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Something A Bit Different: Optical Cartridge....

restorer-john

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I wish the blue light fad would die. It's incredibly jarring and distracting. Very interesting product but is it solving a non-existent or marginal problem?

The invention of the blue LED changed the entire world. Two NOBEL prizes for the scientists.

Once we had blue, all the colours were available. We have torches, headlights, LED panels, perfect daylight lights, giant LED outdoor billboards etc.

None of the last 20 years in LED lighting would be possible with the B in RGB.
 

egellings

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I figured this might be an interesting topic. I'm dimly aware that optical cartridges go way back, but nonetheless they are a pretty rare specimen.

I was thinking about it because I just read my pal's review of the DS Audio cartridge. I know most here don't go in for those type of reviews, but here it is for anyone who is interested. Before getting to the sonic impressions, Jason gives a lay of the land as to the purported benefits of such a cartridge:


I visited a few times since he put in that cartridge/phono stage. I'm very familiar with Jason's system as I visit regularly - he plays mostly vinyl in that particular system - and I have to say I was wowed. My impression was of a clarity and "see-right-through-the-recording-space" sensation and level of detail I hadn't quite heard before from that system. I have to concur with a lot of his subjective impressions in that review in terms of the nuances that were so easily heard. He has an upstairs system with some great speakers/solid state amp, streams digital, and listening to it afterwards was a bit of a letdown by comparison. The vividness of the downstairs vinyl system with the DS Audio cartridge was stuck in my mind.

Here's the website with some explanation of the device:


I've no doubt there's inevitable manufacturer exaggerations built in to their descriptions. But generally speaking, what do you make of the idea of an optical
cartridge - it's likely advantages or disadvantages?
Does the same RIAA EQ apply to that cartridge?
 

Galliardist

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The important thing is that it glows blue. Worth any price.
202207_ds_audio_L1640827.jpg
I’d wait for the McIntosh version when they add a meter to that glowing blue panel. Proper audio!
 

kemmler3D

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Does the same RIAA EQ apply to that cartridge?
Yes and no, cartridges don't have RIAA EQ, records and phono stages are the add/remove steps in that process. The cartridge just picks up what's there.

My understanding is it's an optical device measuring the movement of a normal needle, so the same limitations that necessitate the RIAA EQ would apply to this cartridge, though.

I guess my opinion on this cartridge just depends on whether the optical tracking works better than the electromagnetic ones we're used to. Higher sensitivity, less noise? Or just a lighter wallet adding "air" to the sound?

What would be pretty interesting is a truly high quality laser reader for the grooves themselves. No wear, in theory fewer limits on fidelity. But to the point of a post further up, it doesn't bump the dust out of the grooves, so that's a problem.
 

DonR

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The invention of the blue LED changed the entire world. Two NOBEL prizes for the scientists.

Once we had blue, all the colours were available. We have torches, headlights, LED panels, perfect daylight lights, giant LED outdoor billboards etc.

None of the last 20 years in LED lighting would be possible with the B in RGB.
Blue LEDs are indeed fantastic and made RGB possible but does every sub $100 piece of gear need one blaring at full brightness to indicate that it is operating? Subtle is better, IMO.
 

JP

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My understanding is it's an optical device measuring the movement of a normal needle, so the same limitations that necessitate the RIAA EQ would apply to this cartridge, though.

I believe it’s an amplitude transducer rather than velocity, in which case it’d need different compensation than RIAA de-emphasis.
 

restorer-john

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Blue LEDs are indeed fantastic and made RGB possible but does every sub $100 piece of gear need one blaring at full brightness to indicate that it is operating? Subtle is better, IMO.

Totally agree.

The issue is, they have become so bright for so little current (they are super efficient), that is virtually impossible to 'dim' them with conventional current limiting practices and maintain consistent light levels. In short, they are too good. :)

20mA was the 'standard' current for rated luminous efficacy for LEDs. Even just a tiny 1mA into a blue LED is really bright. If you run them at 20mA, they are like a search light!

Here's a comparison with red, white and blue 5mm LEDs at just 1mA:

IMG_0912 (Small).jpg
IMG_0913 (Small).jpg
IMG_0916 (Small).jpg
IMG_0915 (Small).jpg
 

DonR

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Totally agree.

The issue is, they have become so bright for so little current (they are super efficient), that is virtually impossible to 'dim' them with conventional current limiting practices and maintain consistent light levels. In short, they are too good. :)

20mA was the 'standard' current for rated luminous efficacy for LEDs. Even just a tiny 1mA into a blue LED is really bright. If you run them at 20mA, they are like a search light!

Here's a comparison with red, white and blue 5mm LEDs at just 1mA:

View attachment 248453View attachment 248454View attachment 248455View attachment 248456
My solution is to optically dim them with a filter. I agree that if you try to current limit them they go from off to bright with no in between.
 

Killingbeans

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I've put a black sticker over the blue power LED in my PC tower. Now it has the same intensity as the red HDD activity LED next to it. Without the sticker it will literally light up the whole room :D
 

Newman

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I put black tape dots over almost all my hifi/HT gear’s LED power indicators. But especially the blue ones.
 

sq225917

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I've not seen the guts of one of these cartridges but shouldn't they easily have lower moving mass than a mc? After all it just needs to be a bit of something with a hole in it moving in front of a light.

I can see how they could improve on one aspect of cart design.
 

Balle Clorin

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It is in fact a moving square sheet at the end of the cantilever blocking some led light .
 

egellings

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Yes and no, cartridges don't have RIAA EQ, records and phono stages are the add/remove steps in that process. The cartridge just picks up what's there.

My understanding is it's an optical device measuring the movement of a normal needle, so the same limitations that necessitate the RIAA EQ would apply to this cartridge, though.

I guess my opinion on this cartridge just depends on whether the optical tracking works better than the electromagnetic ones we're used to. Higher sensitivity, less noise? Or just a lighter wallet adding "air" to the sound?

What would be pretty interesting is a truly high quality laser reader for the grooves themselves. No wear, in theory fewer limits on fidelity. But to the point of a post further up, it doesn't bump the dust out of the grooves, so that's a problem.
Didn't a company called Finial Labs (sp?) come out with a laser-based pickup for turntable some time ago, and the Library of Congress bought one so that rare records could be played without wear?
 

kemmler3D

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Didn't a company called Finial Labs (sp?) come out with a laser-based pickup for turntable some time ago, and the Library of Congress bought one so that rare records could be played without wear?
I think so. However, I am not sure if it's particularly high fidelity or what.
 
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I just recently bought a DS Audio optical cartridge because I am convinced by the science behind this new technology.

You don’t have to spent a fortune for it though: in Japan the cartridge DS 003 is sold for ¥220.000 that is roughly $1.600 USD and I opted for the German based manufacturer Mr. Nixie for the optical pre-amp for €950 =$1.000 USD.

I haven’t had time to install and listen to it yet…
 

JP

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New?
 

Newman

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That’s about 1/4 the price listed by retailers in my country…
 
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That’s about 1/4 the price listed by retailers in my country…
Be aware that cartridge & pre-amp is most of the time sold as a set. Only recently you can buy the cartridge without pre-amp from DS Audio. This being said the prices increased a bit in the last half year for the cartridge as well, now they sell for ¥247.5000 in Japan: https://search.yahoo.co.jp/shopping?ei=UTF-8&p=ds+audio+ds+003&fr=applep2&sftype=1&aq=-1&ai=41aca26c-bc75-41e3-9655-6c484f4b8d2e&oq=ds+audio+ds+003&aa=0&ts=8164&at=&iau=0&ml=zz:0;vpk:1;q:ds+audio+ds+003;prop:ec_ctlog;cvpk:631_1,636_1,649_1,104_1,632_1;ctlgid:8166963337;&nasb=1
 
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