State of the Art passive full-range speakers?

[MattHooper]

Matt,

Can you post a picture of the Joseph's from your listening chair?

I don't want to swamp the thread with my own gear, but since you asked (and the OP is interested in JA speakers), sure:

FYI: My stereo speakers sit out in front of my home theater projection screen. The screen wall around the screen is all black velvet and the L/C/R speakers are covered in black velvet to not reflect light and disappear in to the wall. Since I'm cramming a lot of gear in to the same room I took various strategies to not make the technology too visible and intrusive, and let the stereo speakers take visual prominence.

My projection screen uses 4-way automated masking. In the photos the screen is in small mode, but it can be opened up to almost the width and height of the wall for an IMAX-like experience when desired. But I like to keep it small when listening to the speakers, so it's mostly black around them with some nice lights on the screen. I can also alter the acoustics, the reflectivity and spaciousness of the sound, by manipulating the size of the masked screen area (because the screen reflects some high frequencies somewhat, the masking is black velvet which absorbs high frequencies, so I can open up or close the masking for more live or more dead sound in the room).

(It's weird how the photos compress space, making the room look smaller, the speakers closer. Like everything is miniturized vs the more spacious feel of the room in person).

Daylight photo from sofa:

Speaker grills off:

I often like to have the lights way down for immersive listening:

 

[MattHooper]

You are wasting your time, with this thread and so many other.
They are way too enamoured with their gear, to bother with details like the room, having a look at most install tell all you need to know.

Who might you be talking about?

I employed an architect and professional acoustician in the renovation of my room. Virtually every speaker I've placed in there sounds fantastic.

Speaker bla bla will sound so different/better/worst than the other speaker bla bla. Evidence? I heard it!

Should we all refrain from ever reporting on or describing the sound of any speaker we've heard, or have owned? Are we to sink right in to the Spock-like caricature many have of this forum, in which any subjective impressions of speakers are verboten and "All they care about is looking at measurements?"

Beside Amir contributions and review, you need to look hard to find any science in this ocean of undemonstrated subjective comments.
All good in my book, everyone is entitled to enjoy themselves the way they see fit.

Agreed. There is actually very little science in the comments here. Few are in the position to do science with their gear. So it's a "take it for what the reader thinks it's worth" affair.

 

[MarcT]

Who might you be talking about?

I employed an architect and professional acoustician in the renovation of my room. Virtually every speaker I've placed in there sounds fantastic.



Should we all refrain from ever reporting on or describing the sound of any speaker we've heard, or have owned? Are we to sink right in to the Spock-like caricature many have of this forum, in which any subjective impressions of speakers are verboten and "All they care about is looking at measurements?"



Agreed. There is actually very little science in the comments here. Few are in the position to do science with their gear. So it's a "take it for what the reader thinks it's worth" affair.

Lol, as Foreigner aptly put it in 1979 -- "Blinded by Science". And we also no longer need to have any discussions about the taste of foods, because I've developed the mathematical formula to tell us if we are actually enjoying the taste of our food, or not!

 

[Martini]

F328Be are not full range, hence the higher sensitivity

I'd say they are in my room.

 

[Travis]

Two votes for Joseph Audio already! They certainly fit the bill cosmetically and I've seen so many rave reports from trade shows. The Pearls claim within "within 2dB from 25 Hz to 20 kHz", which sounds great. I'll add them to my short list and try to find a dealer for an audition.

What I wonder about is, given what seems to be a fairly conventional design, whether they can compete with these more innovative-seeming designs from KEF and Perlisten. My fiancée just bought me Floyd Toole's Sound Reproduction book so I can hopefully educate myself on this topic!

Read this as a companion to his book, and read it before you finish your room:

https://www.harman.com/documents/LoudspeakersandRoomsPt3_0.pdf

 

[chouca]

Therefore there's nothing wrong in someone with hands on experience with the brand offering observations from that experience. He clearly appreciated the input.

I did appreciate the input, and I don't really have a problem with subjective impressions. Especially when combined with supporting measurements, subjective impressions can help complete the picture. Joseph speakers are mentioned fairly often as standouts at trade shows, so I'm curious enough about them to give them a listen. I also saw a rave show report from Amir about the Avalon Acoustics Precision Monitor. I don't know how well they measure, but since they are based nearby they are probably worth a listen.

That said, what I'm mainly looking for in this thread are speakers that are known to measure close to SOTA. Although I don't yet know if my own preference is for absolute neutrality, I want to start by auditioning neutral speakers, both to educate myself and to establish a "ground truth" baseline to better understand my preferences. I certainly like the idea of a neutral speaker. I listen to all kinds of music, so I don't want speakers that "prefer" any particular musical genre.

If I discover that I prefer speakers that deviate from absolute neutrality, then I hope to characterize that preference through measurements, so that I can either EQ neutral speakers to match my preference, or better predict which speakers I might prefer based on how they deviate from neutrality.

 

[Purité Audio]

I did appreciate the input, and I don't really have a problem with subjective impressions. Especially when combined with supporting measurements, subjective impressions can help complete the picture. Joseph speakers are mentioned fairly often as standouts at trade shows, so I'm curious enough about them to give them a listen. I also saw a rave show report from Amir about the Avalon Acoustics Precision Monitor. I don't know how well they measure, but since they are based nearby they are probably worth a listen.

That said, what I'm mainly looking for in this thread are speakers that are known to measure close to SOTA. Although I don't yet know if my own preference is for absolute neutrality, I want to start by auditioning neutral speakers, both to educate myself and to establish a "ground truth" baseline to better understand my preferences. I certainly like the idea of a neutral speaker. I listen to all kinds of music, so I don't want speakers that "prefer" any particular musical genre.

If I discover that I prefer speakers that deviate from absolute neutrality, then I hope to characterize that preference through measurements, so that I can either EQ neutral speakers to match my preference, or better predict which speakers I might prefer based on how they deviate from neutrality.

Auditioning a really transparent loudspeaker is an excellent idea, the better the measurements the more transparent imho, remember though the speakers have to work in the room, I fing a cardioid response really helps with SBIR and this is reflected in their measurements, and PEQ whether internal or externally implemented is invaluable.
Keith

 

[Bob from Florida]

Lol, as Foreigner aptly put it in 1979 -- "Blinded by Science". And we also no longer need to have any discussions about the taste of foods, because I've developed the mathematical formula to tell us if we are actually enjoying the taste of our food, or not!

I don't recall Foreigner doing that song. Thomas Dolby did for sure. A couple of his classics below.
Blinded by Science 1983

Aliens Ate my Buick 1988

 

[MarcT]

I don't recall Foreigner doing that song. Thomas Dolby did for sure. A couple of his classics below.
Blinded by Science 1983
View attachment 284431

Aliens Ate my Buick 1988

View attachment 284432

"Blinded by Science" is the name of a song on Side 2 of Foreigner's album, Head Games(1979).

 

[Bob from Florida]

"Blinded by Science" is the name of a song on Side 2 of Foreigner's album, Head Games(1979).

Interesting, did it make the charts? I’m guessing it is not the same tune as Dolby’s.

 

[MarcT]

Interesting, did it make the charts? I’m guessing it is not the same tune as Dolby’s.

The album reached #5, but I don't see that the song did.

 

[Bob from Florida]

The album reached #5, but I don't see that the song did.

I don’t have that album but that particular song did not appear on the “Greatest Hits” CD I own. I like Foreigner but now that I think about it I have Double Vision on Vinyl and the CD just mentioned. Time to look for a copy of Head Games at the used record store.

 

[chouca]

You are wasting your time, with this thread and so many other.
They are way too enamoured with their gear, to bother with details like the room

Since you seem concerned about the room, here's a photo of my B&W setup in my previous home. I had an acoustics consultant simulate the room and install absorbers/diffusors/reflectors where the simulation deemed appropriate and acoustic cloth stretched over it all. Maybe the treatments would be done differently now? I'm not sure; this is what I'm trying to learn.

Anyway, please keep the combative comments out of this thread, cheers and thank you.

 

[MattHooper]

Since you seem concerned about the room, here's a photo of my B&W setup in my previous home. I had an acoustics consultant simulate the room and install absorbers/diffusors/reflectors where the simulation deemed appropriate and acoustic cloth stretched over it all. Maybe the treatments would be done differently now? I'm not sure; this is what I'm trying to learn.

View attachment 284606

Anyway, please keep the combative comments out of this thread, cheers and thank you.

That looks awesome! What a zone. (Which projector was that btw?)

 

[chouca]

That looks awesome! What a zone. (Which projector was that btw?)

JVC DLA-X90. Still pretty great after all these years.

 

[MattHooper]

JVC DLA-X90. Still pretty great after all these years.

Nice. I have the model that came out after that one: the JVC RS600. E-shift "semi 4k". I used to upgrade my projector about every two years, but haven't felt the need since JVC moved on to lasers and the native contrast actually went down. Yet their prices have skyrocketed in to "if you have to ask the price" category. So I've been kind of priced out of projector upgrades anyway.

I actually just bought a Lumagen pro processor to finally feed my projector some nice 4K/HDR content.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Since you seem concerned about the room,

Thank you for sharing, this home theatre room looks amazing, congratulation on a top notch execution. You obviously share my concerns and invested time and money to make that room sound the best it could and interfere the least possible with the sound coming from the speakers. Looking forward to see the next project you are working on.

 

[MKR]

As I have been going through my own journey these past many months, I am leaning more and more to speaker designs that make the room irrelevant! To state even more bluntly, if I have to spend as much on room design/treatment as the speakers, I have chosen poorly

 

[chouca]

As I have been going through my own journey these past many months, I am leaning more and more to speaker designs that make the room irrelevant! To state even more bluntly, if I have to spend as much on room design/treatment as the speakers, I have chosen poorly

That sounds pretty great to me!

I bought those 801s used in the 90s and they followed me through about 4 or 5 different places that I lived in until I finally built that room around them. I enjoyed them in every room they were in, and I hoped that the room treatment would elevate the sound even further. I think the center channel behind the perforated screen was the weak link.

 

[Purité Audio]

B&W made decent loudspeakers back then.
Keith