SMSL SU-10 DAC Review

[Lorenzo74]

....but do they really? If everything Amir is measuring is inaudible then attempts to improve beyond that are just unnecessary expenditure in terms of time, finance and resources. It's just vastly diminishing returns now.

I would humbly propose that the number of DACs from the likes of Topping, SMSL etc be drastically reduced to a few a year, with more emphasis on other electronic products such as amplifiers etc. These still have a long way to go to reach the levels of transparency seen in the measurements above. We all know now that these companies are quite literally at the top of their game for DACs, so lets focus on the downstream components which are letting the side down.

DSP and room correction.
This is the future (KII, D&D,..) and much more relevant than Sinad…

 

[pablolie]

Clearly performance has come up to levels that have leaped waaaaay ahead of what even the best human ear on the planet can discern. What's IMO still lacking is the universal awareness that it's built-in, configurable sub out and room correction we need to add to the mix. Unless you live in a medieval castle, without room correction you'll probably never exploit the theoretical performance of such superb-measuring equipment.

Going forward, I will never ever consider a DAC that doesn't have that feature set built-in. Let's face it: DACs are the new preamps for many of us, and IMO in this day and age it's great if they pass the measurement bench in such stellar fashion, but it's underwhelming I don't get the functionality and configurability to make it sound at its best in my listening room.

PS: And note my listening room is pretty darn optimal, cathedral ceiling, set along a long wall with open space etc. I still want those features going forward.

PS2: My cat agrees too. It's kind of fun to see he likes to sit exactly in the middle of the speakers, and when I play an 18kHz test tone (which admittedly I can't hear, welcome to being in the 50s :-D) he checks between the speakers to see if there's a mosquito there... :-D

PS3: Oh add awesome headphone amplification to the mix, I forgot that!

 

[pablolie]

DSP and room correction.
This is the future (KII, D&D,..) and much more relevant than Sinad…

I *liked* the post but want to emphasize my complete and total agreement. It's an exponential "like"...

 

[DanielT]

What's IMO still lacking is the universal awareness that it's built-in, configurable sub out and room correction we need to add to the mix. Unless you live in a medieval castle, without room correction you'll probably never exploit the theoretical performance of such superb-measuring equipment.

"universal"...you mean for everyone who listens to music through a sound system? For HiFi enthusiasts yes, BUT for regular music listeners... nope. They absolutely do not want to deal with measuring microphones, settings in computers, turning switches in computer programs and so on. They are not interested in that. Plug and play, sound good (so good it will be then) and that the HiFi (or "HiFi") system look nice.Looking nice and cheap is my guess is the most important for, not HIFi concerned, music listeners.

 

[pseudoid]

Clearly performance has come up to levels that have leaped waaaaay ahead of what even the best human ear on the planet can discern. What's IMO still lacking is the universal awareness that it's built-in, configurable sub out and room correction we need to add to the mix. Unless you live in a medieval castle, without room correction you'll probably never exploit the theoretical performance of such superb-measuring equipment.

Going forward, I will never ever consider a DAC that doesn't have that feature set built-in. Let's face it: DACs are the new preamps for many of us, and IMO in this day and age it's great if they pass the measurement bench in such stellar fashion, but it's underwhelming I don't get the functionality and configurability to make it sound at its best in my listening room.

Indeed, future of audio looks to be a more happy place.
I am waiting until HDMI audio (eARC as input) becomes the next 'dragon' to slay.

I could not give your post a 'Like" because your *PS1 makes me jealous, your *PS2 is about cats and you should have kept *PS3 forgotten.

 

[morillon]

I tell myself that starting with this type of dac , offers a margin to stick pretty tube buffers ...



in the fashion of the 90s early 2000s
;-)

 

[bequietjk]

Damn. Yes it measures great. But how are we still going down this road carrying the ESS hump? At $900 that should be eliminated as far as I can tell. I'm not super understanding of the tech these devices have but there are many pieces out here that have solved this issue already and at drastically lower cost.

Aside from the hump, i'll give it a thumbs up.

 

[Doodski]

Damn. Yes it measures great. But how are we still going down this road carrying the ESS hump? At $900 that should be eliminated as far as I can tell. I'm not super understanding of the tech these devices have but there are many pieces out here that have solved this issue already and at drastically lower cost.

Aside from the hump, i'll give it a thumbs up.

The hump is really very minimal. It's perhaps as good as I've seen it on any DAC with the hump stuff.

 

[bequietjk]

The hump is really very minimal. It's perhaps as good as I've seen it on any DAC with the hump stuff.

hnnnggg lol

 

[sloth]

Based on company recommendation, I upgraded the unit to latest firmware.

Where does one find the latest firmware? The SMSL website reads "no content" in the Firmware section under DAC and Google isn't helping. Also, is it possible to update the firmware using a Mac?

 

[Labjr]

Nice review! But I have a little nit-pick. I expect the multitone test to be -140DB across the board.
Why is performance always worse at lower frequencies?

 

[PeteL]

They need to change as new technology and silicon become available. They are probably very busy doing that with the various always newer and newer ICs that are available with whatever specs and features. These peeps buy ICs. They don't make them. They are at the mercy of the IC makers and must follow the IC makers' timeline to keep being relevant. Impressive test @amirm

You make it sound like they develop with a gun on the temple. They need to change, they must folllow the IC makers, they are at the mercy. Heck I would think that a manufacturer can design what he wants... There are many ways to stay relevant, in this case, as with anybody, they do it because it still sells, no other reasons, but as I mentioned earlier, my opinion is that it will at some point hit some dead end. nowhere else to go when people realise that there is no value added compare to what they already have. I think it's just a frenzy on who will hit the highest number right now, but it will get old. I may be wrong too but we'll see.

 

[Mr. Olinad]

Chinese products were good because they were cheaper than others.
Now they're competing with European overpriced products in a flooded market they've created where the only purpose is to launch the same product every month in a different "package" so they can be all over ASR's top list.
It's way beyond hearing capabilities and doesn't make any sense to pay this high for such product.

 

[pseudoid]

Chinese products were good because they were cheaper than others.
Now they're competing with European overpriced products in a flooded market they've created where the only purpose is to launch the same product every month in a different "package" so they can be all over ASR's top list.
It's way beyond hearing capabilities and doesn't make any sense to pay this high for such product.

You mean to tell us that you are not going to pre-order the next month's SMSL SU-11 version, at half the price?
Is there a 'Moore's Law' corollary that applies to the 'progress' from our far-east contingency... or is it going to flame out soon?

 

[Koeitje]

I don't think you got my point. Many design their products with more than just one design goal, I did not say performance is not important, but not everybody need 123 dB SINAD, In fact, who really need that?and if this is not your main focus as a manufacturer, It don't mean you released a poor product, it just mean that ASR will not be your main marketing channel.

For that we have MiniDSP, Matrix Audio and RME. 2 out of 3 of those also send in their products for reviews. Or weren't you talking about streamers, DSPs or DACs with equalisers? You have to be more clear.

Chinese products were good because they were cheaper than others.
Now they're competing with European overpriced products in a flooded market they've created where the only purpose is to launch the same product every month in a different "package" so they can be all over ASR's top list.
It's way beyond hearing capabilities and doesn't make any sense to pay this high for such product.

Right now they are still cheaper or the same in price while providing the best performance on the market. They still offer $100-200 DACs that outperform 99,9% of the market (and sound the same as this model). So I really don't know what more you want from them? Western alternatives in this performance range? That's the Tambaqui or dCS I guess....you can look up the prices on those if you want.

 

[DualTriode]

All this stuff/equipment needs a integrated mini rack system with slots to pull out last years old dated device and replace with todays new top of class performer.

This integrated mini rack system could look like National Instruments LXI.
https://www.pickeringtest.com/en-us...Awo90y7_0oLLfo3Gwc2TH-sZCvhjJLO4aAmVJEALw_wcB

There should be slots for Blue-tooth, fiber, RCA and you know what ever the new device is. there should be evens slots for random ABX comparisons.

The entire shebang should be controllable with a Ipad type device.

Thanks DT

 

[pseudoid]

This integrated mini rack system could look like National Instruments LXI.
https://www.pickeringtest.com/en-us...Awo90y7_0oLLfo3Gwc2TH-sZCvhjJLO4aAmVJEALw_wcB

Who is gonna do the LabView programming for it/them?

How about the modular StormAudio ISP Core16 Pre/pro and/or their MK2 Amps?
How about the modular AVM Ovation PA8.3 and/or SA8.3?
How about the modular Crestron DigitalMedia DM8x8?
They are north of 5 figure price tags but far cheaper from the NI/LXI core alone!

 

[MaxBuck]

This is yet another technical tour de force that I have no need for.

 

[Bob from Florida]

It is not possible. Yes, I can do teardowns of amps and such but beyond that, this type of evaluation simply is not in the cards. To get a sense of reliability multiple units need to be tested in various conditions for long periods of time. That just not going to happen and is outside of my charter.

I did not mean that you should be doing reliability testing. I did say it would be valuable to know reliability. If the OEM would share real data that would be helpful. Otherwise, we rely on user reports - which usually only happen when something goes wrong.

Regarding my first point about ratings.
Would it be possible to establish the audibility point.

 

[digicidal]

The hump is really very minimal. It's perhaps as good as I've seen it on any DAC with the hump stuff.

Yeah... when you have to "settle" for only -95dB instead of around -100dB without the hump... I think you can write that off. If we're going to worry about that, then we should probably complain about the channel differences nearing full output... despite both channels being well below -100dB at that point.

What I will complain about (academically at least) is the dramatic increase in price over the SU-9 with no appreciable increase in performance, features, etc... but that's the world we live in now. That's definitely not the manufacturer's fault, but it still makes it a bit less appealing than paying half that much a year ago for essentially the same thing.

I did not mean that you should be doing reliability testing. I did say it would be valuable to know reliability. If the OEM would share real data that would be helpful. Otherwise, we rely on user reports - which usually only happen when something goes wrong.

Regarding my first point about ratings.
Would it be possible to establish the audibility point.

Maybe we could have a section in the forums for some of the most popular models and/or manufacturers with owner surveys. I know I would happily spend a few minutes doing one for the gear I've purchased subsequent to reading a review. At least much more happily than I am when political parties harass me for "just 5 minutes of my time" - which seems to be an hourly occurrence these days.