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Schiit Midgard Balanced Headphone Amp Review

Rate this headphone amplifier:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 6 2.8%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 4 1.8%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 49 22.5%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 159 72.9%

  • Total voters
    218

Jimbob54

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But you know that the THX789 has higher power and much lower SOTA distortion due to its THX AAA circuitry, right? I fail to see the reason why you'd want to switch. The THX AAA circuitry is responsible for the lowest distortion in HP amps and power amplifiers today (Benchmark AHB2).
I know- but I do want to try this. Just interested.

Its a reasonable price and suspect I can offload it to a UK customer in short order if I'm not flawed by the Halo tech*

*Yes, they are massively playing the consumer, but hey its a decent amp.
 

Jimster480

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Nice to see that they are making something with decent performance. Not sure why you would buy this over ChiFi MFG's though at much lower price points... or even JDS Labs...
 

uwotm8

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There are many U.S. based companies
Which are not represented in EU but OK.
Legit and I know about them, but for now they only have one DAC+AMP solution - leading form factor these days, right? And only a few other devices.
Geshelli Labs
Never even heard of that, and there's, well, 2x less devices available. And those what they have, well, a personal no-go for me just by design (attached) but may work for someone. Looks like a niche brand overall. Geshelli can't be seriously compared to SMSL, Topping, Schiit or iFi, or even JDS. I might be wrong; nothing personal here. Just like it seems to me.
Geshelli-005.jpg
 

David_M

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I know- but I do want to try this. Just interested.

Its a reasonable price and suspect I can offload it to a UK customer in short order if I'm not flawed by the Halo tech*

*Yes, they are massively playing the consumer, but hey its a decent amp.
Curious to hear your thoughts after a thorough A/B listening test between the two dacs, especially at low volume levels where distortion rises for standard dacs but not the THX series amps..
 

solderdude

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There are no DACs in there.
The SE out is just like any other headphone out.
For some headphones the sound from XLR may be different somewhat.
Distortion drops in DACs and amps at lower output levels though.
This happens in THX series as well as with other amps.
 

Billy Budapest

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Never even heard of that, and there's, well, 2x less devices available. And those what they have, well, a personal no-go for me just by design (attached) but may work for someone. Looks like a niche brand overall. Geshelli can't be seriously compared to SMSL, Topping, Schiit or iFi, or even JDS. I might be wrong; nothing personal here. Just like it seems to me.

Geshelli products have been reviewed and evaluated at length on this forum. Their products at certain points in the recent past delivered performance at the top of the SOTA—above any offerings from SMSL, Topping, Schiit, iFi, and JDS.
 

Billy Budapest

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Which are not represented in EU but OK.
You had said that iFi and Schiit were the only “West-based” companies that offered budget-priced products that were competitive with Topping, SMSL, etc. I was just pointing out that your statement was incorrect, and there are many others. You didn’t mention anything about distribution in the EU. That’s something I know little about.
 
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dzerig

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It would be fantastic to measure the Sennhesier 6xx with and without the HALO (xlr with, 1/4" without) if Amir has XLR cables for the 6xx ... supposedly one person has said there is an audible difference.

I'm very curious not for headphones but for my speakers. In theory the effect is more audible with large woofers (the feedback changes the resonance of the transducer I think, thereby lowering distortion?).

I'm hoping for a speaker version of the tech, I have a pair of old Klipsch's with big ol' woofers that sound like just the ticket for Halo.
 

solderdude

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Svperstar

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But you know that the THX789 has higher power and much lower SOTA distortion due to its THX AAA circuitry, right? I fail to see the reason why you'd want to switch. The THX AAA circuitry is responsible for the lowest distortion in HP amps and power amplifiers today (Benchmark AHB2).

Really? I thought the power rating on the Midgard was slightly better then the THX 789 with the bonus that you can actually order one. Hasn't the 789 been off of drop for a while? I am out of the loop.
 

solderdude

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In 16ohm the 789 (balanced) is just 0.8dB louder than Midgard
In 32ohm the 789 (balanced) is just 1dB louder than Midgard
in 300ohm the 789 (balanced) is just 0.3dB louder than Midgard
In practice an inconsequential difference.

The 789 is about lowest distortion, the Midgard is about the Halo trickery (once established what it does as no one has actually measured what it does).
 
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Doodski

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IMO, I think you need to know more about solderdude. One of the most knowledeable people on the planet regarding headphones and headphone amplifiers.
Yes, he deserves respect.
 
OP
amirm

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I added an acoustic distortion measurement using Sennheiser HD-650 with 1/4 vs XLR HP out:

index.php


No difference. Variations that are there are just in testing. I can't think of a mechanism in a headphone amp that would counteract mechanical distortion in the headphone.
 

oleg87

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Can someone with better electrical engineering chops than I've apparently got explain to me the purported advantage of this mixed-mode feedback topology?

At least at the level of basic intuition, it seems like having the driver be in the feedback loop should hypothetically offer some sort of advantage (and some, more obvious to me, disadvantages). But I'm struggling to grasp what it would be.

As far as controlling errant driver motion and resulting distortion, having the driver being unconnected would seem to be equivalent to an amplifier fully preventing any "error" current from flowing in the circuit, but if you've ever shorted the leads of a speaker driver (or a small electrical motor) together, you obviously get more mechanical resistance to any force you apply to it. So what am I missing here?
 

solderdude

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@amirm Did the frequency response change in any way ?

Chances still are that low impedance headphones might change their behavior when the current/voltage drive ratio is different.

My suspicion is that the increased output resistance in the XLR out (2ohm) is a sensing resistor, so in series with the driver, and that voltage is used for feedback.
I may not have thought this through enough when a 300 ohm headphone is used that goes to say 600ohm at the resonance frequency the current will of course change at the resonance but across 2ohm a sensing voltage will barely be there.

As the trick here seems to be a mix of current + voltage feedback then it makes sense most of the feedback will come from voltage feedback and a very small amount by current feedback. So for high imp. headphones nothing substantial might actually change.

Since the level difference between 1/4 and XLR4 seems to be small (I expect it to be with just 2 ohm) the output voltage will be voltage determined.

That could be different for lower impedance headphones with a varying impedance (bass and/or treble). In that case the voltage drop across the 2 ohm (still assuming this is the trick) will be relatively higher and more influence could be there.
I don't know if this would be visible in distortion though as the corrections will be small and distortion is mostly SPL related but might be visible in FR (tone).

Is 'trickery' an objective term? The circuit sends feedback through the transducer. Trickery?

What feedback is 'sent through' the transducer and how is this achieved ? Do you know how this is done exactly ?

When you combine current sensing feedback with voltage feedback and no other amps (aside from the Bakoon) do this then I do not call that a trick as long as it is clear what exactly is done.
It may well be tricky to call this a trick but because what exactly is done is kept secret (as in not disclosed) and such is the same as the trick of a magician where he does not reveal what exactly is done. So to me it remains a 'trick' until it has become known what is done.

Amir just lifted a small tip of the entire curtain and when the frequency response did not change either.
Still an unknown but am sure the distortion measurements is sweeped so FR is also present and only needs to be plotted. The fact that Amir did not do this suggests nothing is visible there either.

At least now we know the Halo trick seems to de nothing spectacular for high impedance headphones.

I think for this trick to work for all impedances the device needs to sense the connected impedance and adjust the gain of the current sensing part (or sensing resistor value) accordingly.
But again... this is just how I think it is done. This is based on the very few components in the amp section.
 
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solderdude

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No, they were identical.

Makes sense given the distortion measurements.
Thanks for going through the trouble and seems to be what Schiit asked reviewers to do. (measure headphone output for both 'modes')

Can I ask you to repeat the test with this headphone (even though Schiit measurements would predict no audible difference) ?
index.php


The voltage/current ratio is vastly different and at 220Hz (or so) the current impedance almost doubled.

If something is done with current feedback it is more likely to generate enough voltage to do some forward 'correcting'.

For all we know the 'trick' does not do anything but change the way the brain perceives what is heard based on 'knowing' some new 'Schiit tech' is in there.:)
 
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solderdude

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Can someone with better electrical engineering chops than I've apparently got explain to me the purported advantage of this mixed-mode feedback topology?

At least at the level of basic intuition, it seems like having the driver be in the feedback loop should hypothetically offer some sort of advantage (and some, more obvious to me, disadvantages). But I'm struggling to grasp what it would be.

As far as controlling errant driver motion and resulting distortion, having the driver being unconnected would seem to be equivalent to an amplifier fully preventing any "error" current from flowing in the circuit, but if you've ever shorted the leads of a speaker driver (or a small electrical motor) together, you obviously get more mechanical resistance to any force you apply to it. So what am I missing here?

A clue could be in this plot

index.php

If we had the same plot but from SE output then we could see how different it responds from XLR (shown above)
When there is indeed some correction in current then we would see the lines around 5V being spaced apart a bit more.
Also, we would likely see (by lack of the 2ohm sensing resistor, if that is actually in there) all traces overlapping around 100mV and not just around 1V.

(Schiit measurement report suggests the differences would not appear to be different)

The odd one out seems to be the 50 ohm trace which one would expect to be between the 300 and 32 ohm trace.
 
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