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SMSL PS100 *$30.00* DAC (some limitations apply)

TonyJZX

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https://aoshida-audio.com/products/smsl-ps100

was linked in another thread and while it sounds good on paper being less than half the price of a SU-1 there may be some show stoppers for some people

Sampling Rate

USB ..............................................................................44.1 ~ 48kHz
Optical/ Coaxial.................................................44.1kHz ~ 192kHz


this will not suffice for pc use

i assume the hdmi is routed thru to the 192 dac... but this may be fine for the vast majority of people given the current 384/768 high sample rates arent used much
 

antcollinet

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Even 48kHz is enough for audible transparency. (Enough bandwidth for anyone's ears). It would be very interesting to see it measured if someone would like to drop ship it to Amir.

:)
 

staticV3

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Well the quoted specs are as economical as the price:
f54701166f.png
85dB SINAD, 98dB SNR, at least it does 2.0Vrms.

Curious how DR is 2dB worse than SNR. I guess even at -60dBFS, there's still significant harmonic distortion?

I wonder why they didn't just put a CS43131 in this. That would've given them ~115dB SINAD and 130dB DR for about the same price I imagine.

The most interesting part of the PS100 to me is the eARC input.
That might signal eARC becoming commonplace on DACs from SMSL, Sabaj, Topping, etc. soon.
 

Power Pop 23

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I see mention of ARC but not eARC in the advertising copy for the SMSL PS100. Regardless, this HDMI input frees up the optical connection on the SMSL PS100 to attach a WiiM audio streamer for more input options.
 

Snoopy

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If there are no issues with the implementation of the hdmi port, this will be a great alternative to all these hdmi splitters that often not really work. Im currently using Apple Airplay for my TV stuff because I have problems with my TVs optical output.

Would be amazing if the next batch of 200-500 $ dacs will have hdmi as well :)
 

ocinn

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I wonder why they didn't just put a CS43131 in this. That would've given them ~115dB SINAD and 130dB DR for about the same price I imagine.
Considering the CS43131 dongles are ~$40-50 and don't have Toslink, coax, a real case, eARC, or real RCA outputs, I don't think it would be anywhere near the same price. The benefit of the Cirrus chip is that it has an integrated headphone amp, and is low-power (for mobile use), neither of which are needed for a product like the PS100, and that is why they went with the 4493 in the SU1.
 

MCH

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what i find interesting of this (actually, the only thing i find interesting of it) is the USB + HDMI inputs. For this price, i wonder if it is one single chip doing all the tasks. The dac it uses does not have any sort of spdif input, so if there is one single chip that does all that interfacing at this price, i want to know what that is. Has anyone seen the internals?
The 86 TDH+N seems to come directly from the DAC datasheet, the problem is that the same datasheet claims 112 DNR, so the 96 DNR here smells to 16 bit max

edit: hmm, audiophonics specs 24 bits...
Screenshot_2023-08-08-19-18-38-56_c0dc27f5c07cb0fb3541d6073dfd6932.jpg
 
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staticV3

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Considering the CS43131 dongles are ~$40-50
You can buy CS43131 dongles for like $14:
Screenshot_20230808-194354.png

When ordered in bulk (the chip alone), I doubt it would've increased the BOM significantly, especially since the CS43131 is so stupidly easy and cheap to implement.

The benefit of the Cirrus chip is that it has an integrated headphone amp, and is low-power (for mobile use), neither of which are needed for a product like the PS100
Nor are they disadvantageous.
 

Power Pop 23

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Well the quoted specs are as economical as the price:
View attachment 304490

The most interesting part of the PS100 to me is the eARC input.
That might signal eARC becoming commonplace on DACs from SMSL, Sabaj, Topping, etc. soon.
Agreed. This puts the onus on manufacturers to add an (e)ARC HDMI input to their DACs. WiiM seems receptive to adding a USB input to an upcoming streamer. Maybe WiiM would be receptive to adding an (e)ARC HDMI input. I have no idea what it cost to license MQA's technology, but maybe the savings from no longer licensing MQA would defray the cost of adding an (e)ARC HDMI input to a DAC
 

ocinn

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You can buy CS43131 dongles for like $14:
Screenshot_20230808-194354.png
I assumed you were talking about dual-chip models since you mentioned -115 SINAD, which single-chip models (like that $13 one) don't do. To hit those numbers you devices like the Moondrop Dawn or iBasso Dc03 which are dual chip, and $70, not an unknown, untested, and likely poorly implemented $14 Aliexpress dongle. Also as we have seen, implementation can ruin performance

To consistently match the AK4493, you need Dual CS43131, which (even in bulk) is around 4.25x as expensive as the AK4493. This is why I said the real value is the low power and integrated headphone amp, it makes no sense to spend 4.25x as much on DAC chips and not even take advantage of their two most attractive features. Notice how 99% of CS43131 dacs are dongles! This is not just a random coincidence.

The SMSL M300se is the exception.... and it's $100 more than the ps100. And I don't think removing just the screen, bluetooth and remote capability (all other features are either native to the CS, or equal to the Ps100) is going to shave $100 off the MSRP to create your proposed ~$30 CS43131 115+ SINAD, ps100 alternative dac.
 

staticV3

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I assumed you were talking about dual-chip models since you mentioned -115 SINAD, which single-chip models (like that $13 one) don't do. To hit those numbers you need devices like the Moondrop Dawn or iBasso Dc03 which are dual chip, and $70, not an unknown, untested, and likely poorly implemented $14 Aliexpress dongle.
Here are fresh measurements of five different dongles with single CS43131:
Ugreen HiFi Audio Pro 1kHz SINAD.png Meizu HiFi 1kHz SINAD.png Meizu HiFi Pro 1kHz SINAD.png MBQuart MB21P 1kHz SINAD.png JCally JM20 1kHz SINAD.png
Three of them have >114dB SINAD and they all use PCBs the size of your fingernail.

Hitting >115dB SINAD in a desktop device should be fairly easy. After all, that's precisely what Cirrus claim the chip is capable of:
Screenshot 2023-08-08 at 23.52.48.png

Why don't we see more desktop DACs based on the CS43131 and 43198? My guess is that the target audience sees them as inferior to ESS and AKM, so predicted sales would be poor. It's certainly not for a lack of performance.
 
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OP
T

TonyJZX

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i can only come to the conclusion that it comes down to BOM cost

SMSL is doing SMSL things by routing the PC thru the BT chipset

notice how the unit does not have a "hi-res" pc interface like an XU206 etc.?

the ESS 9023 is a very low cost and ancient processor... easily well over a decade... its used in PI hats and the like... maybe SMSL got a screaming deal on these but did not want to spend on a decent PC interface

its a strange choice to even include BT... the SU-1 doesnt have it... unless they thought customers wanted BT over hi-res PC input

and with that as long as sinad is close to CD quality then it doesnt matter... because that's all the PC input is capable of!

I also wonder what support chipset the HDMI I2S needs? or does it just like lines for comms handshake and audio?
 

natna

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Here are fresh measurements of five different dongles with single CS43131:
View attachment 304582 View attachment 304583 View attachment 304584 View attachment 304585 View attachment 304586
Three of them have >114dB SINAD and they all use PCBs the size of your fingernail.

Hitting >115dB SINAD in a desktop device should be fairly easy. After all, that's precisely what Cirrus claim the chip is capable of:
View attachment 304591

Why don't we see more desktop DACs based on the CS43131 and 43198? My guess is that the target audience sees them as inferior to ESS and AKM, so predicted sales would be poor. It's certainly not for a lack of performance.


Can you point me which exactly is the Ugreen hifi audio pro?
Looks promising on test graph (at least for a cheap tablet --> an intergrated)

By the way, Amirm's test on Meizu Hifi pro dongle, is way worse than the one you posted...
 
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TK750

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Here are fresh measurements of five different dongles with single CS43131:
View attachment 304582 View attachment 304583 View attachment 304584 View attachment 304585 View attachment 304586
Three of them have >114dB SINAD and they all use PCBs the size of your fingernail.

Hitting >115dB SINAD in a desktop device should be fairly easy. After all, that's precisely what Cirrus claim the chip is capable of:
View attachment 304591

Why don't we see more desktop DACs based on the CS43131 and 43198? My guess is that the target audience sees them as inferior to ESS and AKM, so predicted sales would be poor. It's certainly not for a lack of performance.

Looks like Topping have been listening to you! Seems they felt the need to chuck 8 of them in, it's going for $600.


8087210.jpg

8087211.jpg

8087230.jpg


(More pics/details on that page, didn't feel there was much point copying any more across)

Out of interest do you know anyone that has measured the new moondrop dawn pro yet? It's currently going for $44 reduced from $50 on most of the usual sites and looks like a great deal. I'd expect it to measure as well as all the other dual cirrus dongles that have come out recently but would be nice to confirm.
 

DearSX

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That is a great price and performs better than the average amplifier it may be connected to. $80 DACs are one way to get close to SotA, but this is not bad at all.
 
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