Schiit Modi 3+ Review (Stereo DAC)

[Matias]

The "defects" are not audible in virtually all of the equipment tested (DACs), regardless of where they fit on the bar chart. At this point, it is pretty much by based on features, not audible differences.

There are several distortion elements above the -110 dB line on the multitone test, so it is not so transparent.

 

[Veri]

Low-frequency distortion is what we are most tolerant of. It's probably not an issue. If you want no bottlenecks however it's something to keep in mind, though...

 

[3rdShift]

I think a kettle is a good analogy for some of this stuff. Some kettles suck; they don't work, or switch off at 98 degrees C. A lot of people don't like. Some clown is going to pay £200 for a kettle because it's the colour as their sports car, or what have you. Amongst the ones which reach 100 degrees C some get there 5 seconds faster. The best 10 reach 100 degrees within .6 of a second. From the outside, if you ask a normal person, they'll treat them all (other than the broken ones) as identical. But we're not normal, and (typically) want the one which gets to 100 degrees C the fastest. I think there's an argument for having the SINAD ranking and other charts show the point where there is no audible difference, so you're purely picking for reason of style (I like silver), or racism (can't be buying Chinese) etc. I have the Topping E30 and the Schiit Asgard 3 with the AK4490 DAC; one DAC measures a lot better than the other but (worthless subjective opinion alert!!!) there's no obvious audible difference to me, nor would I imagine would a test reveal one either. A lot of people are going to prefer the look of the modi 3 over the Topping alternative. But at this point, that's pretty much the extent of the difference. Or features - the E30 has a remote which my Asgard 3 doesn't.

I registered just to respond to this.
Very well said; I still have my two original modi 3s and they've been rock solid reliable and sound great. I've seen little reason to "upgrade" to a same-tier dac.

However, I did want to address the bolded. Wanting to support one's home country, or not wanting to support another is absolutely not necessarily racism. It's actually pretty irritating that is the assumption. Personally I don't care where a product comes from, but the company that manufacturers that product needs to have a presence in my country. Otherwise if something goes wrong, you have to ship it off to the product's home country, which isn't always inexpensive or fast.

Case in point for me, topping. They make some great products (though first batch QC is a big gamble with them), but I can't bring myself to spend money on something topping makes because of the reason I mentioned above. If I buy an D10S, and something goes wrong, it's a minimum of $37 to ship it off to china (from the US), and it could be well over a month before I get it back. Whereas, if one of my modi 3s gives up the ghost, $9 to cali and I'll have it back in a week or two.

So again, well-said, but please don't assume racism because someone chooses to support their own country, or not support another.

 

[ElNino]

Does the Asgard 3 support native dsd?

No Schiit products support native DSD (apart from a short-lived DSD converter they made briefly years ago). This is a position Mike Moffatt is pretty firm on, and IMHO it’s fine.

 

[Shazb0t]

I'd just might try when I have a proper switch

Pretty please?

 

[raif71]

Pretty please?

Since you asked nicely...this is what I've been mulling over....

In this setup hiby r5 will feed signal to d10s via usb which will then output digital via coax and optical to e30 and d50s... then all will go to the rca switch to l30 then to the hd600. Right now I don't have the rca switch.
My question is will I get proper sync from all the dacs going to the switch especially from the d10s coz it's the 1st dac in the chain?

 

[PeteL]

If anyone can identify these differences under controlled conditions, they (you?) would be the first.

It's a rather broad statement. It's been reported that some people can hear quite small differences under controlled conditions. "subjective" don't necessarily mean unmeasurable, it may be that the word used to express these differences are not rigourous. or yes it might be inexistent and strictly bias. It may also sometimes be that for a specific listening set of conditions, one unit operate more linearly, optimally, than the other. Why are we measuring stuff here. I know that Amir has set some absolute tresholds of audibility for each separate parameters, but a product is a sum of all theses, and not everything is measured. Where exactly stop proven transparency? Everything Blue in the chart? Everything Blue and green in the chart? Or is it possible than this assesment may be a bit more complex than just SINAD?
I'm not coming here saying that I am a subjectivist and that measurments don't mean much, and I am doubtful when someone describe the sound of a product with subjective term. But doubtful don't mean dismissive of any objective differences, for a specific environment. As an experiment, I know, for a fact, by significant numbers, that some people can hear a much much lower noise floor than me, for example. Yes, it's just an example, but once that is proven, I also start to be at least listen when someone claim audible diffences between products. The fact that he don't have a valid blind test to prove the claims, don't mean that he wouldn't if he had the occasion, and don't mean they are inexistant. We have to be objective in both side of the argument.

 

[SmackDaddies]

There are several distortion elements above the -110 dB line on the multitone test, so it is not so transparent.

Is it audible?

 

[anmpr1]

When discussing gear, Peter Aczel used to quote the old Voltaire sourced quip: the best is the enemy of the good. I think that in analog oriented 1977, and through the early to mid days of digital that was the case. But now things have converged to the point that the best and the 'merely good' can coexist peacefully.

 

[threni]

When discussing gear, Peter Aczel used to quote the old Voltaire sourced quip: the best is the enemy of the good. I think that in analog oriented 1977, and through the early to mid days of digital that was the case. But now things have converged to the point that the best and the 'merely good' can coexist peacefully.

I think the concept of best/perfect is what motivates engineers to make the merely good better.

 

[BDWoody]

It's a rather broad statement.

It was, and without all of the required qualifying statements could be misconstrued, and I don't have a fundamental disagreement. It's back to the 'all DAC's sound the same' thing, which isn't what I believe, even though that's what that unqualified statement might imply.

But doubtful don't mean dismissive of any objective differences, for a specific environment.

Not being dismissive that a difference as described could exist. Just saying that without controls, we'll never know.

When any description of a normal component (well measuring, non-boutique) starts with any difference being obvious, it's obvious to me something is broken or wrong somewhere.

 

[Azathoth]

Micro USB though, oh well.

 

[restorer-john]

with any difference being obvious, it's obvious to me something is broken or wrong somewhere

Not necessarily. A difference only means just that. One, or other, or both, may be broken. It is a mistake to assume one is right and the other, not.

 

[Veri]

Case in point for me, topping. They make some great products (though first batch QC is a big gamble with them), but I can't bring myself to spend money on something topping makes because of the reason I mentioned above. If I buy an D10S, and something goes wrong, it's a minimum of $37 to ship it off to china (from the US), and it could be well over a month before I get it back. Whereas, if one of my modi 3s gives up the ghost, $9 to cali and I'll have it back in a week or two.

So again, well-said, but please don't assume racism because someone chooses to support their own country, or not support another.

In EU there's plenty of resellers like audiophonics and hifistudio79 with 2-year easy replacement and full warranty. In the US you have apos, parts-express : https://www.parts-express.com/brand/topping/470 (rather small catalog for now, but as you can see, US resellers exist )

 

[anmpr1]

I think the concept of best/perfect is what motivates engineers to make the merely good better.

I'm all for that. Keep pushing the limits. Why not? However, speaking as a consumer, the technically 'perfect' is not too important to me other than from an academic or theoretical standpoint. Especially in the context of a stand alone, insert it and forget it, black box DAC at this price point.

For amps and preamp-DAC combos it's different. Then, from my personal consumer standpoint, it comes down to available power for the dollar, multiplicity of features, build quality, cosmetics, warranty, dealer and/or manufacturer support and reputation along with other intangibles.

 

[bennetng]

This DAC does everything quite well and the price is great. The only problem is that Topping D10s exists: for the same price it has the same inputs and outputs, plus a nice display and performs still better. Specially on the multitone test.

I am pretty sure everyone can hear the difference when using SPDIF because the ones on Topping D10s are SPDIF output, and the ones on the Modi3+ are input. There will be no sound on the D10s if you use it as an SPDIF DAC.

 

[threni]

I registered just to respond to this.
Very well said; I still have my two original modi 3s and they've been rock solid reliable and sound great. I've seen little reason to "upgrade" to a same-tier dac.

However, I did want to address the bolded. Wanting to support one's home country, or not wanting to support another is absolutely not necessarily racism. It's actually pretty irritating that is the assumption. Personally I don't care where a product comes from, but the company that manufacturers that product needs to have a presence in my country. Otherwise if something goes wrong, you have to ship it off to the product's home country, which isn't always inexpensive or fast.

Case in point for me, topping. They make some great products (though first batch QC is a big gamble with them), but I can't bring myself to spend money on something topping makes because of the reason I mentioned above. If I buy an D10S, and something goes wrong, it's a minimum of $37 to ship it off to china (from the US), and it could be well over a month before I get it back. Whereas, if one of my modi 3s gives up the ghost, $9 to cali and I'll have it back in a week or two.

So again, well-said, but please don't assume racism because someone chooses to support their own country, or not support another.

I agree entirely. I'm not assuming racism purely because someone said they don't want a Chinese DAC. I only got my E30 because I could get it fulfilled from Amazon UK; shipping (relatively) cheap boxes halfway around the world is time consuming and expensive (and Royal Mail here failed to deliver a parcel I sent to a relative there; it just vanished into thin air). But there are threads here where some people have made racist statements: the chinese are just copying the west; they'll never be as good as the west; american engineers are superior; they are greedy etc.

 

[BDWoody]

Not necessarily. A difference only means just that. One, or other, or both, may be broken. It is a mistake to assume one is right and the other, not.

If my post seemed to say otherwise, I certainly agree with you.

If you hear easily identifiable differences when you are comparing what you think are two competent components, do you not first think something is wrong somewhere?

I didn't mean to say that one then must be right and another wrong, but that if they have measurements that show comparable levels of technical performance, other than 'something being wrong somewhere,' I'm not sure what else it could be... Other than poor listening controls.

Did I miss your point?

 

[Matias]

I am pretty sure everyone can hear the difference when using SPDIF because the ones on Topping D10s are SPDIF output, and the ones on the Modi3+ are input. There will be no sound on the D10s if you use it as an SPDIF DAC.

You are right, I did not see the D10s is a coax output. So that the E30 is the competidor for Modi 3+ for +30 usd, só Modi 3+ has no direct competitor at 100 usd. Thanks!

 

[YSC]

Don’t just rely on measurements. I have 2 good measuring dacs: Topping D50s and Auralic Vega G2. I bought the Topping after reading the review on this site to save some money; the Topping should be comparable to the Auralic. But to my ears that is not the case. The Topping sounds very detailed but lifeless and the ‘expensive‘ Auralic Vega G2 outperforms the Topping completely on musicality (I know some people hate that word). This is a conclusion after weeks of trying and comparing. I really wanted the Topping to sound good.

Not trying to bash either side of the arguement, but I quickly checked the reviews here, it seems that the ESS hump was there with the D50 and not with the Vega G2, and that hump was around -30 to -50db range, which I suppose is more likely a use case for the dacs if one is using digital volume control? if so then maybe that IMD is the un-natural or not musical part you've heard?