SMSL DL200 the best ever value DAC/AMP?

[zonk]

Indeed. Not to mention the potential problems with warranty and shipping costs in case something goes wrong (broken unit f.exmp).

I live in EU and only buy from European resellers because of warranty issues.

Hifiman has a warehouse/shipping center in Europe. I have bought in the Hifiman store a headphone and there is absolutely nothing to complain. I was just wondering about the high shipping fee within Europe. After the purchase I contacted once the Hifiman support and they were very friendly and very helpful.

I would defenitely buy there again.

The only downside is if you buy for example an open box HE400SE for 89$ and at checkout you have this high shipping costs of 49$ additionally on your bill.

I saw today that on Amazon there is a Hifiman shop as well.

 

[Yersinia Bestmate]

Hifiman has a warehouse/shipping center in Europe. I have bought in the Hifiman store a headphone and there is absolutely nothing to complain. I was just wondering about the high shipping fee within Europe. After the purchase I contacted once the Hifiman support and they were very friendly and very helpful.

I would defenitely buy there again.

The only downside is if you buy for example an open box HE400SE for 89$ and at checkout you have this high shipping costs of 49$ additionally on your bill.

I saw today that on Amazon there is a Hifiman shop as well.

Thanks for the info, I'll look into it.

 

[dengar69]

The DL200 headphone output is 2.5 V RMS at low gain and 11 dB higher in high gain which is 8.87 V RMS. The power at 16 Ohm and 32 Ohm for both is 2x3 W and 2x1.5 W, respectively. The DL200's power at 300 Ohm is 2*200 mW which corresponds to a voltage of (200*300/1000)^.5 = 7.75 V. Thus, it has marginally higher power than the DL100 at high impedance loads.

However, the noise floor of the DL100's headphone output is around 20*log10(7.5) - 126 = -108.5 dBV, i.e. SNR at 50 mV is only around 20*log10(.05) - (20*log10(7.5)-126) = 82.5 dB, but the noise floor of the DL200 in low gain is 20*log10(2.5) - 125 = -117.0 dBV, i.e. SNR at 50 mV is around 20*log10(.05) - (20*log10(2.5)-125) = 91.0 dB.

So I read all your calculus formulas and I still can’t figure out if it will drive the HE6SE V2 which I’m looking to buy (2w@50ohms). Can it? Thanks.

 

[JIW]

So I read all your calculus formulas and I still can’t figure out if it will drive the HE6SE V2 which I’m looking to buy (2w@50ohms). Can it? Thanks.

The HE-6SE V2 have a sensitivity of 83.5 dB SPL at 1 mW and an impedance of 50 Ohm. The DL200 can produce 2 x 1.5 W at 32 Ohm which translates to at least 2 x 1.5*32/50 = 2 x 0.96 W = 2 x 960 mW. Thus, max peak SPL on the DL200 is at least 83.5 + 10*log10(960) + 10*log10(2) = 116.33 dB. If that is enough is up to you. For most people and most cases it should be.

 

[Dunring]

So I read all your calculus formulas and I still can’t figure out if it will drive the HE6SE V2 which I’m looking to buy (2w@50ohms). Can it? Thanks.

I have a DL200 (with an A70Pro on top of it) and the 50ohm and 68 ohm HE6se. The DL200 on it's own will power them, but not to party fun/favorite song volumes. Also if you equalize with a preamp reduction, and some pre volume war songs aren't going to get loud enough. You'll be almost there, but it gets frustrating unless you use modest volume levels and don't equalize in a way that needs a preamp reduction.

If you want the worst case scenario for those headphones, I use:
Autoeq profile with a -6.9db preamp reduction and
Genesis: Tonight, Tonight, Tonight extended version. 2 minutes into it, try to get the quiet part loud enough.
I have a dozen amplifiers and all in ones. Only the SMSL H400 and Topping A70Pro can do the above without running out of volume wheel in high gain with a 5 volt DAC. It includes the A90 and A90D Discrete.

I really like the DL200 as a DAC and also to keep pair of headphones on them so I can swap out amplifiers and always have something handy. If your amplifier ever fails, you've got an instant backup ready to use in the meantime. One other cool thing about it, it's USB C, so an optical USB cable can plug right into it for a really quiet noise floor.

 

[ext23]

Damn, so many new products coming out. That H400 has frankly hilarious levels of power lol. The DL200 ought to have more than enough power for any dynamic driver headphones though.

 

[JIW]

I just checked Amir's review of the HE6se. He measures sensitivity as 94 dB SPL at 1.37 V at an impedance of 64 Ohm. Thus, at 1 mW it produces 94 - 20*log10(1.370) + 10*log10(64/1000) = 79.3 dB. Max peak SPL with DL200 is thus only 94 - 20*log10(1.370) + 10*log10(64/1000) + 10*log10(960) + 10*log10(2) = 112.1 dB SPL.

 

[JIW]

I have a DL200 (with an A70Pro on top of it) and the 50ohm and 68 ohm HE6se. The DL200 on it's own will power them, but not to party fun/favorite song volumes. Also if you equalize with a preamp reduction, and some pre volume war songs aren't going to get loud enough. You'll be almost there, but it gets frustrating unless you use modest volume levels and don't equalize in a way that needs a preamp reduction.

If you want the worst case scenario for those headphones, I use:
Autoeq profile with a -6.9db preamp reduction and
Genesis: Tonight, Tonight, Tonight extended version. 2 minutes into it, try to get the quiet part loud enough.
I have a dozen amplifiers and all in ones. Only the SMSL H400 and Topping A70Pro can do the above without running out of volume wheel in high gain with a 5 volt DAC. It includes the A90 and A90D Discrete.

I really like the DL200 as a DAC and also to keep pair of headphones on them so I can swap out amplifiers and always have something handy. If your amplifier ever fails, you've got an instant backup ready to use in the meantime. One other cool thing about it, it's USB C, so an optical USB cable can plug right into it for a really quiet noise floor.

The A90 and A90D have a rated power of 2 x 2 W at 32 Ohm which is only 10*log10(2/1.5) = 1.25 dB higher than the DL200. However, while DL200 has a maximum voltage output of 20*log10(2.5) + 11 = 18.96 dBV, the A90 and A90D in high gain of 9.5 dB connected to a 5V DAC would have a maximum voltage output of 20*log10(5) + 9.5 = 23.48 dBV but both are limited to 25 Vpp which is 20*log10(25/(2^1.5)) = 18.93 dBV which is just slightly lower than the DL200. Thus, at full volume in high gain, the volume is the same if neither amplifier is overloaded.

The A70Pro has a rated power of 2 x 3 W at 32 Ohm which is only 10*log10(3/1.5) = 3.01 dB higher. The high gain on the A70Pro is 13.9 dB which connected to a 5 V DAC would give a maximum voltage output of 20*log10(5) + 13.9 = 27.88 dBV but it is limited to 27.6 Vpp which is 20*log10(27.6/(2^1.5)) = 19.78 dBV which less than 1 dB higher than the DL200. Thus, at full volume in high gain, the volume is just slightly higher using the A70Pro if neither amplifier is overloaded.

The H400 has a rated power of 2 x 7.5 W at 32 Ohm which is only 10*log10(7.5/1.5) = 6.99 dB higher. The high gain on the H400 is 14.4 dB which connected to a 5 V DAC would give a maximum voltage output of 20*log10(5) + 14.4 = 28.38 dBV but it is limited to the voltage corresponding to 550 mW into 600 Ohm which is 10*log10(550*600/1000) = 25.16 dBV which is more than 6 dB higher than the DL200. Thus, the H400 is the only amplifier that gives a significantly higher volume than the DL200 at full volume in high gain if neither amplifier is overloaded.

All this is of course for the 6.35 mm TRS output on the amplifiers.

 

[JIW]

@Dunring, based on this post in the H400 thread, you seem to use the XLR output.

The A90 is rated at 2 x 6.4 W at 32 Ohm which is 10*log10(6.4/1.5) = 6.30 dB higher than the DL200. The A90D is rated at 2 x 6.7 W at 32 Ohm which is 10*log10(6.7/1.5) = 6.50 dB higher than the DL200. The A90 and A90D in high gain of 15.5 dB connected to a 5V DAC would have a maximum voltage output of 20*log10(5) + 15.5 = 28.48 dBV but both are limited to 49 Vpp which is 20*log10(49/(2^1.5)) = 24.77 dBV.

The A70Pro is rated at 2 x 12.6 W at 32 Ohm which is 10*log10(12.6/1.5) = 9.24 dB higher than the DL200. The high gain on the A70Pro is 19.9 dB which connected to a 5 V DAC would give a maximum voltage output of 20*log10(5) + 19.9 = 33.88 dBV but it is limited to 54 Vpp which is 20*log10(54/(2^1.5)) = 25.62 dBV.

The H400 has a rated power of 2 x 7.5 W at 32 Ohm which is 10*log10(7.5/1.5) = 6.99 dB higher than the DL200. The high gain on the H400 is 20.4 dB which connected to a 5 V DAC would give a maximum voltage output of 20*log10(5) + 20.4 = 34.38 dBV but it is limited to the voltage corresponding to 550 mW into 600 Ohm which is 10*log10(550*600/1000) = 25.16 dBV.

In terms of maximum voltage output, there is no significant difference between any of the amplifiers. In terms of power, the A90 and A90D are essentially the same as the H400 at 32 Ohm. Only the A70Pro has significantly more power. The main difference between both the A90 and A90d and both the A70Pro and H400 is the gain being 5.4 and 5.9 dB higher in the latter.

 

[Dunring]

Here's a measurement from the real world, which is where I live. It's decibel meter reading from a Topping A70Pro in high gain with the 68ohm Hifiman HE6SE playing 3:34 into Tonight, tonight, tonight by Genesis with a -6.3db preamp reduction from an Autoeq profile at maximum volume. It's loud, but not the loudest I've ever had a pair of headphones like in my younger days. It's on a Tascam stereo mic set to a 90 degree spread and the ear cups held together on the pop filter. It's a live playback so of course during music the channels constantly off. There's not much that can let you safely put an A70Pro at 0db listening to music, but this is one example.
There's times to read specs and manuals and do equations, and there's time to use the things under real world conditions for validation.

 

[staticV3]

Here's a measurement from the real world, which is where I live. It's decibel meter reading

Your decibel meter seems to read dBFS, which would make it utterly useless for judging loudness

Depending on how your tascam is set up, that meter could max out with you merely whispering into the mic. There's just no relation to absolute volume.

 

[JIW]

Here's a measurement from the real world, which is where I live. It's decibel meter reading from a Topping A70Pro in high gain with the 68ohm Hifiman HE6SE playing 3:34 into Tonight, tonight, tonight by Genesis with a -6.3db preamp reduction from an Autoeq profile at maximum volume. It's loud, but not the loudest I've ever had a pair of headphones like in my younger days. It's on a Tascam stereo mic set to a 90 degree spread and the ear cups held together on the pop filter. It's a live playback so of course during music the channels constantly off. There's not much that can let you safely put an A70Pro at 0db listening to music, but this is one example.
There's times to read specs and manuals and do equations, and there's time to use the things under real world conditions for validation.

View attachment 384395

The below measurement gives at least 10*log10(196*4/1000*300) = 23.71 dBV max voltage for the A90.

The below measurement gives 20*log10(20) = 26.02 dBV max voltage for the A90D.

The below measurement gives 20*log10(20) = 26.02 dBV max voltage for the A70Pro. The same as the A90D.

Whatever the sensitivity of the HE6se, the difference in volume between the A90D and A70Pro is through gain.

 

[stachox]

I fixed the problem with the usb 1.1. I have to have the dac already open when I turn on the pc. otherwise the usb is not recognized correctly. it goes to 1.1. If the dac is on when i turn on the pc it goes to 2.0. weird. Now i have another problem. The knob doesnt change the volume. Yesterday it did. If i reset the settings, its working again... wtf

I had exactly the same problem and when I tried to adjust the volume with the remote control, after exceeding the number 9, a1, a2, a3 appeared on the display ... but the volume did not increase. Additionally, it would sometimes turn on by itself during computer startup. I returned it to Amazon and got a refund.

 

[josiah]

@stachox, that's horrible. I really like this unit. I have noticed that the software doesn't seem to get as many updates as topping. This unit checked all the boxes for what I need. I hope mine lasts. Glad you were able to get a refund. I'm well over the return period.

 

[half_dog]

@SMSL-Mandy could you give us some help here?

 

[ext23]

I have noticed that once an album finishes playing on Spotify, my DL200 stops responding. I have to switch my Windows audio output to the monitor (or whatever) and then back to the DL200 to get it to start working again.

In case anybody else is having this issue, I think I resolved it by switching the sample rate in Windows. I had it maxed out at 32-bit/384kHz (not sure why the 796kHz option wasn't there...). I noticed that some games weren't playing audio at this setting. Dropping it down to 32-bit/44.1kHz or 48kHz fixed audio in games and also seems to have fixed Spotify's "false starts."

Also, what's the consensus on the filters for the DL200? I want to set-and-forget it, I've been using FL3 (95% music listening, 5% gaming).

 

[JIW]

In case anybody else is having this issue, I think I resolved it by switching the sample rate in Windows. I had it maxed out at 32-bit/384kHz (not sure why the 796kHz option wasn't there...). I noticed that some games weren't playing audio at this setting. Dropping it down to 32-bit/44.1kHz or 48kHz fixed audio in games and also seems to have fixed Spotify's "false starts."

Also, what's the consensus on the filters for the DL200? I want to set-and-forget it, I've been using FL3 (95% music listening, 5% gaming).

FL3 and FL4 are the best all-around filters. If you need low latency for gaming, use FL2 or FL7.

 

[ext23]

FL3 and FL4 are the best all-around filters. If you need low latency for gaming, use FL2 or FL7.

I don't have the amp with me right now, but what's the theoretical difference in sound between FL3 and FL4? I don't mean "Linear phase apodizing fast roll-off" or "Linear phase fast roll-off low ripple" or whatever they may be, I mean what is the audible end result?

 

[JIW]

I don't have the amp with me right now, but what's the theoretical difference in sound between FL3 and FL4? I don't mean "Linear phase apodizing fast roll-off" or "Linear phase fast roll-off low ripple" or whatever they may be, I mean what is the audible end result?

FL4 extends to 20.5 kHz whereas FL3 only extends to 18.5 kHz. If you can still hear frequencies that high you may hear it.

 

[josiah]

I prefer FL6. I say listen to familiar audio through your equipment and decide. I am sure there is technical reasons people say FL3 and FL4; however, I prefer FL6 for my setup.