Sealed speakers VS ported

[Mackie]

Some Fascinating posts above,

Not everyone (myself included) uses EQ or knows how to measure a room with REW and implement.
My wife likes a simple plug and play solution. I'm very picky about bass quality and I like good quality sound overall.
If I just plonk a speaker down in my small living room , will a sealed or ported design suit me better. I've got a grand to spend on speakers.

 

[gene_stl]

Bass players also use both though mostly ported. They are concerned about potential loudness.

 

[Mackie]

I have two bass cabinets. One 2x10 and a larger 4x10. The larger cab has a port in the back which I always keep plugged. The smaller cab has a port in the front of the cab which sounds good as is.

 

[dfuller]

what speakers type are used by the double bass or the guitare bass players?

I've seen vented and sealed boxes, sometimes they have compression driver HF drivers with a very rudimentary crossover.

 

[Mart68]

Some Fascinating posts above,

Not everyone (myself included) uses EQ or knows how to measure a room with REW and implement.
My wife likes a simple plug and play solution. I'm very picky about bass quality and I like good quality sound overall.
If I just plonk a speaker down in my small living room , will a sealed or ported design suit me better. I've got a grand to spend on speakers.

The long answer is that many factors will influence the quality of the bass. A ported speaker is not inherently incapable of giving tight even bass with all the texture present. Bear in mind that lots of speakers, even expensive ones, are rubbish.

The short answer is in a small room and for a simple approach you would be better off going for a speaker that is not ported.

 

[fineMen]

... will a sealed or ported design suit me better. I've got a grand to spend on speakers.

The question is ill posed. Quality in bass is first frequency response, how even it is and how deep it goes. Both in-room! Second is how much the bass reproduction would take away from a clean reproduction of the mids in terms of intermodulation distortion (incl. Doppler) and dispersion of midrange into the room.

The technical problem asks for many compromises. But anyway, to not being able to basically measure the frequency response represents the biggest obstacle. If You could, then a simple equalizer or repositioning of speakers and preferred listening chair would possibly do wonders. No expense can compensate for lacking knowledge of what actually is the case.

What all clearly forget is that recordings get filtered. Such filters bend the phase, and hence the group delay considerably in the very same way as the layout of the cabinet does (bass alignment <=> filter theory). The room with its many (hopefully!) reflections would contribute its own +/-10dB with corresponding phase shifts.

I wonder why this topic comes up every other day, and is discussed with speculations and what some remember to have read once elsewhere.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Thanks, I hear ya but I only have my ears in a room to judge.

A big ported high quality sub will pressurize most small and medium size rooms. This gives you some serious whack and thump. If your not feeling it in your chest or your bones you need more subwoofer (for movies and explosions). For just pure music, either ported or sealed is fine as you are not asking the sub to really play all that low for 99% of music. I'm not counting bass tracks and such which will push any sub to the limits. So, it depends on your use case. I have found out that most people who are buying a sub for home theater will complain after buying a sealed sub that they need a bigger sub. Usually thought they just needed a ported sub. So, to make it easy for recommendations, ported for home theater and sealed or ported for music. I know many will not agree with me but my years of experience have allowed me to cut to the chase and make easy recommendations. For anything special, YMMV.

 

[Frgirard]

The question is ill posed. Quality in bass is first frequency response, how even it is and how deep it goes. Both in-room! Second is how much the bass reproduction would take away from a clean reproduction of the mids in terms of intermodulation distortion (incl. Doppler) and dispersion of midrange into the room.

The technical problem asks for many compromises. But anyway, to not being able to basically measure the frequency response represents the biggest obstacle. If You could, then a simple equalizer or repositioning of speakers and preferred listening chair would possibly do wonders. No expense can compensate for lacking knowledge of what actually is the case.

What all clearly forget is that recordings get filtered. Such filters bend the phase, and hence the group delay considerably in the very same way as the layout of the cabinet does (bass alignment <=> filter theory). The room with its many (hopefully!) reflections would contribute its own +/-10dB with corresponding phase shifts.

I wonder why this topic comes up every other day, and is discussed with speculations and what some remember to have read once elsewhere.

quality in bass is first the decay not the frequency response.


your last paragraph is disturbing

 

[posvibes]

Purely subjective, but the speakers I miss the most and regret giving away because of the amount of space they took up was a pair or Sansui AS-100's from late sixties early seventies. They were a series made to compete with the likes of AR and had the same kind of look. Two way. 10' woofer, 2" tweeter in a sealed (infinite baffle) enclosure. Crossover was a single resistor with L-pads for room correction. Nicest bass I ever heard.

 

[Mackie]

Would stuffing a port make a speaker the same as a sealed design ? Or do ported designs have a specially specc'ed driver ?

I'm guessing that cabinet size is calculated from if its ported or sealed.

 

[fineMen]

Would stuffing a port make a speaker the same as a sealed design ? Or do ported designs have a specially specc'ed driver ?

The only realistic advice so far was to familiarize with objective measurements or--if You are willing to do it the hard way, many trials of equalizing with just Your ears as a measurement device. You will most probably prefer a technically good bass: flat and even with some depth.

Mackie, a ported design follows quite different rules than a sealed one. A ported device with the same internal volume would only need half the excursion, or half the cone area. How many 'watts' a specific output needs depends on the enclosed air volume alone (nearly), while a ported design is about 6dB more effective.

With ported another parameter comes into play. The tuning frequency limits the usable bandwith quite sharply. Only little below the tuning the ported box would undergo a mechanical short circuit. effect Imagine an electrical short at a power mains socket, and You get the picture. The cone would exhibit hefty movement without radiating sound. This modulates the mids dramatically; the speaker is useless.

Problems with the latter quickly arise, if a too small box was tuned too high as to extend kind of a "linear" response, the infamous -3dB point, to a too low frequency. E/g:
- box tuned to 55Hz in order to say f-3 is at 50Hz.
- The same driver in the same volume might otherwise be tuned to 40Hz, being relatively safe with the short circuit, but then f-3 would be at say 65Hz.

This more or less sensible decision, too often opting for the ugly side, might contribute the most to the--in the enthusiast camp, bad reputation of ported designs. Conversely, in a small room the f-3 at 65Hz could be just right to avoid booming (from the room!). Such a design would as a well designed ported one benefit further in efficiency and reduced cone movement, hence a lot clearer mids.

So far and final from my side without any hearsay The topic is in waves "decaying" already ...

 

[Vacceo]

Does anyone know who makes a good sealed standmount nowadays ?

Perlisten or Sigberg are good candidates.

 

[Mackie]

Thanks for writing that, I'll have to read it a few times.

What would I look for in measurements if I want "technically good bass: flat and even with some depth" ?

Take for instance the measurements of the Kef LS50 meta here.

KEF LS50 Meta Review (Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF LS50 Meta bookshelf coaxial speaker. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me and costs US $1,500 for a pair. The LS50 Meta comes in different colors and I must say, it looks stunning in white: You could sell it as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Am i right in thinking the port and cabinet seem to make a lot of low sound in the second graph ?

 

[levimax]

What would I look for in measurements if I want "technically good bass: flat and even with some depth" ?

Take for instance the measurements of the Kef LS50 meta here.

KEF LS50 Meta Review (Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF LS50 Meta bookshelf coaxial speaker. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me and costs US $1,500 for a pair. The LS50 Meta comes in different colors and I must say, it looks stunning in white: You could sell it as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Am i right in thinking the port and cabinet seem to make a lot of low sound in the second graph ?

Those Kef speakers are small and don't really have much of any bass. They are down 3 dB at 70 Hz.... in order to integrate them with a sub you would have to cross higher than is ideal. The second graph shows the response of each individual driver and looks OK ... what people look for in this graph are "peaks" outside the drivers range which can create audible peaks in the FR. If you search there is a tutorial on how to read and interpret the tests.

Take a look at this review which has bass flat to 30 Hz. They would sound great on their own and if you wanted to add a couple subs it would be relatively easy as you can cross them low enough. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...neumann-kh-310a-review-powered-monitor.17723/

 

[fineMen]

Take for instance the measurements of the Kef LS50 meta here.

KEF LS50 Meta Review (Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF LS50 Meta bookshelf coaxial speaker. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me and costs US $1,500 for a pair. The LS50 Meta comes in different colors and I must say, it looks stunning in white: You could sell it as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Alas, I only had the LS50 w/o meta at hand. I didn't care about it, because the sound got nervous and harsh at even moderate levels with conventional recordings. Clear overload. The harmonig distortion sky-rockets below 200Hz, and it is a coax design with insofar quite vulnerable mids/treble. I'm used to use high q/ 12" basses, though.

These are available in Europe for about 1k: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/wharfedale_linton_85/

 

[dualazmak]

Even though my info here would not be directly/exactly responding to OP's inquiries, on my project thread I recently rather intensively measured transient characteristics of my woofer (WO) in sealed cabinet and my sub-woofer (SW) in ported design. I also evaluated/measured the crossover responses from SW to WO, and discussed about the feasibility of my selection of cross over frequency (50 Hz) in terms of transient characteristics of SW and WO around the XO Fq.
- Measurement of transient characteristics of Yamaha 30 cm woofer JA-3058 in sealed cabinet and Yamaha active sub-woofer YST-SW1000: #495, #497, #503, #507

 

[Newman]

It would seem that for a simple setup without any EQ processing, sealed designs have some advantages in varied domestic situations.

I know what you are saying, but by that same logic, a sealed sub without deep strong bass has the advantage over a much bigger, more expensive sealed sub with deep strong bass.

 

[dualazmak]

Just for OP's reference, as I assume OP uses not only woofer(s) but also other midrange and high-range SP drivers....

The precision time alignment between all the SP drivers is one of the critical factors for excellent transient characteristics of the whole sound; this is also true for "bass string instruments" since "bass string" sound always has rich multiple harmonics components in higher Fq zones. I recently established precision (in 0.1 msec level) time alignment between all the SP drivers, sub-woofers, woofers, midrange squawkers, tweeters and super-tweeters as summarized in my post here.

 

[Newman]

If I just plonk a speaker down in my small living room, will a sealed or ported design suit me better. I've got a grand to spend on speakers.

Let me put it this way: just ‘plonking’ a subwoofer down in a room with no EQ or other care (ie ‘plonk’), is a recipe for the worst possible low bass, with the most audible flaws. There is every chance you would like the result less than not having a sub at all, and just running a pair of speakers that run out of steam at about 50 Hz.

In fact, what you are wishing to do is exactly how and why subwoofers were disliked for decades by audiophiles: in the days of no EQ and limited measurement capability (or interest), you would hear much discussion of difficulties of ‘integration’.

Not everyone (myself included) uses EQ or knows how to measure a room with REW and implement.
My wife likes a simple plug and play solution. I'm very picky about bass quality and I like good quality sound overall.

If you are unwilling to accept the terrible results that your preferred approach will deliver, there is a ‘middle ground approach’. Buy a subwoofer with built in EQ such as SVS or Elac (they use a smartphone app to control the EQ), and use a spectrum analyser app on your phone eg Spectrum or Sonic Tools, to see the frequency response when holding your phone where your head goes. Play a pink noise signal through your hifi, look at the spectrum on your phone, and play with EQ on the sub app until you knock down the worst peaks or lumps (ignore the dips) on the spectrum. It’s a bit rough and ready, but far better than nothing.

Which type of sub? TBH you have shown so much bias that I think a sealed sub is better for you, especially since you have shown little interest in the key things a good sub delivers: more SPL at deeper frequencies. If you are interested in those things, then ported will be noticably better at your price point.

cheers

 

[posvibes]

@Newman what is the role of volume control of a subwoofer, never having used one, if listening at moderate levels to bookshelf speakers I have read elsewhere you should hardly be able to tell if the sub is on? Is that correct?