Schiit Jotunheim 2 Review (DAC & Headphone Amp)

[Phoney]

Topping D90SE is SOTA for $900. Topping D30 Pro is excellent for $400. I would consider either of those. Both are a lot more expensive than Modius though. Not sure if you need it to be in the same price range.

As far as audible differences, it doesn't really matter which properly designed DAC you get; only bad designs have an audible sound signature. Anything from Topping, Loxjie, SMSL, Gustard, JSD labs, and some others will probably sound the same.

I can't hear a difference in my Modi 3, Modius, Hel, Echo Link, Focustite Scarlett 2i2, etc when level matched. It mostly boils down to build, features, and specs that don't add much objectively to sound but suggest engineering competence for me.

Thank you, that's what I was thinking. I literally ordered the Topping D30 Pro like 10 minutes ago as it seemed to be the a decent pricing considering it's performance and the XLR outputs. I really dont care about Bluetooth, mqa, eq and all that stuff so this one seemed nice and simple. I would prefer Modius simply due to price, but it's not a big difference (just +30% in my country). Topping D30 Pro is still a much cheaper option from the Gumby MB that I just sold, and if there even is an audible difference, it might even be better.

 

[Veri]

Topping D30 Pro is still a much cheaper option from the Gumby MB that I just sold, and if there even is an audible difference, it might even be better.

I'm sure you'll enjoy it

 

[Phoney]

I'm sure you'll enjoy it

Update: I made $760 dollars from the swap and the sound is pretty much the same! If anything, the D30 feels slightly cleaner even but maybe that's just me. I feel like theres little chance that the Gumby is audibly better, and I was able to spend the money from it on the Grado Hemp headphones. It's incredible how much more value you will get for the money when you finally find the right information. Too much snake oil and highly misleading reviews in this business, it's crazy. I'm still fairly new to this, and I can already say that I have never seen anything like it with anything else.. So much shady business. I'm glad I finally have enough information to work around the scams and faulty reviews.. I feel bad for anyone who comes into this hobby and ends up spending all their money on snake oil.. Do these companys actually pay or cooperate with some of these reviewers in the dark or something? Or is it just the placebo kicking in hard?

 

[Veri]

Update: I made $760 dollars from the swap and the sound is pretty much the same! If anything, the D30 feels slightly cleaner even but maybe that's just me. There's no way the Gumby is audibly better, and I was able to spend the money from it on the Grado Hemp headphones. It's incredible how much more value you will get for the money when you finally find the right information. Too much snake oil and highly misleading reviews in this business, it's crazy. I'm still fairly new to this, and I can already say that I have never seen anything like it with anything else.. So much shady business. I'm glad I finally have enough information to work around the scams and faulty reviews.. I feel bad for anyone who comes into this hobby and ends up spending all their money on snake oil.. Do these companys actually pay or cooperate with some of these reviewers in the dark or something? Or is it just the placebo kicking in hard?

I think a lot of it is community pandering, and definitely placebo and feeling content with new shiny purchases. Especially with DACs people are really happy to believe myths and stories!

 

[Phoney]

I think a lot of it is community pandering, and definitely placebo and feeling content with new shiny purchases. Especially with DACs people are really happy to believe myths and stories!

Yes for sure! I am aware of that, just wondering if any of these mainstream reviewers actually get paid or get any advantages for reviewing that way, because you will find a bunch of fantastic reviews on all the snake oil products.. And it makes me wonder if they actually believe these things themselves.

 

[Veri]

Yes for sure! I am aware of that, just wondering if any of these mainstream reviewers actually get paid or get any advantages for reviewing that way, because you will find a bunch of fantastic reviews on all the snake oil products.. And it makes me wonder if they actually believe these things themselves.

Like most things, it is likely a combination of both ..

 

[watchnerd]

Interesting. I still don't see the reason to spend double over the Asgard other then power. And if you need more then 5 watts, get the Magnius. Happy Asgard owner here

1. Need balanced
2. Want silver case

Magnius is black only

 

[watchnerd]

Schiit didn't design this for ASR or they would have sent one for testing before the launch like with Magnius and Modius. I really don't understand all the negativity. The headphone amp is transparent and beats almost everything out there on power with a nice layout and XLR connections.

I have to admit, this sort of negativity makes me eye roll.

The Heresy, Magnius and Modius show Schiit knows how to make objectively-oriented products, at reasonable prices, for those customers who value that the most.

They also make products that they admit don't measure as well, but have other attributes that appeal to different, less objectivist, market segments.

I don't get why people think it's bad for a company to make different products for different market segments.

As Stoddard said in an interview, "Porsche makes SUVs -- there are customers who want that."

Me personally?

I would consider purchasing a Jotunheim 2 over a Magnius for no other reason than I prefer an internal power supply and like it better in silver.

 

[watchnerd]

Because audiophoolery. Providing what some customers want (multi-bit magic and all that).

I'm not sure if preferring a certain color (e.g. silver) or liking internal power supplies better than wall-warts is just audio phoolery.

They're certainly *preferences*, but not particularly foolish ones.

 

[Zensō]

I'm not sure if preferring a certain color (e.g. silver) or liking internal power supplies better than wall-warts is just audio phoolery.

They're certainly *preferences*, but not particularly foolish ones.

Huh? I was referring to their overpriced, underperforming multi-bit DACs.

 

[watchnerd]

Huh? I was referring to their overpriced, underperforming multi-bit DACs.

Gotcha, thanks for clarifying.

 

[cinemakinoeye]

I think a lot of it is community pandering, and definitely placebo and feeling content with new shiny purchases. Especially with DACs people are really happy to believe myths and stories!

We humans love myths and stories. Jerome Bruner captured this nicely in his essay, "Two Modes of Thought" in his book, Actual Minds, Possible Worlds, in which he argues that humans have two modes of thinking, paradigmatic thinking (a.k.a. science) and narrative thinking, and these two modes are incommesurable, which is why so many debates can never get resolved, since the science camp insists on evidence and reproducability as their gold standard for evidence, and the narrative camp insists on using verisimilitide as their gold standard for evidence. Somewhere in the chasm between the objectivists (who believe in their methods) and the subjectivists (who believe in their stories) lies the elusive truth, which is like a musical fugue (borrowing the concept from Samuel Brainard's book, Reality's Fugue) that involves the warp and woof of many threads that come together to form a concept that no individual can fathom in every dimension, and in that delicious ambiguity, we select a piece of music, put on our headphones, tweak our gear, and we are transported into the most subjective of human states, the appreciation of artistic creation. And what does this have to a review of the Schiit Jotunheim 2? Any gear, in the end, is a means to an end, and that end has more to do than analysis, for we are far more than a transducer and an algorithm. While measurements can tell us a lot about the signal that activates our auditory system, it can tell us nothing about the experience within. I want to be clear that I'm not advocating a subjective approach to this and other gear reviews, nor am I advocating an objectives approach to this and other gear reviews, I'm simply (or not so simply) suggesting that there is something beyond measurement that lies in the chasm that is not a pool of snake oil.

 

[watchnerd]

And what does this have to a review of the Schiit Jotunheim 2?

yeah, I was wondering that

 

[cinemakinoeye]

I agree with Amir's review of the DAC section. I think Schiit should have kept the DAC out of this unit completely , it can create lots of confusion for an avg buyer when they search for reviews. After all said and done, imo this is still a better buy even with the DAC module over the $2500 SPL that was just reviewed and that says alot.

Amir's reviews influence my thinking and offer a refreshing alternative to highly-subjective reviews. Schiit offering the card option caused me a lot of confusion when deciding what to purchase. Reading through this and other threads on ASR offered insights. I found the all-in-one unit option appealing, but was not sure which to choose: the Multibit DAC or the ES9028 DAC, and the end I went with the Multibit on a whim, thinking, "if this offers a colored sound, great, I can always get myself a better-measuring outboard DAC in the future," am I crazy?

 

[Jimbob54]

Amir's reviews influence my thinking and offer a refreshing alternative to highly-subjective reviews. Schiit offering the card option caused me a lot of confusion when deciding what to purchase. Reading through this and other threads on ASR offered insights. I found the all-in-one unit option appealing, but was not sure which to choose: the Multibit DAC or the ES9028 DAC, and the end I went with the Multibit on a whim, thinking, "if this offers a colored sound, great, I can always get myself a better-measuring outboard DAC in the future," am I crazy?

Yes, I would say that isnt a decision many on here would support if asked. - The multibit option is both a terrible performer objectively and also very expensive. Whereas a very good external DAC objectively can be had for $100. So I would say you have been hit twice there.

You made the purchase in full knowledge of this , so be it. Personal preference and all that, but you did ask.

 

[cinemakinoeye]

Yes, I would say that isnt a decision many on here would support if asked. - The multibit option is both a terrible performer objectively and also very expensive. Whereas a very good external DAC objectively can be had for $100. So I would say you have been hit twice there.

You made the purchase in full knowledge of this , so be it. Personal preference and all that, but you did ask.

@Jimbob54 I appreciate your candor. I did make the purchase "in full knowledge" as you say, but not "full understanding." So for the next purchase, perhaps I should take a more "objective" path, as I still need an external DAC to support additional sources via S/PDIF (Airport Express) and Coax (CD transport), etc., so for that I hear from you I should seek a DAC with the best measurements to accompany my Jotunheim 2, at this moment I see the following options on the horizon in order to bring additional sources into the analog realm:

• a $99 DAC to be determined;
• Shiit Modi 3+ at $99 (seems to measure well as per the DAC comparison chart);
• Shiit Bifrost 2 (looks good stacked under the Jotunheim 2 but from a measurement perspective pales in comparison to the Modi 3+;
• A more expensive DAC to be determined in the event I want to continue on my crazy path.

Any suggestions?

 

[watchnerd]

@Jimbob54 I appreciate your candor. I did make the purchase "in full knowledge" as you say, but not "full understanding." So for the next purchase, perhaps I should take a more "objective" path, as I still need an external DAC to support additional sources via S/PDIF (Airport Express) and Coax (CD transport), etc., so for that I hear from you I should seek a DAC with the best measurements to accompany my Jotunheim 2, at this moment I see the following options on the horizon in order to bring additional sources into the analog realm:

• a $99 DAC to be determined;
• Shiit Modi 3+ at $99 (seems to measure well as per the DAC comparison chart);
• Shiit Bifrost 2 (looks good stacked under the Jotunheim 2 but from a measurement perspective pales in comparison to the Modi 3+;
• A more expensive DAC to be determined in the event I want to continue on my crazy path.

Any suggestions?

The Modius, for $199, also stacks under the Jot and measures better than the Bifrost

 

[Jimbob54]

@Jimbob54 I appreciate your candor. I did make the purchase "in full knowledge" as you say, but not "full understanding." So for the next purchase, perhaps I should take a more "objective" path, as I still need an external DAC to support additional sources via S/PDIF (Airport Express) and Coax (CD transport), etc., so for that I hear from you I should seek a DAC with the best measurements to accompany my Jotunheim 2, at this moment I see the following options on the horizon in order to bring additional sources into the analog realm:

• a $99 DAC to be determined;
• Shiit Modi 3+ at $99 (seems to measure well as per the DAC comparison chart);
• Shiit Bifrost 2 (looks good stacked under the Jotunheim 2 but from a measurement perspective pales in comparison to the Modi 3+;
• A more expensive DAC to be determined in the event I want to continue on my crazy path.

Any suggestions?

I didnt suggest getting a different DAC at all. But if you need inputs the Jot 2 doesnt have, then it depends if you want/ need balanced outputs from the new DAC to the Jot.

If you dont need balanced, the Modi 3+, JDS Atom +, Whichever Topping D10S or other DAC floats your boat in that price bracket. Depends on looks and availability/ region more than performance.

EDIT- per @watchnerd above, the Modius would sure look the best stacked on the Jot and is balanced.

 

[Phoney]

Is the Jot 2 the best measuring discrete amplifier that has been tested?

Could someone explain to me what a discrete amplifier means, and how it differs to an op amp? And does it have any pros or cons other than the differences that can be measured? Like build quality or durability etc.

 

[don'ttrustauthority]

Could someone explain to me what a discrete amplifier means, and how it differs to an op amp? And does it have any pros or cons other than the differences that can be measured? Like build quality or durability etc.

Op amps are made into chip sized devices sold as drop in devices. Discrete is made from parts. Discrete can therefore give the designer more choices in the design of the amplification section. More choices can mean better or worse sound.