SMSL M400 Balanced USB MQA DAC Review

[Volikovvv]

Good luck - I suspect you will need it.
Have you tried playing music at different frequencies through it ?

No, most of the time i used to listen to 44.1 and 48khz, i will try and share my experience

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Looks like i'm banned in google - lol, did not saw this page, thank you, will write about the unit there. About the way i talk, sorry for i don't want to offend someone. Just very angry about this situation, thank you for response and advice!

Less than stellar support is something which comes with ChiFi, and should be factored in before purchase, unfortunately.

 

[BDWoody]

Less than stellar support is something which comes with ChiFi, and should be factored in before purchase, unfortunately.

Let's stay away from using the term 'ChiFi' please.

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/lets-avoid-the-term-chi-fi.18243/

 

[Volikovvv]

Less than stellar support is something which comes with ChiFi, and should be factored in before purchase, unfortunately.

In fact, I have already quietly said goodbye to my money, since from my communication with the seller it seemed to me that I should not rely on anything.

 

[misterdog]

Though support costs, people prefer to save than spend. Even going through a distributor adds 30/100 % in cost.
As the above example shows the latest purchase gets the blame even though the problem is invariably with the customer or his equipment.

 

[Volikovvv]

As the above example shows the latest purchase gets the blame even though the problem is invariably with the customer or his equipment.

Are you saying the problem is with me or my equipment? Please answer the question - why then connected today to the same chain: denafrips ares 2 dac or allo revolution dac does not have this issues? and only m400 have? Could you please clarify your point of view? Looks like something personal goes through this issue with m400

 

[misterdog]

In fact, I have already quietly said goodbye to my money, since from my communication with the seller it seemed to me that I should not rely on anything.

Though you seem convinced there is a problem with the DAC input, even though two people on here have implied it is more likely a problem with the PC output, switching from Skype to You Tube to Foobar.

Have you tested music with different frequencies yet ?

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Are you saying the problem is with me or my equipment? Please answer the question - why then connected today to the same chain: denafrips ares 2 dac or allo revolution dac does not have this issues? and only m400 have? Could you please clarify your point of view? Looks like something personal goes through this issue with m400

We don't really know the source of the problem, and unfortunately there is no phone number for the manufacturer one can call if there is a problem.

 

[Volikovvv]

Though you seem convinced there is a problem with the DAC input, even though two people on here have implied it is more likely a problem with the PC output, switching from Skype to You Tube to Foobar.

Have you tested music with different frequencies yet ?

Not yet, i'm currently testing denafrips ares 2 dac, smsl was packed to the box, a tried to fix this issue for full three days and i tired. Later i will check this. Maybe language barrier was the case of understanding your post.

We don't really know the source of the problem, and unfortunately there is no phone number for the manufacturer one can call if there is a problem.

Ok, i understand, but from my point of view, in case when two dacs work's properly without glitches of freezes and the third make sound stream - freeze, i think there is the issue with the dac, that is my understanding of things.

I specified that i tried different pc's, drivers and equipment swap, issue reproduce only with this exact unit, maybe i did not told that clear enough, sorry for that. Sorry for misreading maybe. But misterdog, i hope for your response for scenario in which to other devices work properly and only this one leads to freezes until reboot, but i think i just asked for the wrong place, especially in case when you are developer of this thing, in this case your responses feels ok, i understand.

From my point of view, situation is simple, i own different windows based pc's, and there is no issues with other devices, even smsl m8a worked properly in this scenario, but this one behaves not the same way as others, make me reboot the dac 7-10 times per day, through these three days of use i tried multiple settings with no luck. Issue reproduce every time when dac switch between sampling rates(44.1 and 48khz)And after that you think that the problem in customer, sorry to hear that. I think very important to be honest in this case, if you are developer of this thing, it's ok. In first post i specified that i ready to send evidences and details to private messages, but no luck... no one asked for that... ah, never mind, sorry for disturbance.

 

[Harmonie]

Maybe somebody from SMSL official contact persons are here, please assist.

Did you check SMSL people via the Members search engine ?
If you start typing smsl ... or rather @SMSL ...
Oh, here you are

@SMSL-Mandy
@SMSL_Liu

But first isolate the issue and make sure it's really about your dac and not your computer.

Good luck.

 

[pinky-me]

@Vilikovvv try a different amplifier. My m400 is connected directly to a tpa3251 without any buffer (just DC blocking caps) and it drives it to fault condition on every rate change. I suspect a buffer would absorb whatever junk the dac spews on clock changes but if your amp doesn't have one it could be the amp that's not producing sound.

 

[Volikovvv]

@Vilikovvv try a different amplifier. My m400 is connected directly to a tpa3251 without any buffer (just DC blocking caps) and it drives it to fault condition on every rate change. I suspect a buffer would absorb whatever junk the dac spews on clock changes but if your amp doesn't have one it could be the amp that's not producing sound.

Thank you for reply, this case sounds more realistic, i will try - thanks!

 

[misterdog]

unfortunately there is no phone number for the manufacturer one can call if there is a problem.

See my post 659.

 

[misterdog]

but this one behaves not the same way as others

Could it be that the M400 has an AKM 4499 DAC chip which is non oversampling ?

https://sw1xad.co.uk/technology_post/delta-sigma-vs-non-oversampling-r2r-dac-designs/

Where your other DACS are.

I'm no DAC engineer and have no affiliation to SMSL other than ownership. However I have been around digital audio for long enough to know that you don't point your finger and say 'this is broken, and rubbish' after 3 days of ownership.
Without spending some time analysing the issue.

This is a science based forum.

 

[Risc1911]

From my point of view, situation is simple, i own different windows based pc's, and there is no issues with other devices, even smsl m8a worked properly in this scenario, but this one behaves not the same way as others, make me reboot the dac 7-10 times per day, through these three days of use i tried multiple settings with no luck. Issue reproduce every time when dac switch between sampling rates(44.1 and 48khz)And after that you think that the problem in customer, sorry to hear that. I think very important to be honest in this case, if you are developer of this thing, it's ok. In first post i specified that i ready to send evidences and details to private messages, but no luck... no one asked for that... ah, never mind, sorry for disturbance.

Could it be that the M400 has an AKM 4499 DAC chip which is non oversampling ?

https://sw1xad.co.uk/technology_post/delta-sigma-vs-non-oversampling-r2r-dac-designs/

This is a science based forum.

Let's do some science then.

I incidentally have this DAC at home right now and did some testing. I can reproduce a lockup under specific conditions.

1. Installed XMOS USB drivers for ASIO
2. Default sound Device for windows set to the DAC (This is not ASIO naturally)
3. Play foobar using the ASIO device
4. Start a youtube video
5. Nothing happens and the display shows 44.1khz
6. This deadlock can be resolved in a few ways:

A. Stop foobar (or whatever uses the ASIO) and change output bitrate/freq on the Windows sound control panel of the device. It triggers an exclusivity message even though you disabled exclusivity in windows.
B. switch inputs on the DAC
C. disable/enable or unplug/replug the USB cable/device

Additional Nugget of Wisdom: I also have a Questyle CMA400i that uses XMOS ASIO and i can reproduce the issue with that one too.

Additional SMSL Problems:
The Questyle windows driver switches the sampling frequency according to source and the LEDs on the DAC reflect that. The SMSL Does not, at least the display does not change from 192khz.
Setting the SMSL default format in windows to anything above 192khz and any bitrate will cause an error in foobar: (Unrecoverable playback error: The parameter is incorrect. (0x80070057))

Conclusion: This seems to be by design. ASIO locks the device. The other Problems with the SMSL driver are however a software issue and it would be nice if @SMSL-Mandy @SMSL_Liu could take this info to their devs and maybe get an update done.

Scienced the hell out of it.

 

[misterdog]

Did you use the Thesycon ASIO driver provided by SMSL ?

 

[Risc1911]

Did you use the Thesycon ASIO driver provided by SMSL ?

Yes i used the drivers provided by both SMSL and Questyle not some generic one.

I don't know if the NOT switching of frequencies is an issue sound wise or technically. Maybe someone can chime in and let us know. The higher than 192khz issue is a problem though i would think.

 

[Volikovvv]

Scienced the hell out of it.

Looks like quality assurance engineer from smsl: good level of device issue knowledge Thank you for reply and investigation. Lock by your steps to reproduce appears with denafrips ares too, my case with m400 is different. This case looks like - as designed, my scenario looks as like an absurd. I will move unit to local repair service center next week, i will share the conclusion here. Thanks all of your for response! Im tired of suffering with unit and let professionals see what is the problem and fix it. Currently im using ares 2 which sounds good and experience no issues with usability, hope this experience will not change

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I haven't had these issues, but then again I use either J River or Audirvana and do upsampling in them.

 

[misterdog]

Yes i used the drivers provided by both SMSL and Questyle not some generic one.

Interesting, my Thesycon ASIO driver is unavailable since a Windows 10 update a few weeks back. I've tried reinstalling it a couple of times but does not show as available in JRiver.
I'm using WASAPI out which John Yang said was as good.