Sealed speakers VS ported

[Mackie]

An observation from a bass player.

I've noticed that I seem to prefer the bass response on sealed speakers over ported ones.
Bass guitar notes appear tighter , have more texture, definition and notes just appear to be more even sounding through the range of a bass guitar.
With ported designs I always seem to hear some bass notes louder or weaker.

Are ported designs generally less accurate in bass response or have I just not listened to the right speakers?

 

[Jim Shaw]

An observation from a bass player.

I've noticed that I seem to prefer the bass response on sealed speakers over ported ones.
Bass guitar notes appear tighter , have more texture, definition and notes just appear to be more even sounding through the range of a bass guitar.
With ported designs I always seem to hear some bass notes louder or weaker.

Are ported designs generally less accurate in bass response or have I just not listened to the right speakers?

This is my observation, too. If you take a look at several measurements of subwoofers, the answer lies there. And the measurements tend to follow the math and physics of subwoofers. Physics-wise, ported and sealed subwoofers function rather differently. Each type has some advantages and disadvantages.

Very generally, ported subs are chosen for home theatres and kick-drum-heavy music because they provide a maximum of "thud" impact, and most movie LFEs are sound effects rather than musical. Sealed subs have tighter, broader damping but not such efficiency or SPL per watt. Their frequency response tends to slope off gradually with decreasing frequency, making them sound truer to music. They are less inclined to give out strong one or two-note bass around the resonant frequency of the cone-enclosure.

Musicians are pretty certain to hear the differences, as you have. Good observation, I think.

 

[sweetchaos]

Ported speakers extend to lower frequencies, which excite more room modes, which cause more frequency boosts, which cause bass to be perceived as slower/bloated.

Simple fix is to apply PEQ below the room transition frequency (aka Schroeder frequency).

 

[dasdoing]

look at this subwoofer which has 2 ported and one selaed modes:

this is the group delay, which means those spiking frequencies are delayed.
in this case this wouldn't be audible with a bass guitar which wont have significant output that deep. but the smaller the woofer of the ported speaker the higher in frrequency these delay bumps go.
so what you are hearing is time distorsion since suddenly the midrange of the bass-note is slightly ahead. since you can compare to the real world the diference will sound unatural to you

 

[voodooless]

In general, to make a true comparison, you’ll need to EQ the response of both systems to the same target curve.

I think your be quite hard pressed to hear the difference within the limits of both systems.

this is the group delay, which means those spiking frequencies are delayed.

Group delay is a function of frequency response in a minimum phase system. If you were to EQ them the same, the group delays would be the same as well.

 

[Mackie]

Ported speakers extend to lower frequencies, which excite more room modes, which cause more frequency boosts, which cause bass to be perceived as slower/bloated.

Simple fix is to apply PEQ below the room transition frequency (aka Schroeder frequency).

What's the easiest/cheapest way for a someone to apply PEQ in a domestic situation ?

 

[Putter]

I would argue that (in the absence of actually giving proof) that the 12db/octave drop-off of a sealed (speaker) vs. the 24db drop-off for ported provides a more accurate representation of the instrument's response especially when room gain is taken into account.

 

[voodooless]

What's the easiest/cheapest way for a someone to apply PEQ in a domestic situation ?

EQ Software for Windows, Linux, macOS, iOS/iPadOS and Android.

Any suggestions are welcome. Post suggestions here. I will gather the details and add them. Thanks. :D This will be organized as results come in. @sweetchaos made a guide for PEQ filter data input and operation. For crossover software go here. Windows: AutoEQ four easy steps to make your...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Mackie]

It would seem that for a simple setup without any EQ processing, sealed designs have some advantages in varied domestic situations.

 

[dasdoing]

Group delay is a function of frequency response in a minimum phase system. If you were to EQ them the same, the group delays would be the same as well.

I am sorry to respond with wiki, but I am no expert myself:

In order to achieve their bass output, ported loudspeaker enclosures stagger two resonances: one from the driver and the boxed air, and another from the boxed air and the port. At the vent tuning frequency, the output from the port is the primary source of sound output, as the displacement of the woofer is at a minimum. This comprises a more complex, higher-order system than an equivalent closed-box loudspeaker enclosure. The interaction between the two resonances results in a system that possesses less damping and increased time delay (increased group delay). Due to the latter, a flat steady-state bass response does not occur at the same time as the rest of the sonic output at higher frequencies in the operating region. Instead, it starts later (lags) and the lag increases, accumulating over time as a longish resonant "tail" arriving behind the main "body" of the acoustic signal.

Bass reflex - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But I do look at excess group delay all the time and the port delay is always there.
It always manifests itself as a resonance

 

[Mackie]

Does anyone know who makes a good sealed standmount nowadays ?

 

[Mackie]

EQ Software for Windows, Linux, macOS, iOS/iPadOS and Android.

Any suggestions are welcome. Post suggestions here. I will gather the details and add them. Thanks. :D This will be organized as results come in. @sweetchaos made a guide for PEQ filter data input and operation. For crossover software go here. Windows: AutoEQ four easy steps to make your...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thanks. There's quite a lot there to dig into there.

 

[voodooless]

I am sorry to respond with wiki, but I am no expert myself:

Bass reflex - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The article is not really wrong, it just doesn’t tell the whole story. Group delay is in fact as I said, directly related to frequency response (and phase):

Group delay explanation and measurement (in audio)

Group delay is often confused with phase delay, and for good reasons. Here is a clear group delay explanation, and measurement using ARTA.

audiojudgement.com

Group delay is the negative of the derivative of the phase curve with respect to radian frequency

I’ll post some examples later of reflex and closed systems eq’er to roughly the same response. You’ll see that the group delay will be equal as well.

 

[DVDdoug]

You can make a good woofer/subwoofer either way. It's easier to make a "bad" ported design.

If you want "realistic" bass you'll want a large woofer/subwoofer, similar in size to your bass speaker. (There's a lot more to speaker design than size and bigger isn't always better but you won't get bass you can feel in your body from a 5-inch woofer.)

It's dangerous to generalize but ported speakers tend to roll-off more steeply below the -3dB point. But ported speakers can usually be tuned for a lower -3dB point (assuming the same driver) and can usually get more sound output and you can "push" the -3dB point even lower if you allow a small bump above the -3dB point. It also depends on the driver.

I built a pair of subwoofers and I chose a ported design. (I used WinISD to predict and optimize performance before building them, and I decided on a ported design.)

I don't know about bass guitar speakers, but regular guitar speakers/cabinets/amplifiers are not supposed to be "high fidelity". They are supposed to add tone and character, becoming "part of the instrument". And as you may know, the lowest note on a standard bass guitar is around 40Hz so most bass guitar speakers are probably tuned slightly higher than that . (Another generalization is that if you tune a speaker higher you can more efficiency... It will go louder with the same power.) So that's a different goal from a hi-fi speaker that's supposed to accurately reproduce the sound.

 

[Frgirard]

An observation from a bass player.

I've noticed that I seem to prefer the bass response on sealed speakers over ported ones.
Bass guitar notes appear tighter , have more texture, definition and notes just appear to be more even sounding through the range of a bass guitar.
With ported designs I always seem to hear some bass notes louder or weaker.

Are ported designs generally less accurate in bass response or have I just not listened to the right speakers?

for people : yes.
for people : no.
i have a sealed 8" k+h o300. for me it's no but it's for me.

for me, judge bass reproduction in a room with the ears is an heresy. the measures and only the measures tells the true.

 

[Mackie]

for people : yes.
for people : no.
i have a sealed 8" k+h o300. for me it's no but it's for me.

for me, judge bass reproduction in a room with the ears is an heresy. the measures and only the measures tells the true.

Thanks, I hear ya but I only have my ears in a room to judge.

 

[sonci99]

Does anyone know who makes a good sealed standmount nowadays ?

Proac Tablette 10.

 

[Frgirard]

Thanks, I hear ya but I only have my ears in a room to judge.

i'm like you but the room drives the bass response.
I'm not a bass player. I probably don't have the same attentions as you. but I have never read a convincing argument con or against.

 

[levimax]

If you have the room and budget and aesthetic approval sealed speakers are much easier to design and will more reliably integrate with more rooms as well as with sealed subs. A well designed ported speaker (which is not easy or common) can be smaller for the same performance but can have a higher chance of being problematic in an actual room. The gradual roll off of sealed speakers vs ported speakers can be preferred in some cases depending again on the room as well as the music. While I just generalized, like most things audio generalizations are not very useful and what is important is the implementation of a particular technology rather than the technology it's self.

 

[Frgirard]

If you have the room and budget and aesthetic approval sealed speakers are much easier to design and will more reliably integrate with more rooms as well as with sealed subs. A well designed ported speaker (which is not easy or common) can be smaller for the same performance but can have a higher chance of being problematic in an actual room. The gradual roll off of sealed speakers vs ported speakers can be preferred in some cases depending again on the room as well as the music. While I just generalized, like most things audio generalizations are not very useful and what is important is the implementation of a particular technology rather than the technology it's self.

the better integration with a sealed speaker is a non sens.

i have sealed and ported speakers.
the Modal support, the modes, the standing waves and the sbir are the same.