RPi 4 or Allo USBridge signature for feeding Topping E30 ?

[kfivmes]

Hi all,

I'm planning on setting up a streaming device based on Topping E30 dac.
Is there any difference feeding it with regular RPi 4 usb or some clean usb outputs like Allo USBridge sig ?
I would be inclined to say no as the dac input already filters noise but I'd like confirmation from an expert.

Ty

 

[Spocko]

Hi all,

I'm planning on setting up a streaming device based on Topping E30 dac.
Is there any difference feeding it with regular RPi 4 usb or some clean usb outputs like Allo USBridge sig ?
I would be inclined to say no as the dac input already filters noise but I'd like confirmation from an expert.

Ty

I plan to feed it straight from my NUC.

 

[Daverz]

The RPi4 USB bus does not have the issues that the RPi3 did. I hope to have my E30 soon so I can do some practical testing. At 3 times the price of a basic RP4 kit, the USBridge Sig does not seem very cost effective.

 

[kfivmes]

Ok ty for answers.

Any other opinions ?

 

[somebodyelse]

As @Daverz already said, the Pi 4 doesn't have the problems of the earlier versions, although to be fair I've never had problems with the earlier versions running piCorePlayer anyway. On Volumio and Raspbian it only happened when I was running brutefir on the older Pis, whereas the Pi 4 can handle that without a problem.

More generally, if the DAC performance varies with different 'normal' USB ports driving it then the DAC designer hasn't done their job properly. Spend your money on a properly designed DAC, not a special port that hides the deficiencies of a poorly designed one. The same applies for SPDIF etc. The E30 appears to be generally well designed, so the USBridge probably won't alter performance.

 

[samsa]

As @Daverz already said, the Pi 4 doesn't have the problems of the earlier versions, although to be fair I've never had problems with the earlier versions running piCorePlayer anyway.

Even the RPi3 doesn't have the problems it notionally has ( because the ethernet interface hangs off of the USB bus).

I've streamed 32/768 PCM, via an RPi 3B+ to the E30, with no hiccups whatsoever.

USB 2.0 is 480 Mb/s. The ethernet on the RPi3 is 100 Base-T, which tops out at 100 Mb/s. So there's plenty of bandwidth to send every bit that comes in over the ethernet interface back out over USB.

Things would be different if you had a USB hard drive hooked up to the RPi, and you were simultaneously trying to read/write to the hard disk while using the ethernet interface. But just streaming to a USB DAC? That is no problem at all.

 

[Daverz]

Even the RPi3 doesn't have the problems it notionally has ( because the ethernet interface hangs off of the USB bus).

I've streamed 32/768 PCM, via an RPi 3B+ to the E30, with no hiccups whatsoever.

USB 2.0 is 480 Mb/s. The ethernet on the RPi3 is 100 Base-T, which tops out at 100 Mb/s. So there's plenty of bandwidth to send every bit that comes in over the ethernet interface back out over USB.

Things would be different if you had a USB hard drive hooked up to the RPi, and you were simultaneously trying to read/write to the hard disk while using the ethernet interface. But just streaming to a USB DAC? That is no problem at all.

I've only had issues with the RPi3 USB with the Topping D10 and DX3Pro (LDAC version).

 

[somebodyelse]

Even the RPi3 doesn't have the problems it notionally has ( because the ethernet interface hangs off of the USB bus).

I've streamed 32/768 PCM, via an RPi 3B+ to the E30, with no hiccups whatsoever.

USB 2.0 is 480 Mb/s. The ethernet on the RPi3 is 100 Base-T, which tops out at 100 Mb/s. So there's plenty of bandwidth to send every bit that comes in over the ethernet interface back out over USB.

Things would be different if you had a USB hard drive hooked up to the RPi, and you were simultaneously trying to read/write to the hard disk while using the ethernet interface. But just streaming to a USB DAC? That is no problem at all.

It's not a bandwidth problem, it's a latency problem returning the next data packet when requested for UAC2, and even then only under certain conditions. The exact underlying mechanism(s) are unknown, but certain workloads are known to make it likely to occur. One of these is brutefir, UNLESS you pin it to a single CPU core. I _think_ Volumio uses something else that makes problems more likely too. Details at the raspbian bug report #2215

 

[samsa]

It's not a bandwidth problem, it's a latency problem returning the next data packet when requested for UAC2, and even then only under certain conditions. The exact underlying mechanism(s) are unknown, but certain workloads are known to make it likely to occur. One of these is brutefir, UNLESS you pin it to a single CPU core. I _think_ Volumio uses something else that makes problems more likely too. Details at the raspbian bug report #2215

Fascinating. This sounds considerably more subtle than 'ethernet NIC on the USB bus = bad'.

FWIW, I've only tried streaming 32/768 via RoonBridge (running on top of Volumio). I've also not encountered any glitches with upmpdcli+MPD, but haven't tried any really high bitrates in that setup, nor used BruteFIR.

 

[mikeburns]

Even the RPi3 doesn't have the problems it notionally has ( because the ethernet interface hangs off of the USB bus).

I've streamed 32/768 PCM, via an RPi 3B+ to the E30, with no hiccups whatsoever.

USB 2.0 is 480 Mb/s. The ethernet on the RPi3 is 100 Base-T, which tops out at 100 Mb/s. So there's plenty of bandwidth to send every bit that comes in over the ethernet interface back out over USB.

Things would be different if you had a USB hard drive hooked up to the RPi, and you were simultaneously trying to read/write to the hard disk while using the ethernet interface. But just streaming to a USB DAC? That is no problem at all.

Would this mean a RPi4 as a streaming device to a dac that is working solely off a usb hard drive would be a bad idea? I am in the process of exploring this exact option but have not heard whether the pi playing flac off a usb hard drive is a workable and reliable approach? Thanks for any input.

 

[tw99]

Would this mean a RPi4 as a streaming device to a dac that is working solely off a usb hard drive would be a bad idea? I am in the process of exploring this exact option but have not heard whether the pi playing flac off a usb hard drive is a workable and reliable approach? Thanks for any input.

With an Rpi4 there is no issue. With earlier models there was a theoretical concern about ethernet traffic getting in the way of usb audio.

 

[Mortsnets]

I'm using Rpi4 usb out to a Khadas Tone Board dac and it sounds pretty good but with Schitt Modi MB much prefer using Allo Digione. So it may depend on the dac if you are happy with the Rpi4 usb or another streamer. I'm not familiar with the Topping E30, but getting the Rpi4 is a pretty inexpensive experiment.

 

[somebodyelse]

I'm using Rpi4 usb out to a Khadas Tone Board dac and it sounds pretty good but with Schitt Modi MB much prefer using Allo Digione. So it may depend on the dac if you are happy with the Rpi4 usb or another streamer. I'm not familiar with the Topping E30, but getting the Rpi4 is a pretty inexpensive experiment.

If you look at the Modi measurements here you'll see why - the spdif input measures significantly better than the usb input. That's a problem with the Modi in particular, not DACs in general, and the E30 doesn't have that problem.

 

[idiomatically]

I have RP4's all over our house and love them. I use them mainly with JDS Labs Eldac 2's but also have one going to a RME ADi2 DAC. Have used them with Toppings and SMSL dacs before as well and never had any issues. They are the perfect streamer. Use a decent quality class A usb cable and you are golden (not stupid expensive cables).

 

[GeorgeWalk]

I have RP4's all over our house and love them. I use them mainly with JDS Labs Eldac 2's but also have one going to a RME ADi2 DAC. Have used them with Toppings and SMSL dacs before as well and never had any issues. They are the perfect streamer. Use a decent quality class A usb cable and you are golden (not stupid expensive cables).

I also have a bunch of Pi3's and Pi4's doing all sorts of things. I am using Volumio on a Pi4 with the Topping D50s (via USB) and I have a PiZero using a Allo Digi board connected to my Parasound preamp (via optical). I have never had a problem with standard cables. I have a lot of other DAC and transports with the Pis and I have never had an issue.

 

[mikeburns]

I have now purchased a Pi4, controlled through wifi and use it with moode audio. It plays music (flac and mp3) from a 1TB ssd hard drive that is plugged into one of the pi usb ports and is great. Signal is clean through my SMSL SU-8 Dac, never get lag or latency issues and is on 24/7. This completely solved my music streaming problem and I now do not need to plug my laptop into my dac to play my lossless music collection. Moode can also play spotify but I have not set it up yet, as I already had spotify streaming through my chromecast audio which plugs in via optical to my DAC.

For some people the need to spend the extra on the allo usbridge might seem clear. I say try the rpi 4 on its own first and see how you go. It is really that good/competent and is much cheaper than the allo. You may find you don't bother getting the allo and in time if you do purchase the allo you then end up with a cool rpi that can act as a streamer or do some other cool function in your house.

 

[lucadoc]

Hi, did you use the usb output from de PI 4 to your dac? Moode plays music or it needs other softwares? Thanks you

 

[mikeburns]

Hi, did you use the usb output from de PI 4 to your dac? Moode plays music or it needs other softwares? Thanks you

If you were talking to me then yes. I use usb input on my dac (usb out from the rpi4). Moode does all the playing of the music, a little like vlc or any other music playing software. So my rpi takes music from my hard drive and moode plays it, sending the digital signal to my dac which turns it into an analog signal to be played by my preamp/amplifier and speakers. The rpi is a little computer. Pretty simple. Yet awesome! And cheap! Ticks all the boxes haha.

 

[lucadoc]

Thanks Mike! I'm wandering about a PI 4 to stream music and film and TV channels if I can replace my internet provider box (freebox TV)

 

[mikeburns]

Thanks Mike! I'm wandering about a PI 4 to stream music and film and TV channels if I can replace my internet provider box (freebox TV)

I am not sure how well they can work as a film/TV box... you would need to explore that option. I do hear people use them with up to 4k playback so should be sweet. You may need a second one to do the film streaming (although I think you can have separate operating systems/software on the one sd card, though I never explored this). Moode just plays audio files so will not do the film side of things.

I was really after a way to have a permanent fixed computer like device to play my locally stored music and went down the rabbit hole looking at hats and the usbridge as a way to improve the rpi4. At this point I am good with my rpi4 and for my needs it does everything well so I do not feel like I need the usbridge. It does everything everyone says it does and is stable! Best $150 (NZD) I have spent in this hobby (case, power supply, micro sd card and rpi4).