Schiit Modi 3+ Review (Stereo DAC)

[xarkkon]

schitt sending samples to asr.... what is the world coming to?!

(i kid... good going schitt!)

 

[Veri]

schitt sending samples to asr.... what is the world coming to?!

Happened pretty much every new release since Freya S. Nothing new

 

[threni]

I'll happily hear your subjective thingies. I'm sure others here too but perhaps you need to include the disclaimer "my personal subjective opinion..." or something like that. For example... "Between AKM and ESS DAC, to my personal subjective opinion I can hear that ESS is a bit harsher but clearer and AKM has that smooth and musical sound...even though they are different, I like both DACs"

We don't really need disclaimers on this site; we know subjective opinions are just that. When someone says a DAC is lifeless rather than measuring it and saying "bass response isn't flat" or describe precisely what the poetic word "lifeless" could possibly mean you know it wasn't worth mentioning.

 

[raif71]

We don't really need disclaimers on this site; we know subjective opinions are just that. When someone says a DAC is lifeless rather than measuring it and saying "bass response isn't flat" or describe precisely what the poetic word "lifeless" could possibly mean you know it wasn't worth mentioning.

I agree with you on this but I could have sworn somebody in here said have to include such disclaimers. If it was up to me, I'd just mention my opinions without such disclaimers and expect people to understand like you said.

 

[BDWoody]

But sometimes there are some subjective thingies that are worth mentioning.

But if it's related to sound quality, unless you've made your comparisons using level and sight controls at a minimum, you aren't giving useful information.

That people hear differences isn't new. If anyone can identify these differences under controlled conditions, they (you?) would be the first.

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

I agree with you on this but I could have sworn somebody in here said have to include such disclaimers. If it was up to me, I'd just mention my opinions without such disclaimers and expect people to understand like you said.

The issue isnt disclaimers , its obviously a personal, subjective opinion and thats fine. The question is , what is the value of such a statement , especially on a site like this? You said you are interested? Why? Surely the only people to whom a subjective comparison of 2 DACs is of interest to are others that have those same 2 DACS?

If you are were considering buying a new DAC and those 2 were under consideration, why is the opinion of a random guy on the internet (or anyone for that matter) of use? Especially when I bet you could find contrary opinions somewhere

 

[BDWoody]

I agree with you on this but I could have sworn somebody in here said have to include such disclaimers. If it was up to me, I'd just mention my opinions without such disclaimers and expect people to understand like you said.

Why not actually do it with controls...? You've been here long enough. Do you truly believe you could hear it (whatever the claim is) with controls? Why not pony up, instead of telling every new poster with a story of removed veils or muddy bass that they shouldn't listen to the naysayers, when it's a site filled with naysayers.

This is a science site...after all.

 

[raif71]

I'd just might try when I have a proper switch

 

[threni]

I agree with you on this but I could have sworn somebody in here said have to include such disclaimers. If it was up to me, I'd just mention my opinions without such disclaimers and expect people to understand like you said.

Maybe you're right and disclaimers (and pointing out when they are missing) are useful, so newcomers get up to speed a little more quickly.

 

[Wombat]

@VintageFlanker

I know all about it after being for decades on forums. Ofcourse I first want my gear to be well built and good measuring, that’s why I like this site so much. But sometimes there are some subjective thingies that are worth mentioning.

If the performance is so different one or both products is possibly not HiFi.

OR, personal factors prevail.

How do we work that out if you don't provide confirming and repeatable data. At this point it is a 'sample-of-one' preference opinion.

 

[Matias]

This DAC does everything quite well and the price is great. The only problem is that Topping D10s exists: for the same price it has the same inputs and outputs, plus a nice display and performs still better. Specially on the multitone test.

Modi 3+

Topping D10s

 

[MadMan]

If the performance is so different one or both products is possibly not HiFi.

OR, personal factors prevail.

How do we work that out if you don't provide confirming and repeatable data. At this point it is a 'sample-of-one' preference opinion.

Much of audiophoolery is based upon not preferring hi-fidelity. It's especially perplexing to me with regards to sources and other amplification electronics which have the sole purpose of reproducing the input signal, but it's not going to change.

 

[threni]

This DAC does everything quite well and the price is great. The only problem is that Topping D10s exists: for the same price it has the same inputs and outputs, plus a nice display and performs still better. Specially on the multitone test.

Modi 3+

Topping D10s

I think a kettle is a good analogy for some of this stuff. Some kettles suck; they don't work, or switch off at 98 degrees C, or take ages to reach 100 degrees C. Some clown is going to pay £200 for a kettle because it's the colour as their sports car, or what have you. Amongst the ones which reach 100 degrees C some get there 5 seconds faster. The best 10 reach 100 degrees within .6 of a second. From the outside, if you ask a normal person, they'll treat them all (other than the broken ones) as identical. But we're not normal, and (typically) want the one which gets to 100 degrees C the fastest. I think there's an argument for having the SINAD ranking and other charts show the point where there is no audible difference, so you're purely picking for reason of style (I like silver), or racism (can't be buying Chinese) etc. I have the Topping E30 and the Schiit Asgard 3 with the AK4490 DAC; one DAC measures a lot better than the other but (worthless subjective opinion alert!!!) there's no obvious audible difference to me, nor would I imagine would a test reveal one either. A lot of people are going to prefer the look of the modi 3 over the Topping alternative. But at this point, that's pretty much the extent of the difference. Or features - the E30 has a remote which my Asgard 3 doesn't.

 

[milosz]

Has anyone done any proper double-blind studies to see if anyone can really hear the difference between a middle-of-the-tested-range DAC and a top-of-the-range DAC? Seems that, since these are devices for listening to music, it would be important to know if these differences in measurement equate to differences that are actually audible. Of course if a middling DAC is $99 and a $130 DAC measures considerably better, it's almost a moot point if anyone could hear the difference between them or not- fust spend the extra $31 and be done with it. But if there were a substantial cost difference, than it would not only be interesting to know if anyone can hear these differences, it would be useful/money saving/valuable to know that answer.

 

[raif71]

I think a kettle is a good analogy for some of this stuff. Some kettles suck; they don't work, or switch off at 98 degrees C. A lot of people don't like. Some clown is going to pay £200 for a kettle because it's the colour as their sports car, or what have you. Amongst the ones which reach 100 degrees C some get there 5 seconds faster. The best 10 reach 100 degrees within .6 of a second. From the outside, if you ask a normal person, they'll treat them all (other than the broken ones) as identical. But we're not normal, and (typically) want the one which gets to 100 degrees C the fastest. I think there's an argument for having the SINAD ranking and other charts show the point where there is no audible difference, so you're purely picking for reason of style (I like silver), or racism (can't be buying Chinese) etc. I have the Topping E30 and the Schiit Asgard 3 with the AK4490 DAC; one DAC measures a lot better than the other but (worthless subjective opinion alert!!!) there's no obvious audible difference to me, nor would I imagine would a test reveal one either. A lot of people are going to prefer the look of the modi 3 over the Topping alternative. But at this point, that's pretty much the extent of the difference. Or features - the E30 has a remote which my Asgard 3 doesn't.

Does the Asgard 3 support native dsd?

 

[threni]

Does the Asgard 3 support native dsd?

The optional AK4490 DAC module in the Asgard 3? Sorry but I have no idea. I'm a simple man; 44.1kHz CD -> flac -> usb -> DAC. Never used DSD or anything like that.

 

[anmpr1]

Anything in the blue section is good. Anything in the blue section for ninety nine dollars is really good. This is an inconspicuous black box. Plug it in and forget it. When I see what's available at the price point, I'm pretty happy, as a consumer.

 

[Newman]

Ofcourse I first want my gear to be well built and good measuring, that’s why I like this site so much. But sometimes there are some subjective thingies that are worth mentioning.

Well, ‘worth mentioning’ depends on whether the “thingies” are subjective ‘on the outside’ i.e. in the sound waves, or subjective ‘on the inside’ i.e. an internally generated illusion born of one listener’s cognitive biases and quite independent of the sound waves.

If it’s the latter, then mentioning it does little more than mislead the reader.

And we all know there is only one way to tell which it is.

Cheers

 

[Veri]

I wonder what the rising low frequency distortion is all about...

SMSL M300 MKII and M200 have it. Schiit Modius and this Modi 3 have it. What could be the cause, anyone knows?
JDS labs Atom DAC has no rising low freq, but rising high freq. distortion. Puzzling stuff!

 

[SmackDaddies]

The "defects" are not audible in virtually all of the equipment tested (DACs), regardless of where they fit on the bar chart. At this point, it is pretty much by based on features, not audible differences.