SMSL SU-10 DAC Review

[digicidal]

The hump is really very minimal. It's perhaps as good as I've seen it on any DAC with the hump stuff.

Yeah... when you have to "settle" for only -95dB instead of around -100dB without the hump... I think you can write that off. If we're going to worry about that, then we should probably complain about the channel differences nearing full output... despite both channels being well below -100dB at that point.

What I will complain about (academically at least) is the dramatic increase in price over the SU-9 with no appreciable increase in performance, features, etc... but that's the world we live in now. That's definitely not the manufacturer's fault, but it still makes it a bit less appealing than paying half that much a year ago for essentially the same thing.

I did not mean that you should be doing reliability testing. I did say it would be valuable to know reliability. If the OEM would share real data that would be helpful. Otherwise, we rely on user reports - which usually only happen when something goes wrong.

Regarding my first point about ratings.
Would it be possible to establish the audibility point.

Maybe we could have a section in the forums for some of the most popular models and/or manufacturers with owner surveys. I know I would happily spend a few minutes doing one for the gear I've purchased subsequent to reading a review. At least much more happily than I am when political parties harass me for "just 5 minutes of my time" - which seems to be an hourly occurrence these days.

 

[DualTriode]

Who is gonna do the LabView programming for it/them?

How about the modular StormAudio ISP Core16 Pre/pro and/or their MK2 Amps?
How about the modular AVM Ovation PA8.3 and/or SA8.3?
How about the modular Crestron DigitalMedia DM8x8?
They are north of 5 figure price tags but far cheaper from the NI/LXI core alone!

Dude,
You took a short walk off into the weeds.

Go down to your local car dealership.

What I described is exactly what Samsung and Harman are doing with yearly upgrades to auto audio.

https://www.engadget.com/2016-11-14-samsung-buys-harmon-auto-audio.html

Thanks DT

 

[AndreaT]

Well, excellent product, splendid review by Amir. Splitting the hair in four, the Topping DX7Pro+ offers essentially the same performance as DAC, it has a HP Amp of excellent quality, slightly less updated connectivity (no USB C), lower price by $ 300.

Unfortunately I have filled every niche with DACs from ASR: main system, dining room system and studio system. Ah, I almost forgot the bedroom IEM system just had a Topping E30 upgrade. Shall I consider the garage and bathrooms now?

 

[AndreaT]

Yeah... when you have to "settle" for only -95dB instead of around -100dB without the hump... I think you can write that off. If we're going to worry about that, then we should probably complain about the channel differences nearing full output... despite both channels being well below -100dB at that point.

What I will complain about (academically at least) is the dramatic increase in price over the SU-9 with no appreciable increase in performance, features, etc... but that's the world we live in now. That's definitely not the manufacturer's fault, but it still makes it a bit less appealing than paying half that much a year ago for essentially the same thing.


Maybe we could have a section in the forums for some of the most popular models and/or manufacturers with owner surveys. I know I would happily spend a few minutes doing one for the gear I've purchased subsequent to reading a review. At least much more happily than I am when political parties harass me for "just 5 minutes of my time" - which seems to be an hourly occurrence these days.

Good point. I think ASR offers plenty of information to adapt the existing market offers to our musical taste and to our psychological needs. I was thrilled to receive the Okto dac8 Stereo after a few months of wait list time because it was then at the pinnacle of what was possible at a price many thousands less than the previous SOTA. I was happy as well with Gustard X16 and Topping E30 because they offered the same performance for less than half the price of the Okto. However, the connectivity features of the Okto are better suited to my main system, Gustard and Topping fit the space on the shelf of the other systems. Overall, I think I had the most single improvement when > 4 years I shelled out about $ 2,000 for the Benchmark DX3, because it was connected then to my Weiss MAN301. So, difficult to say which DAC offered the most when I sum quality/price + feeling & emotions while listening to Music. Other more mundane factors come into play as well: the chair(s) are more comfortable in the room with the Okto, the acoustics of the three rooms being somewhat different. At this point I believe I am done, and I better spend time listening (and completing the transfer into FLAC of my large CD music collection, with the associated extreme pain of archiving and correcting the widely anarchic metadata CDs are notorious for). All four DACs have been performing impeccably since the day I received them.

 

[pseudoid]

Dude,
You took a short walk off into the weeds.

Dude?
Me?
Short walk?
Into the weeds?
Apples?
Oranges?

 

[Grooved]

Hi @amirm , great review.
Just a question, is it possible for you to run the 1kHz test once again, but at 4V just to see how the SINAD changes, and compare it to a DAC like the DO100 that can output 4V at max, please?

 

[amirm]

Regarding my first point about ratings.
Would it be possible to establish the audibility point.

Not based purely on SINAD number if that is what you are asking.

 

[amirm]

Hi @amirm , great review.
Just a question, is it possible for you to run the 1kHz test once again, but at 4V just to see how the SINAD changes, and compare it to a DAC like the DO100 that can output 4V at max, please?

Not home but I estimate 0.5 db hit to SINAD.

 

[JSmith]

Would it be possible to establish the audibility point.

As you may know, SINAD in these tests is basically the inverse of THD+N (assuming the residual is analysed with same bandwidth)... so it could be noise dominated or distortion dominated. Then we get down to what type of distortion is present, lower and higher order harmonics etc., so it's not that simple to do what you suggest by using the SINAD only.


JSmith

 

[Grooved]

Not home but I estimate 0.5 db hit to SINAD.

Thanks

 

[daniboun]

For less than $500 get the SU9 Pro.... almost the same performances :

Measurements of SMSL SU9 Pro ESS9039Pro DAC - L7Audiolab

台式设备 今年五月份（2022年5月）的时候ESS发布了9038Pro芯片的下一代（？）产品，ESS9039Pro。当时有过一阵子讨论，从编号来看9039Pro更像是9038Pro的"小改"，双目三林这次给我们抢先带来了 SMSL SU9 Pro 这款基于9039Pro芯片的产品

www.l7audiolab.com

 

[Tangband]

Fantastic measurement results.
The only issue I have with this product is :

Reliability : Is the quality longtherm as good as for an example a Yamaha product that lasts for 10 years or more ?

900 dollars are also a lot of money for a dac that cant be used as a DDC .
I can buy a second hand Linn streamer for 900 dollars .

Personally - I would not buy a DAC more expensive than 300 dollars if I dont have a real store with at least 3 years guaranty to go to, where I can get help if there is quality issues .

Because this product only have analog outputs, its supposed to be used with analog gear and analog speakers . The future, however, is undoubtfully digital, with the dac and dsp inside the active speaker.
This future are already here, and can give massive sound improvements if keeping the signal digital as long as one can, including dsp roomcorrection and digital crossovers.

 

[JSmith]

For less than $500 get the SU9 Pro.... almost the same performances :

Yes, basically the same performance... but not the same connections, design or parts. SU-10 has USB-B & C, I²S, AES/EBU and also has the function to control the outputs. It has a wider case and with some feet... also has dual ES9039M Pro chips. Up to people if these differences represent value to them or not I suppose, but one could say it's a more premium version for those reasons.


JSmith

 

[carlosmante]

Thank you @amirm,
Is there much audible differences between Fast1 and Fast3 filters?
The 23.6kHz hump should be inaudible and their website graphs do not depict any waveform differences.
View attachment 238323
View attachment 238325
SOTA has a new champ!

"...variable sound timbre..."? The words Vivace and Adagio are related to Tempo in Music not Timbre.

 

[Gio]

Am I wrong, or the 2x price compared to the previous products, is a bit "out of tune"? I mean they risk do not sell to much of them.

 

[MCH]

As you may know, SINAD in these tests is basically the inverse of THD+N

The opposite

 

[Bob from Florida]

Not based purely on SINAD number if that is what you are asking.

Not suggesting SINAD. To be clear, asking for a suggestion based on your experience.
An armchair suggestion by me would be to look at noise and dynamic range to establish inaudibility. Not an end-all suggestion, but an opener to a discussion of merits to establishing a standard of sorts.

 

[sq225917]

So is this where Chinese brands run into the buffers? There's literally nowhere for them to go for measured performance, certainly for audible improvements.

What does Armin do next? How does he navigate between continuing to add user value and just continuing to post up simple this is good, this bad, reviews.

I have no interest in seeing another superlative set of measurements from a dac with a hodge podge interface, average firmware and quirky operating habits, clicks, chirps, delays etc.

Armin, I think its time for Audio Science Review and Excellent in User Experience to be unveiled, where products have to achieve excellent in platform execution and interface/hardware/software integration to achieve top marks.

I voted fine for this dac, it offers nothing more than the dac that preceeded it in the reviews list and offers poor VFM due to pointless conceit of the output stage topology.

There's no way that screen should be given a pass...

 

[DigiPete]

So is this where Chinese brands run into the buffers? There's literally nowhere for them to go for measured performance, certainly for audible improvements.

The Chinese have perfected building DAC's - yes.
And amps.

So where should they go from here and in what order?

1) Stereo DAC with room correction - think RME ADI-2 with more/easier DSP
2) 4 channel DAC with room correction and dual sub integration - think miniDSP SHD but cheaper
3) AVR with Atmos and decent DAC's - Think Denon AVR X3800H
4) Atmos headphone amp - think Smyth Realiser A16 - but easy use for streaming @ €/$1k

I consider 1) & 2) as exercises to get to 3) and 4).
While making a little money on the way to fuel the progress.

Personally I'm still pining for a price resonable AVR with AES/EBU or S/PDIF out, but that is too far from the main stream to be a good bet.

 

[Lupin]

Am I wrong, or the 2x price compared to the previous products, is a bit "out of tune"? I mean they risk do not sell to much of them.

I'm certain SMSL didn't push this to market with the intention nor expectations to sell tons of them.

They do this for the same marketing reasons Nvidia pushes the GTX4090 on the market; to be on the top of the charts.
It is an proven concept that people are more likely/willing to buy cheaper low/mid tier products from the same brand/manufacturer that lead the charts in the top high tier market.