track by listening on headphones - if you can not hear a very significant difference - bass should come from one side in the stereo bass track version - the track is not suited.

The reason for using headphones to check is that with headphones each ear is isolated, so now you will actually hear bass from each channel, in each ear, and can indeed hear direction even at 20Hz. Listening to speakers, the situation is very different, because the sound at low frequencies will be the same on both ears.

You can create this test track by splitting a stereo track into high pass and low pass filtered sections, which you then afterwards sum back together - one stereo version, and one mono version where you sum the bass part to mono. Watch levels - level must be the same for both versions.

Tactile feel can be seen as 3 different sensations - mechanical though vibration from surfaces, sound energy acting on body organs creating resonances inside the body, and sense of sound waves directly through particle velocity of the sound. None of those sensations are sensitive to direction.

I essentially agree with you if we would be really serious in hearing the L to R difference in low, 15 Hz - 50 Hz sounds.

Here I am not so serious, however, and I am rather interested in my usual ear (and body) listening experiences mainly at my listening position in my actual room listening environments with my SP drivers including sub-woofers...

Consequently, I will respond to @Pdxwayne as wrote in my above post this evening soon, and will finish-up my participation here.

 

[dualazmak]

Hello @Pdxwayne,

It is still 11 AM in Japan, and before going back to my "remote" office work upstairs, I quickly but carefully compared the L and R sub-woofer sound of the specific track we are discussing.

Using the flexible "Solo" button in my software crossover DSP/EQ "EKIO", I could easily and precisely compared between them;

Now I could confirm your point; I could hear by my ears and also could feel by my body the 1 - 2 dB differences in L-sub and R-sub at listening position and also at very close to the subs.

Please refer to my post here for the details of my latest multichannel multi-driver multi-way multi-amplifier system configurations with L & R sub-woofer Yamaha YST-SW1000.

BTW, please note that I can easily fine adjust the relative gains for L-sub and R-sub by EKIO's gain settings and/or by the volume dials of L & R sub-woofer Yamaha YST-SW1000.

This post would be the end of my participation in this thread regarding the specific music/video track.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Can someone try this with speakers? Since the thread is about stereo subwoofers. Not that I am wanting anybody to fail the ABX, just interested is all.

BTW, I think your test files contains distortions. I wonder if it is as contained in original file or not. I don't sense such distortions in the Youtube videos. I was going to do ABX with my stereo subs, but then I heard the distorted sounds in my left sub. It was very annoying and I thought my left sub is broken. But when I checked again with two different headphones, using my phone and using E30+L30 as player, I heard same kind of distortions when going a little louder.

Anyway, due to that distracting distortion, I can't properly perform ABX with my stereo subs. Interesting that it was not too distracting when using my headphone to performed ABX earlier. Maybe I did not need to play too loud with headphone as compare to using subs (I sit more than 11ft away from the subs.)

 

[Pdxwayne]

Hello @Pdxwayne,

It is still 11 AM in Japan, and before going back to my "remote" office work upstairs, I quickly but carefully compared the L and R sub-woofer sound of the specific track we are discussing.

Using the flexible "Solo" button in my software crossover DSP/EQ "EKIO", I could easily and precisely compared between them;
View attachment 156319

Now I could confirm your point; I could hear by my ears and also could feel by my body the 1 - 2 dB differences in L-sub and R-sub at listening position and also at very close to the subs.

Please refer to my post here for the details of my latest multichannel multi-driver multi-way multi-amplifier system configurations with L & R sub-woofer Yamaha YST-SW1000.

BTW, please note that I can easily fine adjust the relative gains for L-sub and R-sub by EKIO's gain settings and/or by the volume dials of L & R sub-woofer Yamaha YST-SW1000.

This post would be the end of my participation in this thread regarding the specific music/video track.

Thank you very much for checking! Now I am not the only one who can sense stronger shakes on the right when using stereo subs.