Schitt Sol Turntable

[anmpr1]

Ideally therefore, the arm/cartridge resonant frequency needs to be around 11Hz, below modulation frequency (20Hz) and above warp frequencies, 1-5Hz.

Using Shure TTR-117 I never observed a cartridge with a resonant frequency above 10Hz. That said, the damped brush on both the V-15xMR and M97xE makes the test moot, since even in very 'difficult' arms (such as the Garrard Z-100 pantograph) everything is well behaved. I am not happy that Shure is out of the cartridge business, but that's how it is. According to Dr. Rich, the patent on the dynamic stabilizer brush is up, so other manufacturers could use it. I think that if they don't it is out of envy, and not wanting to recognize something that could actually benefit their users. Some claim the brush caused audible problems, but a) I never experienced that, and b) you can always hinge it up, out of the way, if it is a problem for you.

 

[Hugo9000]

Here is a post from Jason Stoddard (I think that's him) updating the situation, with the contents of the email sent out to buyers:

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...table-review-episodic.8291/page-3#post-271996


My summary: So the early buyers can choose to keep the Sol for now and become "beta" testers. They will receive a $300 refund, and will receive any replacement parts they need, etc. If, at the end of the beta period, they are still unhappy, they can send the Sol back and get the rest of their money refunded. Or, they can just return it now for a full refund including shipping.

He also mentions that they will add a standard cartridge option, so that addresses the point I made a little earlier lol.

Probably the smartest way they could deal with this, and good that they didn't dawdle in coming to this decision on how to go forward. From my reading various forums, I'd venture to say that most of the early adopters are already well-acquainted with the brand and like it. Probably a fair percentage will be pleased at having a role in helping Schiit improve the product and deal with the launch 'disaster.' So probably a win/win for most, as long as they can iron out all the issues in a reasonable amount of time. I can't imagine anyone who doesn't like the brand would have taken a risk on a new product from them like a turntable kit.

 

[anmpr1]

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...table-review-episodic.8291/page-3#post-271996

So the early buyers can choose to keep the Sol for now and become "beta" testers. They will receive a $300 refund...,

As a Windows user, I wish Microsoft would have been as generous, back in the day.

 

[Frank Dernie]

the damped brush on both the V-15xMR and M97xE makes the test moot,

From a basic seismic transducer pov this is the correct place to employ damping. Between cantilever and body is wrong but the compromise chosen to get the system to sort-of work. It works much better than it should, or, maybe, pretty high levels of distortion still gives convincing sound.
I don't know if the damped brush could transfer audible levels of vibration from the groove to the cartridge body but I doubt it. This was the best cartridge engineering ever IMHO.

 

[Soniclife]

Are there any third party brushes that attach to the headshell or similar?

 

[garbulky]

Here is a post from Jason Stoddard (I think that's him) updating the situation, with the contents of the email sent out to buyers:

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...table-review-episodic.8291/page-3#post-271996


My summary: So the early buyers can choose to keep the Sol for now and become "beta" testers. They will receive a $300 refund, and will receive any replacement parts they need, etc. If, at the end of the beta period, they are still unhappy, they can send the Sol back and get the rest of their money refunded. Or, they can just return it now for a full refund including shipping.

He also mentions that they will add a standard cartridge option, so that addresses the point I made a little earlier lol.

Probably the smartest way they could deal with this, and good that they didn't dawdle in coming to this decision on how to go forward. From my reading various forums, I'd venture to say that most of the early adopters are already well-acquainted with the brand and like it. Probably a fair percentage will be pleased at having a role in helping Schiit improve the product and deal with the launch 'disaster.' So probably a win/win for most, as long as they can iron out all the issues in a reasonable amount of time. I can't imagine anyone who doesn't like the brand would have taken a risk on a new product from them like a turntable kit.

Wow! Talk about quality issues! A pity because all reports on sound say it's good. But golly they didn't seem to have caught some really obvious stuff like belt issues, platter wobble - in fact if you look at the Schiit setup video I noticed the record was wobbling though I don't know what caused it. That purrin guy also talked about bending the cartridge wires and the cartridge being not aligned correctly and even using lego feet because he couldn't figure out platter height. And this guy appears to know his TT's!

Hopefully SChiit will go back to the design board with a whole lot more feedback and try to improve this. As I pointed out the setup appears to be a major PITA and even experienced TT guys agree with me. Good on Schiit to get ahead of the situation and shut it down - though it's still on them for a crap product.

 

[JJB70]

Here is a post from Jason Stoddard (I think that's him) updating the situation, with the contents of the email sent out to buyers:

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...table-review-episodic.8291/page-3#post-271996


My summary: So the early buyers can choose to keep the Sol for now and become "beta" testers. They will receive a $300 refund, and will receive any replacement parts they need, etc. If, at the end of the beta period, they are still unhappy, they can send the Sol back and get the rest of their money refunded. Or, they can just return it now for a full refund including shipping.

He also mentions that they will add a standard cartridge option, so that addresses the point I made a little earlier lol.

Probably the smartest way they could deal with this, and good that they didn't dawdle in coming to this decision on how to go forward. From my reading various forums, I'd venture to say that most of the early adopters are already well-acquainted with the brand and like it. Probably a fair percentage will be pleased at having a role in helping Schiit improve the product and deal with the launch 'disaster.' So probably a win/win for most, as long as they can iron out all the issues in a reasonable amount of time. I can't imagine anyone who doesn't like the brand would have taken a risk on a new product from them like a turntable kit.

Indeed, it is a good response to things and I think as good a job as they can do in terms of damage limitation.

On the other hand, they claim to have spent years developing this yet dumped a half baked unfinished product onto the market, that really doesn't speak of a company with an interest in good engineering and product development.

 

[BDWoody]

Indeed, it is a good response to things and I think as good a job as they can do in terms of damage limitation.

On the other hand, they claim to have spent years developing this yet dumped a half baked unfinished product onto the market, that really doesn't speak of a company with an interest in good engineering and product development.

I'm shocked... shocked I tell you...

 

[Frank Dernie]

Are there any third party brushes that attach to the headshell or similar?

Not that I have seen. The devices on those Shure cartridges had damped pivots such that damping was applied between the record surface and the transducer stator (the correct place for it).
Stanton had a brush but it was just to dust the record iirc.

 

[Soniclife]

Not that I have seen. The devices on those Shure cartridges had damped pivots such that damping was applied between the record surface and the transducer stator (the correct place for it).
Stanton had a brush but it was just to dust the record iirc.

Way more complicated than I understood, so it would require some arcane setup to get right, and most people would set it wrong. So just like the rest of vinyl.

 

[anmpr1]

Not that I have seen. The devices on those Shure cartridges had damped pivots such that damping was applied between the record surface and the transducer stator (the correct place for it). Stanton had a brush but it was just to dust the record iirc.

Discwasher company marketed a device called the Disctracker that applied damping (I think pneumatic) to the headshell, riding just in front of the stylus assembly. An outrigger device attached to the headshell screws. It 'rode' the LP providing damping. They advertised it using the Denon DL-103D, as an example of a cartridge that might benefit from its action.

Shure cartridges were viscous damped. Unfortunately, after time in service the damping material (not sure what was used) could dry out, making it useless for the intended purpose. I have a V15xMR with this problem. I know JICO offers replacement styli for the V15, with a brush, but I do not know whether the brush they use is actually damped, or just hinged. My guess is the latter.

The information about Stanton (Pickering) is, unfortunately, the case. The brush rode on a hinge, offset by a 1 gram tracking force increase. It might have provided minimal damping, but that was not its main function. I have one, NOS, and will do a resonance test some time in order to find out if the hinged brush does anything about that.

 

[watchnerd]

Discwasher company marketed a device called the Disctracker that applied damping (I think pneumatic) to the headshell, riding just in front of the stylus assembly. An outrigger device attached to the headshell screws. It 'rode' the LP providing damping. They advertised it using the Denon DL-103D, as an example of a cartridge that might benefit from its action.

Shure cartridges were viscous damped. Unfortunately, after time in service the damping material (not sure what was used) could dry out, making it useless for the intended purpose. I have a V15xMR with this problem. I know JICO offers replacement styli for the V15, with a brush, but I do not know whether the brush they use is actually damped, or just hinged. My guess is the latter.

The information about Stanton (Pickering) is, unfortunately, the case. The brush rode on a hinge, offset by a 1 gram tracking force increase. It might have provided minimal damping, but that was not its main function. I have one, NOS, and will do a resonance test some time in order to find out if the hinged brush does anything about that.

View attachment 33257

If it actually worked as advertised, I'm curious why this evolutionary branch of the cartridge tree died off?

 

[anmpr1]

Wow! Talk about quality issues!

The only scenario I can possibly imagine is that the lab prototype Schiitt signed off on was satisfactory, and designed to spec, but once it went to manufacture whoever was making the parts did a sloppy job in the tolerance department, and Schiitt didn't check what they were sent. I don't know how else to explain this sort of thing. I mean, how can they advise using a DL 103 with the table, and then in the field customers find out that the Denon doesn't fit in the headshell? Can anyone explain that?

 

[watchnerd]

I'm shocked... shocked I tell you...

 

[anmpr1]

If it actually worked as advertised, I'm curious why this evolutionary branch of the cartridge tree died off?

If you mean the Disctracker, it could be a lot of things. Expense, the addition of fluid damping in high end arms, the hassle of installation. Who knows? I never heard one, but remember seeing it advertised. Like the Schiitt turntable, it might not have worked as promised. That would be my first guess.

If you mean the Shure damped brush, that was most certainly because it was proprietary. But now that the patent has expired, there is no reason another company could not work something out using the principle. There is no reason that an outfit such as Ortofon or AT could not do it. But you kind of know they won't. Too bad, really.

 

[watchnerd]

I mean, how can they advise using a DL 103 with the table, and then in the field customers find out that the Denon doesn't fit in the headshell? Can anyone explain that?

I don't think it's all quality control

The lack of leveling feet isn't a QC issue. That's a critical missing feature.

The lack of public data on things like tonearm effective mass, which any serious TT person would want to know in order to match arm to cart, is another miss.

It makes me think those involved in the design, from the get go, didn't seem to really understand what a 'power user' "hobbyist" wants / needs in a turntable as a minimum viable product (MVP).

 

[watchnerd]

If you mean the Disctracker, it could be a lot of things. Expense, the addition of fluid damping in high end arms, the hassle of installation. Who knows? I never heard one, but remember seeing it advertised. Like the Schiitt turntable, it might not have worked as promised. That would be my first guess.

If you mean the Shure damped brush, that was most certainly because it was proprietary. But now that the patent has expired, there is no reason another company could not work something out using the principle. There is no reason that an outfit such as Ortofon or AT could not do it. But you kind of know they won't. Too bad, really.

Well, both, actually, in the broad genus of 'outboard doohickeys that damp a cartridge'.

 

[LuckyLuke575]

The whole thing looks very Rube Goldberg for $799.

I don't get it, personally.

For $500, you can get a plug n play TT that has electronic speed regulation, amongst other features.

For $1500-$2000, you can get a proper 'power user' table with replaceable tonearm.

It seems like for $799, you're getting something that is neither fish nor fowl. It's not as easy to use as a $500 TT, nor as upgradeable as a $1500+ TT.

Seems more like a toy, or as they say, a 'hobbyist' turntable.

This is an expensive toy, plain and simple. I also get nervous when I see anything with a Schitt logo and RCA outs.

 

[mannye]

It's only moot if design and engineering quality are irrelevant...

Well, to be fair, if the turntable sounds good (I'm not one for superlatives.. good... in the sense that we are talking about expensive, supposedly high quality stuff) then IMO, yes, the quality of the engineering and design are moot. Assume a non-engineer just got lucky.. it's still "terrible engineering" but it doesn't matter because it works.

THAT SAID... this thing apparently does sound good, but only after someone (Marv... I read the thread) spends what seems like a frustrating few hours getting the thing set up and it seems to need mods. If they spent 6 years designing this thing...how are basics like adjustable feet!!!! missing? Did anyone at the factory try to mount a bunch of carts on the headshell before releasing it to the public?

Seems the design and engineering took a lot less than 6 years and they just maybe talked about it for 6 years, then slapped it together in a few months.

However, it does look like with a few tweaks, this turntable might be a good value. It reminds me a little of the first Music Hall MMF-5 that was $499 back in 1999 and came with a split plinth, Goldring GX1012 cart (now almost that price alone) and a heavy glass platter with a powerful 115v motor. Mine still amazes me almost 20 years later.

But it already had a really good cart, a flat belt and didn't take long to set up. And interesting to calculate that $500 in 1999 is valued about about $770 today. So... yeah.

 

[garbulky]

On head-fi Jason said

when we relaunch, we'll make sure every turntable is pre-set-up for a "typical" cartridge, and there will be a standard cartridge option.

This is good news. I am hoping that "pre-setup" and standard cartridge option means that the table is going to be ready made with no real ikea style assembly required. If so, that's a smart move on their part.