Sennheiser HD 598 SE* Review (headphone)

[Robbo99999]

Very valid point, and i knew the limitations of using Amir EQ with a HD598 with the original stock pads, it may not work, but anyways i tried it and i can hear a huge improvement. Yes i am not and expert in this area, that boominess they are talking about? I was oblivious to it, after 12 year of using this headphones on and off, but when they point out the issue, it was clear in my face and yes i compare to my other headphones which clearly do not have the issue (K371, Focal Elex, aenon DT). i was wondering how the heck I never realize this...yeah oh well...just an aficionado here

K371 should be a nice Harman comparison as it tracks really well the Harman Curve, apart from a dip in part of the treble. Regarding your 598, I can see some evidence (from solderdude's post) of Amir's EQ luckily helping some elements of your headphone, but particularly as seen in this review/thread you'd be better off using Oratory's EQ for your 598 because it's based on stock pads so will be closer to your headphones true frequency response.....and therefore the EQ is more representative/valid.

 

[amirm]

Come on Amir.

Plenty of people have posted measurements with the stock pads that show a radically different frequency response. From first principles it is overwhelmingly likely that replacing that replacing a firm velour pad with with a cushy leather one will have a radical effect on the frequency response of a headphone.

Assuming you would get a similar frequency response with the stock pads is itself an improbable conjecture.

You missed the point of my post. Someone saying they like a different model headphone than the one I tested (non-SE) and the immediate explanation is that there must be something wrong with my measurements? No, it means that he liked the sound for whatever reason. It has no probative value or backing of pad differences. Don't over-reach if you don't want me to call you on it.

 

[amirm]

Well, I can speak from experience how much pads can and do affect the frequency response. With the Hifiman HE-500, it’s crazy how different pads sound from each other because of the different materials and sealing to the cup. Y

This headphone seals very well and bass response correlates just as well with other measurements. Any pad differences would not occur in this region for this reason.

 

[amirm]

I think it goes against the flow of evidence shown in this thread. That your measurement differed a lot from other measurements of the same headphone combined with the fact you're using an aftermarket pad that's made of a different material. So I don't think the guy that I responded to can really judge whether he "should" or "shouldn't" like this headphone based on your review, so he shouldn't be surprised. (I'm not gonna go through all the posts & evidence that other people have presented in this thread - it's already there.)

What he said is neither here nor there. It is not an objective data point. You can't just grab and run with it as you did. Or else we would not measure anything if that is all you need to make judgements on.

 

[amirm]

Surely a company like Sennheiser who has measured and tested everything with stock pads made sure they perform best with those intended pads.

There is no such factor or we would just bless every Sennheiser headphone and be done with it. We test because there is not one company so far that does a perfect job with their headphone designs. You are also assuming a different pad would measure differently and that is not on record either. A bunch of guesses, sure. But not on record with my measurements and setup.

 

[MusicNBeer]

I bought these a while back off Amazon on a Black Friday deal. They do indeed suck without major equalization. The boomy bass is unbearable. I have no idea what engineer would develop these and stick with it. They sound way worse than cheap earbuds.

 

[Chocomel]

There is no such factor or we would just bless every Sennheiser headphone and be done with it. We test because there is not one company so far that does a perfect job with their headphone designs. You are also assuming a different pad would measure differently and that is not on record either. A bunch of guesses, sure. But not on record with my measurements and setup.

Assuming significantly different pads will measure significantly different is a very safe assumption. It's more or less akin to assuming speakers will measure differently in two different rooms.

 

[amirm]

Assuming significantly different pads will measure significantly different is a very safe assumption.

Not in my book. These pads are not significantly different either. If there is such massive difference due to pads, then measurements need to use calibrated pressure as to keep their shape in certain manner. And you best use them the same way. You think these are safe assumptions?

Assuming significantly different pads will measure significantly different is a very safe assumption. It's more or less akin to assuming speakers will measure differently in two different rooms.

Above transition frequencies, speakers will measure very similarly to their anechoic measurements or we would not bother optimizing that. What happens below transition is due to dimensions of the room. This happens in headphones at very high frequencies due to small chamber. So no, you can't use this analogy.

 

[Mad_Economist]

Not in my book. These pads are not significantly different either. If there is such massive difference due to pads, then measurements need to use calibrated pressure as to keep their shape in certain manner. And you best use them the same way. You think these are safe assumptions?

I direct you to my post here - all data came from my G.R.A.S./Knowles KEMAR 45BB, and, in respect to your preferences, are not the product of a spatial average.

If there is additional data you would like, I have a fairly large number of "acoustically different" (varying dimensions, leakiness, materials) pads, and a number of open front, open rear, open/connecting baffle ("integrated open") moving coil headphones, but the HD600 really is a fairly close counterpart.

Edit: Managed to forget which HATS I used between posts - whoops.

Edit 2: The question of suitable clamping pressure is a quite interesting one - it impacts both coupling (and thus low-frequency behavior) and pad compression/volume/dimensions (which can have wider ranging impacts). In my opinion, it's among the best cases against "ear on a plate" style couplers, which are otherwise a very cost-efficient alternative to a HATS.

 

[Chocomel]

Not in my book. These pads are not significantly different either. If there is such massive difference due to pads, then measurements need to use calibrated pressure as to keep their shape in certain manner. And you best use them the same way. You think these are safe assumptions?

The different pad material alone makes the pads significantly different.

Above transition frequencies, speakers will measure very similarly to their anechoic measurements or we would not bother optimizing that. What happens below transition is due to dimensions of the room. This happens in headphones at very high frequencies due to small chamber. So no, you can't use this analogy.

For overear headphones the transition is around 2khz or so "loudspeaker and headphone handbook: headphones chapter by C. A. Poldy"
Of course depends on the dimensions which is part of the point here, but below that different pads can and do still have a significant influence due to their different acoustic impedance amongst other things.

 

[julian_hughes]

I bought a pair of these on Black Friday 2015. I was so disappointed on hearing them. I ebayed them and made my money back. They are the worst sounding Sennheiser I've heard. Worse than the HD500 they replaced and worse than the similarly muffled PX100 II. There are so many glowing reviews of this headphone but it just sounds horrible. The measurements and description here fully match my experience and serve as a reminder that reviews without measurements are usually not reviews but just marketing bs, bought & paid for.
I recall that Tyll Hertsens at InnerFidelity received a pair of these and found them so poor that they didn't merit a review, only a passing mention that they were really poor.

 

[Helicopter]

I am glad some folks are enjoying this product with EQ. Too bad this headphone (like most discontinued ones) is so unimportant to me. I am much more interested in products that are new to market. If this were Focal Clear MG with aftermarket pads, and OEM pads were $37, I would totally beg Amir to measure it with stock pads and offer to buy them.

 

[maverickronin]

You missed the point of my post. Someone saying they like a different model headphone than the one I tested (non-SE)

The only difference is the color. This is basically "common knowledge" in the headphone community and has been confirmed by 3rd party measurement. This example from earlier in the thread is most readily at hand.

Here you have it right from the horse's mouth:

Oratory allowed quoting this, and wanted to specify that this is absolutely not an attack on Amir. Me posting this is not an attempt to attack Amir either, FWIW, just a wish to get the facts straight so everyone can be happy.

and the immediate explanation is that there must be something wrong with my measurements?

There's nothing wrong with your measurements. It's what was measured. It is no longer representative of the stock product.

 

[Robbo99999]

You missed the point of my post. Someone saying they like a different model headphone than the one I tested (non-SE) and the immediate explanation is that there must be something wrong with my measurements? No, it means that he liked the sound for whatever reason. It has no probative value or backing of pad differences. Don't over-reach if you don't want me to call you on it.

What he said is neither here nor there. It is not an objective data point. You can't just grab and run with it as you did. Or else we would not measure anything if that is all you need to make judgements on.

You're just deflecting by pointing out a possible but lesser variable of importance in the scheme of things of what we have control over within the frame of the obvious issues associated with your review of this headphone.

Amir, as a general comment in this thread, you're pushing back so much on established (& non-argumentative) and well informed members here on a well-understood topic, ie that pads can massively change frequency response, and specifically the contrast of velour vs pleather pads which is the swap you did for this headphone. You have a history of pushing back, and it makes sense that you have to stand up to what you currently understand and to have integrity in your viewpoints/knowledge, but not everyone can be right all the time unless you count yourself as knowing more of everything under the sun than everyone else....so there's always gonna be some occasions (no matter how rare or common) where there's an opportunity to understand & accept someone else's evidence/viewpoint/theory/fact, and I'm sure that this is one of those times. There is no weakness in acknowledging an error or misjudgement and amending/backtracking & putting right - if anything it's a strength and one that would be respected by the members & readers.

 

[oversky]

In AutoEq Ranking webpage,
Koss Porta Pro with Yaxi earpads has better score.

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/blob/master/results/RANKING.md

Over-ear table includes headphones measured by oratory1990 and Crinacle using GRAS systems.

Name Score STD (dB) Slope
Koss Porta Pro (Yaxi earpads) 69 2.85 -0.62
Koss Porta Pro 46 3.55 -1.5

 

[Shazb0t]

You're just deflecting by pointing out a possible but lesser variable of importance in the scheme of things of what we have control over within the frame of the obvious issues associated with your review of this headphone.

Amir, as a general comment in this thread, you're pushing back so much on established (& non-argumentative) and well informed members here on a well-understood topic, ie that pads can massively change frequency response, and specifically the contrast of velour vs pleather pads which is the swap you did for this headphone. You have a history of pushing back, and it makes sense that you have to stand up to what you currently understand and to have integrity in your viewpoints/knowledge, but not everyone can be right all the time unless you count yourself as knowing more of everything under the sun than everyone else....so there's always gonna be some occasions (no matter how rare or common) where there's an opportunity to understand & accept someone else's evidence/viewpoint/theory/fact, and I'm sure that this is one of those times. There is no weakness in acknowledging an error or misjudgement and amending/backtracking & putting right - if anything it's a strength and one that would be respected by the members & readers.

I don't really agree that properly made pads massively change the frequency response. They affect the seal so can have some impact on measured bass, but in my experience pad rolling has never turned one headphone into another. There are changes, but they're more subtle than people lead you to believe on forums. I'd like to see more research done on pads and how they actually affect driver frequency response. I'm not as swayed by pad vendor measurements or uncontrolled diy stuff.

 

[julian_hughes]

Also bear in mind that these headphones sound truly horrible with their original pads.

 

[solderdude]

Some pads on some headphones have a profound difference, some pads on some headphones have little to no difference.

Nothing debatable about that. Facts of life.

Amir measured a headphone he received. It came with unknown aftermarket pads. Owner didn't like it. Asked Amir to measure it.

Now... Amir could have just reported this to the owner or post it with the info of non standard pads. Amir mentioned this (including the unknown pads and the original ones were not included).
Of course readers can bitch about it that it isn't representative for ' stock' ones. And it isn't.

Then 8 pages of back and forth about the pads.
Pads can and in this case most likely DO make a difference.
People want measurements of a stock one (one that is no longer sold and already measured enough).
If folks want it measured stock they should send Amir the pads and ask him to also measure it with the stock pads or stop whining about it.

The measurement is of an older, obsolete, model with unknown after market pads... take the review for what it is not what some want it to be.
When you want it to be send in a stock one yourself.

 

[skyfly]

A while ago, I returned HD599. Compared to Bose QC15, its tonality was not good to my ears: bloated upper bass and lower mid.
HD598 seems to have a similar character: bloated 100 - 300 Hz.

The bloating in upper bass and lower midis less pronounced on HD650. I did not return HD650.

I also returned Sennheiser's pro headphone (I forgot the model number). It had recessed upper bass and lower mid - the opposite of HD599 -, too much so for me.

Headphones even from the same brand sound very different. Bose QC15 and QC3 were also very different. It is hard to believe they are from the same brand.

 

[Chocomel]

I don't really agree that properly made pads massively change the frequency response. They affect the seal so can have some impact on measured bass, but in my experience pad rolling has never turned one headphone into another. There are changes, but they're more subtle than people lead you to believe on forums. I'd like to see more research done on pads and how they actually affect driver frequency response. I'm not as swayed by pad vendor measurements or uncontrolled diy stuff.

Here's some more examples of different pads significantly changing the frequency response of various headphones.