Schitt Sol Turntable

[Twitch54]

At high prices.

bought a car lately ?

 

[Soniclife]

The missing piece is a moderate priced TT with either no arm or an easily replaceable arm. Almost everything I've seen where I can drop in the arm of my choice is stunningly expensive.

All the Rega decks have easily removable arms, though the arm may be the best bit.

 

[SIY]

All the Rega decks have easily removable arms, though the arm may be the best bit.

I have a couple of great tonearms, so my interest is something with a basic drive system and a good suspension, where the engineering went to that, not to an arm I don’t need. And at moderate pricing, no voodoo.

I’m apparently too narrow of a niche.

 

[Grattle]

Isn't that the problem?

Amir has pointed out that some Schiit products don't perform well.
He has identified serious safety issues in some products on account of ineffective casework earthing.
Members have identified issues with this turntable at the same time as others have said they like it.
Some Schiit products have been measured by Amir and commended as good products by Amir.
Topping products have often displayed exemplary measured performance at low prices.

All of that is objective and pretty much evidence based but is presented by some as an anti-Schiit crusade.

Certainly if I compare Amir's pretty balanced and objective approach to testing with the "shoot the messenger" approach of Schiit when certain issues are highlighted it would not be Amir who I'd criticise.

I’m not criticizing Amir, it’s all of the sheeple.

 

[mannye]

Hi guys! First post.

I get it about the round cross-section of the belt, and whatever else that might mean, but IMO that's all moot if the thing sounds good.

And so far, I don't know that anyone has heard it.

 

[BDWoody]

It's only moot if design and engineering quality are irrelevant...

 

[SIY]

"Good" is an extremely loose (and nearly meaningless) term. Especially given the number of people who love a good story more than they can hear defects like rumble, wow, flutter, and the like.

A turntable's job is simple- rotate the record at a constant speed while not adding noise. If it does that and it doesn't sound "good," the problem is elsewhere.

 

[Thomas savage]

The missing piece is a moderate priced TT with either no arm or an easily replaceable arm. Almost everything I've seen where I can drop in the arm of my choice is stunningly expensive.

So you want a TT that costs a arm but not a leg?

 

[SIY]

So you want a TT that costs a arm but not a leg?

Three or four legs.

 

[sergeauckland]

"Good" is an extremely loose (and nearly meaningless) term. Especially given the number of people who love a good story more than they can hear defects like rumble, wow, flutter, and the like.

A turntable's job is simple- rotate the record at a constant speed while not adding noise. If it does that and it doesn't sound "good," the problem is elsewhere.

That's always been my position. Turntables should all sound the same when playing a record, they just have to go round at the right speed with minimal rumble. I accept that most turntables are used in the same room as the audio is playing, so are subject to feedback, so differences in turntable sound may be due solely to the way in which feedback is more or less isolated from the sound field the turntable sits in.

Arms are all different, but I've not seen any evidence (as opposed to anecdote) that an arm's resonant behaviour actually translates to audible differences in terms of frequency response. Cartridges yes, they're transducers, and as such differ considerably in terms of frequency response and distortion. Match the arm to the cartridge in compliance, and the combination will be limited by the cartridge. Attach the arm to a turntable and play on headphones or with the turntable in another room, and the only difference will come from the cartridge's characteristics.

S.

 

[anmpr1]

Every time I read the bullshit bias against Schiit here, it strikes me as group-think.

Whenever folks agree, that does not necessarily mean it's some sort of coercive psychological phenomenon. Don't over think this as some manifestation of Gustave Le Bon's insights into social psychology. It might simply be that folks honestly agree about something. In this case, the turntable, it just doesn't look like good value, compared to other products available at the price point. That is a value judgement, not 'groupthink'.

But here's the thing. If, say, Benchmark came out with a turntable, most here would tend to give them the benefit of the doubt, based on their previous efforts in the digital and analog amplifier market. The problem with Schiitt is that their previous efforts in the digital and analog market have been middling to poor. So that explains some of the heat they get, here. Actions always speak louder...

Disclaimer: I own two Schiitt products: a DAC that's in my closet somewhere. I don't use it since I don't need it, but could and would, if I did. And a headphone amplifier that I sometimes use. That said, if I was in the market for a record player, I'd be looking elsewhere than this piece of Schiitt. (Sorry, I couldn't help that, but they brought it on themselves with their name!)

 

[solderdude]

Something one may want to read before buying the SOL at this moment.

One can say a lot of things about Marv but he does know something about vinyl.

 

[Hugo9000]

Why do you have to hunt around in the FAQ to discover that it isn't sold with any cartridge at all? All the photos show a Grado cartridge. Won't most casual or new LP fans expect to get a complete kit?

Even much more expensive turntables that I see in browsing the 'net seem to come with a cartridge, often with a choice of a couple options. Even units where most buyers might be immediately upgrading to a significantly more expensive one.

If Schiit had a long history of selling turntables/kits that never included cartridges, it would be different, although even then someone new to the brand would probably expect to see a Grado in the package based on the photos on the order page. Who hides something like that on a FAQ page? And they don't sell cartridges separately to go with it, nor do they list specific ones that are compatible. And it took them years to come out with this? Plenty of time to at least get the product page right. I don't imagine that the long-time turntable tweaking public will really jump on the Schiit bandwagon, and the "hipster" vinyl buyers who might like the Rube Goldberg looks probably still expect to get a product that lets them play their records without having to hunt somewhere else for a necessary part. They helpfully let you choose if you need their phono preamp when you order, so why not a dropdown with some cartridge options (one option could be "no cartridge, I'll supply my own" to make it abundantly clear not to expect one in the box).

It's not a product for me, with my tiny collection of LP sets displayed as religious totems (Leontyne Price opera boxed sets, and a Mariah Carey numbered 20th anniversary Butterfly picture LP haha). If I ever buy another turntable, I will probably get something inexpensive and simple/relatively sturdy like a Fluance RT83 and not worry about what I might be missing. I have my approx. 3000 CDs and SACDs for my serious music listening.

 

[JJB70]

The thing with Benchmark is that they have a consistent record of excellent engineering and a solid representation for first class quality and customer service. I don't think any consumer needs the sort of measured performance of Benchmark products but I get the desirability of their products and I have been tempted to buy a Benchmark set up myself, not for sound quality but for the satisfaction of owning such well engineered equipment and the comfort that comes from buying gear from a company that stands behind their products.
If I compare Schiit, I am pretty confident that the audible performance of their DACs and amplifiers is fine and any difference in audible sound between them and Benchmark marginal. However I also see no evidence of a commitment to high quality or excellent engineering. Some of the measurements are mediocre and with entirely avoidable faults such as ineffective earthing. And their stuff isn't that cheap. It is much cheaper than Benchmark for sure and I do credit them for avoiding the price excesses of the audiophile bubble. But if you just want good audible performance without expecting too much depth of quality or engineering (and that is an entirely reasonable position) then you can get it for a lot less than Schiit.
If this makes me a Schiit hater then fair enough.

 

[anmpr1]

Arms are all different, but I've not seen any evidence (as opposed to anecdote) that an arm's resonant behaviour actually translates to audible differences in terms of frequency response. Cartridges yes, they're transducers, and as such differ considerably in terms of frequency response and distortion.

From my investigations, arm/cartridge resonance (which is probably not what you are talking about--i.e., overall FR variations, if I understand what you mean) manifests in an inability to properly track the groove, especially with record warps, at low frequencies, between 5 and 10 Hz. You can observe arm cartridge oscillation with test records. Sometimes it is audible, sometimes not.

FR can be a major determinant in identifying a cartridges 'sound', if the response variation is large enough. As an example, see David Rich's measurements of the 'hot' AT 440ML. On the other hand, FR cannot be the sufficient determinant of phono cartridge goodness. There are other variables.

The July 1969 issue of Stereo Review measured a half dozen cartridges. The three best (subjectively) really didn't measure that different from the rest, with the possible exception of stereo separation. It is an old article, but interesting nevertheless. Some findings, using the SME 3012 tonearm:

One of the top 3 subjective best cartridges, the ADC-25 ($100.00) which came with 3 different styli, sounded the same regardless of the type of styli that was used (.03 x .09, 0.3 x 0.7, 0.6 conical).

The ELAC STS 444-12 ($60.00) was one of the top 3, in spite of FR which was similar to the other cartridges.

The el cheapo Grado FTR ($9.95) had a rising (10dB) response at 15KHz, but sounded as good as the expensive cartridges.

In casual listening, it was difficult to tell among the group (which also included Stanton, Pickering, Shure, Empire).

 

[watchnerd]

I’m not criticizing Amir, it’s all of the sheeple.

What are the specific critiques of the Sol that are sheeple-like?

 

[watchnerd]

Hi guys! First post.

I get it about the round cross-section of the belt, and whatever else that might mean, but IMO that's all moot if the thing sounds good.

And so far, I don't know that anyone has heard it.

If you read back in the thread, there is a review from someone who owns both the Sol and the VPI. So he/she has heard it.

 

[watchnerd]

Something one may want to read before buying the SOL at this moment.

One can say a lot of things about Marv but he does know something about vinyl.

There are some major misses in this design based on those comments:

"A better quality belt that does not wobble up and down on the platter."

"Adjustable feet option. Can't level the table."

"Anti-skate doesn't work -- just falls off the anti-skate arm continuously like described by Marv. Belt travels from mid-point of platter to about 1mm from top edge. "


These are all failures of the most basic tasks expected of a turntable.

 

[sergeauckland]

From my investigations, arm/cartridge resonance (which is probably not what you are talking about--i.e., overall FR variations, if I understand what you mean) manifests in an inability to properly track the groove, especially with record warps, at low frequencies, between 5 and 10 Hz. You can observe arm cartridge oscillation with test records. Sometimes it is audible, sometimes not.

FR can be a major determinant in identifying a cartridges 'sound', if the response variation is large enough. As an example, see David Rich's measurements of the 'hot' AT 440ML. On the other hand, FR cannot be the sufficient determinant of phono cartridge goodness. There are other variables.

The July 1969 issue of Stereo Review measured a half dozen cartridges. The three best (subjectively) really didn't measure that different from the rest, with the possible exception of stereo separation. It is an old article, but interesting nevertheless. Some findings, using the SME 3012 tonearm:

One of the top 3 subjective best cartridges, the ADC-25 ($100.00) which came with 3 different styli, sounded the same regardless of the type of styli that was used (.03 x .09, 0.3 x 0.7, 0.6 conical).

The ELAC STS 444-12 ($60.00) was one of the top 3, in spite of FR which was similar to the other cartridges.

The el cheapo Grado FTR ($9.95) had a rising (10dB) response at 15KHz, but sounded as good as the expensive cartridges.

In casual listening, it was difficult to tell among the group (which also included Stanton, Pickering, Shure, Empire).

Tracking ability is a function of recorded amplitude which in turn is a function of frequency distribution and velocity, due to the RIAA characteristic. At LF it will be made worse if the arm/cartridge resonance is wrong, i.e between 9-15Hz, ideally 10-11Hz, and/or badly damped. A 'wrong' resonance but well damped is better than the 'right' resonance undamped. That's why I rate highly the Shure V15-V method of a damper on the cartridge which keeps the arm/record height pretty constant compared with arm damping which mostly doesn't work, whether at the cartridge end, as Townsend does, or at the pivot end, as SME do.

The main issue with arm damping is that the inevitable warps or swings, which need only to be very small amount, will push the cartridge cantilever outside the linear region of the magnetic circuit on warps/swings thus increasing distortion, often quite radically. An undamped arm will follow the warps/swings better than a damped arm, but then the cartridge's own resonance will be greater. Ideally therefore, the arm/cartridge resonant frequency needs to be around 11Hz, below modulation frequency (20Hz) and above warp frequencies, 1-5Hz.

S

 

[watchnerd]

Apparently there are some issues with this new turntable and Schitt are offering to refund customers or offer the fix + $300. Anyone know anything about this?

I don't know about the $300, but Jason seems to acknowledge there are QC issues with the platter and/or bearing here, with a note that shipments are on hold for QC reasons:

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...iit-sol-turntable-review-episodic.8291/page-3

He also says later in the same thread:

"Okay, so here's the deal: we dun phucked up. We should have done a beta.

Soooooo...let's do a beta."

...then goes on to describe the letter / refund he has in mind for the purchasers who are now beta testers.