Review and Measurements of Totaldac d1-six DAC

[pkane]

Anyone out there to lend a 1rst generation digital device?
Like a Sony CDP-101 / PCM-F1, Denon DCD-1800, or Toshiba-XR-Z90, Toshiba XR-Z70, Philips CD-100?
If Amir had the time to measure one of them it would be fun to evaluate how good they hold up towards the TotalCrap.
Besides the Philips all of them are R2R NOS devices from the dawn of digital consumer audio.
To my memory only the Denon DCD-1800 has two DACs, the Burr-Brown PCM53.

Not the first generation, but I should have a PCM63-based DAC in storage (yes, R2R ladder). I’ll fire it up and see if it works. It was a very good DAC for its time, a bit more than 20 years ago.

 

[Hugo9000]

I had not the very first versions as they were expensive, but the 2nd version with the same 14 bit DACs. In the specs of the owner's manual they clearly stated 14 bit DAC chips with 4x oversampling using digital filtering. Then listed the various measured specs which the gear met. So I wouldn't call it dishonest as they hid it from no one. Heck Sony was running a single16 bit DAC at double speed and switching from right to left channels all the time. Sony had worse low level linearity issues than the 14 bit Philips.

Oh, I agree that they weren't dishonest, it's just a way that some who knock Philips and/or some early CD players in general characterize it. It usually seems to be LP-diehards in my own experience, so I guess it's a matter of finding anything they can think of to find fault with digital haha, like the stairstep thing etc., however false or misleading or just misunderstanding how the technology works.

 

[solderdude]

R2R in CD players works excellent. These usually are over-sampled (digital filtered) and have a proper analog filter removing the crap.
This was easy to make because there is only 1 fixed sample frequency.

R2R in DACs that can handle multiple formats can also work really well but one needs to oversample and post-filter at the oversample rate.
This will produce a well measuring and sounding R2R DAC that can compete with well constructed DS DACs.

In both cases (SD and R2R) it is all about the implementation, not the technology.

The linearity of the TotalCrap for instance is not total crap at all and quite impressive. But that is the only impressive thing about it (IMO).
Oh... and when it receives no signal it also has a impressively low noise number.
The filterless NOS for 44.1 and 48 is a bad idea, the way signals are handled is poorly constructed (see various tests done by Amir).
This definitely has not measured performance belonging to the price point it is in. Well, not at any price point actually.

Fortunately the ears and brains of those liking its sound are just crappy enough to not hear it or even like it.

 

[Herbert]

Not the first generation, but I should have a PCM63-based DAC in storage (yes, R2R ladder). I’ll fire it up and see if it works. It was a very good DAC for its time, a bit more than 20 years ago.

Cool! A Parasound probably?

 

[guenthi_r]

Cool! A Parasound probably?

I had an DAC 1100 HD, sadly i sold it many Years ago.....
Parasound DAC Info

 

[Veri]

I recently got a TDA1541A diy dac with authentic chip, pretty fun to diy around with. Sounds all right for an old 16-bit DAC. It's nonsense these sound more 'analogue' or vinyl-like, all I hear is higher noise floor; best case resolution cap at 96dB SINAD due to 16-bit.

At least these older Philips ladder/NOS chips function 'fine', don't cost $14k or boast other extraordinary properties, they just work. Would be cool if Amir ever gets shipped older tech just for fun I'm pretty sure it would crush stuff like this TotalDac and you'd be left with money to spare for a relaxing holiday...

 

[Frank Dernie]

I have a Sony DAS702-ES sitting here. It is Sony's first separate DAC and is huge and heavy, the box is full of electronics. I seem to remember it was 16-bit 2x oversampling. It was still working last time I tried it, which will have been in the last 1 or 2 years.
I keep meaning to do a level matched comparison to a more modern DAC but since my amplifier is now a Devialet I would have to change that as well and I haven't built up any enthusiasm to do it...

 

[zalive]

And let's agree what you think, and don't take this personally, doesn't mean anything.

We can agree on this only if we agree on that what you think as well doesn't mean anything. Do we agree, then?
And don't take it personal if what you think means nothing.
Like those guesses about what ESS did and what they didn't do with their listening session setups.

 

[Frank Dernie]

We can agree on this only if we agree on that what you think as well doesn't mean anything. Do we agree, then?

Jumping to Amir's defence here I would think not.
Amir has many years of working in the field, testing and listening.
You have opinions based on nothing solid as far as one can see and what seems to be an inability to understand things technical (most people have this problem IME)

 

[Thomas savage]

I have a Sony DAS702-ES sitting here. It is Sony's first separate DAC and is huge and heavy, the box is full of electronics. I seem to remember it was 16-bit 2x oversampling. It was still working last time I tried it, which will have been in the last 1 or 2 years.
I keep meaning to do a level matched comparison to a more modern DAC but since my amplifier is now a Devialet I would have to change that as well and I haven't built up any enthusiasm to do it...

That would make a interesting measurement exercise, see just what they had performance wise compared to what we have now.

 

[Frank Dernie]

That would make a interesting measurement exercise, see just what they had performance wise compared to what we have now.

It would but it would cost a fortune to send to Amir, I did consider it!

 

[zalive]

Jumping to Amir's defence here I would think not.
Amir has many years of working in the field, testing and listening.

Amir tested like 150, 200 DACs or devices here, and still doesn't know how to properly set up a bandwidth to do a proper frequency measurement.
That's amateur level mistake.
Defend him as much as you wish since this is cult-like atmosphere anyway.

 

[Thomas savage]

Some garlic croutons , crispy bacon and caesar dressing would make all this word salad more palatable.

 

[FrantzM]

Amir tested like 150, 200 DACs or devices here, and still doesn't know how to properly set up a bandwidth to do a proper frequency measurement.
That's amateur level mistake.
Defend him as much as you wish since this is cult-like atmosphere anyway.

Seems you , Sir, very well know how. In that case please show us the proofs. Your measurements protocols and your results.. (mod edit)

 

[solderdude]

Defend him as much as you wish since this is cult-like atmosphere anyway.

 

[sonci]

I recently got a TDA1541A diy dac with authentic chip, pretty fun to diy around with. Sounds all right for an old 16-bit DAC. It's nonsense these sound more 'analogue' or vinyl-like, all I hear is higher noise floor; best case resolution cap at 96dB SINAD due to 16-bit.

At least these older Philips ladder/NOS chips function 'fine', don't cost $14k or boast other extraordinary properties, they just work. Would be cool if Amir ever gets shipped older tech just for fun I'm pretty sure it would crush stuff like this TotalDac and you'd be left with money to spare for a relaxing holiday...

Tda 1541 diy dacs do not sound as good as cd players with the same dac.

 

[BDWoody]

Amir tested like 150, 200 DACs or devices here, and still doesn't know how to properly set up a bandwidth to do a proper frequency measurement.
That's amateur level mistake.
Defend him as much as you wish since this is cult-like atmosphere anyway.

So, you're here to save us all from our delusion?
Oh...except we are the ones who can actually backup our claims...that makes it tougher.

It also makes it tough that its clear that you really don't know what you are talking about.

Maybe you should abandon your righteous battle. Clearly we are all lost.

 

[daftcombo]

Amir tested like 150, 200 DACs or devices here, and still doesn't know how to properly set up a bandwidth to do a proper frequency measurement.
That's amateur level mistake.
Defend him as much as you wish since this is cult-like atmosphere anyway.

Please teach.

 

[THW]

let’s just say i regret clicking on “show ignored content”.

why do I keep doing this to myself...

 

[VintageFlanker]

That's amateur level mistake.

Excuse me?! Would be curious to know your background...