Speaker Crossover Question

[JPChristie_77]

Apologies for this question as I know Crossover inquiries are a Pandora’s Box of response at times but after 2-3 weeks of reading articles, watching videos, and going back on these boards; I am still stumped on something Crossover related and hope someone can help me out (being better safe than sorry here).

I just recently upgraded my home theater setup which consists of the Denon AVR-S750H, Klipsch HT-50 5.0 speaker set, and a Yamaha NS-SW050 subwoofer (previously I had a 6 ohm Pioneer w/a passive Sub).

Initially when I set everything up via Audyssey, everything sounded good except for the fact that vocals out of the center speaker had little clarity and was hard to understand. I purchased the Audyssey MultEQ app and ran another calibration which resolved that issue. As close to perfect as everything almost sounds, I can tell that there are some high-end frequencies that exist from the 5.0 setup whenever the subwoofer is not operating in tandem (i.e. a dialogue drive show/movie in example).

As to the Crossover settings, Audyssey put everything at 120 Hz (of course the LPF is defaulted there as well). I think those duplicate numbers are working against each other to create a separated sound field vs blending into one another as they should. I have a few concerns with where to go next to resolve.

My speaker range is 120 Hz-23 kHz for the 4 and 125 Hz-23 kHz for the Center. I have seen in multiple places that you shouldn’t lower your Crossovers below what Audyssey establishes them at but before I did the calibration from the app, I had both higher and lower numbers than 120 so I am unsure of what would be safe or effective at this point (this is where my lack of Crossover understanding comes into play).

The Denon AVR goes from 120 Hz to 150 Hz so I really can’t take things higher up. I also do not want to wind up back where dialogue out of the Center is a strain either. Other than this final piece of fine-tuning, I am very happy with how everything is sounding (and music outside of shows/movies sound perfect already). If anyone has advice on how I can potentially shore this up, it would be appreciated.

 

[ozzy9832001]

150 hz is pretty low for standard dialogue, and probably isn't the issue with the center channel having poor performance. As for the crossovers, we'll assume their rated specs are accurate. The goal is a smooth transition from one to another. Personally, I'd try in the 130-135 range for your xover to start. A small overlap is probably going to give you the best overall sound and blending. If you crossover too low, then it will roll off both devices and leave a slight void around the bottom end (125hz)

 

[JPChristie_77]

150 hz is pretty low for standard dialogue, and probably isn't the issue with the center channel having poor performance. As for the crossovers, we'll assume their rated specs are accurate. The goal is a smooth transition from one to another. Personally, I'd try in the 130-135 range for your xover to start. A small overlap is probably going to give you the best overall sound and blending. If you crossover too low, then it will roll off both devices and leave a slight void around the bottom end (125hz)

Thank you for your response. The center channel clarity was rectified when I calibrated from the Audyssey app vs the receiver. My problem now is the overall sound field is still a little too wide and high. While I am inclined to agree with your Crossover suggestion, the issue is this receiver moves in 10hz increments until after 120hz. After that (which is where they're set now), 150hz is the next option. To the point of the speaker specs, I would like to move them (especially the center) a tick higher than 120hz but am unsure if 150hz is too much or not (I know going higher won't effect the Audyssey reference lock but I certainly can't go lower).

(Side Note) When watching Avatar last night; I gave the subwoofer a volume boost, pushed the center speaker level up a peg, and tried an alternate high frequency roll-off offered by the app. The combination put me in a better place than when I started, though I still feel like there is too much treble (especially during anything that is just dialogue driven). To your original point, I just need a bit of a better blend/transition but getting there is where I'm stuck.

 

[ozzy9832001]

There could be a lot of reasons for poor dialogue. Without any kind of measurements you'd be kind a just shotgunning it. One thing could be somewhat beneficial but making something else worse. Honestly, it's a terrible cycle we fall into. I'd get it to a point where you're happy and be done with it. Otherwise, it will drive you insane. My best guess is you may have some reflections that are smearing or muddying the dialogue. Changing the crossover, changes how the sound is distributed.

 

[JPChristie_77]

I am coming to realize that Audyssey's Dynamic Equalizer may be the culprit. Overall. everything sounds so much better with it on but the way it is adjusting particular (high) frequencies isn't jiving with my hearing. I've run additional calibrations and other than some minor level tweaking, I am happy with the base setup (levels, distances, crossovers, etc). Mid-Range Compensation is now off and I've switched EQ from Reference to Flat while trying to keep DEQ in play. I do not want to go down the road of adjusting each speaker set manually (EQ) but can't live with not being able to watch things at the volumes I'm used to either (without side effect). Mind you, I've been using a 5.1 setup in the same living room space for 15/yrs now. Huge technology jump with this receiver vs my prior ones-- I feel like I'm missing something I am not used to looking out for.

 

[ozzy9832001]

When I use DIRAC or anything similar I only let it have it's way with the bass region (250hz and below). I let the room take over from there. If anything, I always go to a curve which will leave the mid range virtually untouched unless there is a significant hotspot.

 

[JPChristie_77]

The clarity of the Center was only an issue when I calibrated from the receiver vs the app, so that piece has been dealt with for some time now. Everything sounds great by and large but my primary issue is something is still very off-putting that I am pretty sure the Dynamic EQ is causing. It makes listening to movies and such at louder Volumes result in some ear ringing afterwards (though it sounds fine in the process of watching). I do think there is benefit to what the Dynamic EQ provides, so I am trying not to throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak. I've never had localization issues with the sub (though the output thereof varies wildly as I am testing various functions). At the moment I am doing some experiments with the frequency adjustments that the app allows for instead of keeping those set at full range which is the default. If that fails, I may just make some curve adjustments at the high-end to see if that fixes things without muddying everything in the process (music already sounds perfect so I don't want to do too much trying to fix one thing and messing up another). Short of that, I will shut Dynamic EQ off and start from scratch. While my previous receiver/speakers certainly didn't sound anywhere near as good, there was a consistency to the output which allowed for listening to all sources at any volumes without the need to fuss. That is what I am striving for at the moment.