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Review and Measurements of Topping D50 DAC

Krunok

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good morning all, have just been reading thru this thread and see that the D50 is working for some with linux, and the specs and test results look good, but when I borrowed one and looked at how it was appearing, the XMOS chip does not show and it seems [from the /proc/asound output] to use DoP for DSD playback...


thanks and any thoughts welcome,


rikm


---

Card hw:1 'D50'/'Topping D50 at usb-0000:00:14.0-4.1, high speed'
Mixer name : 'USB Mixer'
Components : 'USB152a:8750'
Controls : 6
Simple ctrls : 3

That seems like a driver issue.
 

rikm

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That seems like a driver issue.


good morning Krunok and thanks for your reply, but I meant that the kernel did not see the Xmos chip and I was thinking another line in quirks.c was going to be needed...

eg. with the Gustard that usually resides where I put the D50, alsa shows:

---
Card hw:1 'x20'/'XMOS xCORE USB Audio 2.0 at usb-0000:00:14.0-4.1, high speed'
Mixer name : 'USB Mixer'
Components : 'USB20b1:000a'
Controls : 6
Simple ctrls : 3

---

and mpd will show:

Apr 07 09:57 : alsa_output: buffer: size=24..131072 time=272..1486078
Apr 07 09:57 : alsa_output: period: size=12..65536 time=136..743039
Apr 07 09:57 : alsa_output: format=DSD_U32_BE (Direct Stream Digital, 4-byte (x32), big endian, oldest bits in MSB)
Apr 07 09:57 : alsa_output: buffer_size=88200 period_size=256
Apr 07 09:57 : output: opened plugin=alsa name="X12" audio_format=dsd64:2

---

but the D50 shows:

Apr 06 11:10 : decoder_thread: probing plugin dsf
Apr 06 11:10 : decoder: audio_format=dsd64:2, seekable=true
Apr 06 11:10 : alsa_output: opened hw:1,0 type=HW
Apr 06 11:10 : alsa_output: buffer: size=90..131072 time=255..371520
Apr 06 11:10 : alsa_output: period: size=45..65536 time=127..185760
Apr 06 11:10 : alsa_output: default period_time = buffer_time/4 = 371519/4 = 92879
Apr 06 11:10 : client: [0] process command "status"

>>>---> Apr 06 11:10 : alsa_output: format=S32_LE (Signed 32 bit Little Endian)

Apr 06 11:10 : alsa_output: buffer_size=131072 period_size=32768
Apr 06 11:10 : output: opened plugin=alsa name="D50" audio_format=352800:32:2
Apr 06 11:10 : output: converting in=dsd64:2 -> f=dsd64:2 -> out=352800:32:2

---

...not saying it doesn't play, just that I am confused as to why mpd and the D50 do not want to use the native DSD format and was wondering if the way the D50 does not expose the Xmos chip to the kernel might be the answer


thanks again, and if anyone has any ideas...


rikm
 

Toku

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=== Noise on the ASIO native mode of D50 (continued) ===

Topping DX7s arrived from China, and compared with D50 immediately.
The result is exactly the same as D50. When playing in DSD native mode and switching songs, intense noise appears.
I used the following software for the audio player for PC, but all software generates noise.

Audio Player  TuneBrowser UWP Ver 4.3.2
Sound it! Pro for Windows
Sony Music Center Ver 1.0.12
foobar2000 Ver 1.3.17


From this result, I think that there is a problem with the driver software of XMOS (XU208) provided from Topping.
However, these machines are very good in sound, so we will use it in DOP mode where no noise appears for a while until a good solution is found.


I reported this issue to Topping this time. There is no answer from Topping yet.
 

1.0.1

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Hello,

I am interested in this DAC
But rikm scared me a little… So I'm waiting for feedbacks about the D50 under Linux too.
Is it fully Class Compliant USB ?

Thanks

(kernel 4.14.30-1-MANJARO)
 

Technobrakes

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Well I've had time to play with it and I'm well pleased. I'm running off a Samsung galaxy s7 using 'USB audio player pro'. I was going to report that it was incompatible as dsd and hi res glitched all over the place. I updated the software today and can say that it now plays faultlessly. No dsd issues, using this method. Great little DAC well worth the money in my opinion.
 

dwalme

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=== Noise on the ASIO native mode of D50 (continued) ===

Topping DX7s arrived from China, and compared with D50 immediately.
The result is exactly the same as D50. When playing in DSD native mode and switching songs, intense noise appears.
I used the following software for the audio player for PC, but all software generates noise.

Audio Player  TuneBrowser UWP Ver 4.3.2
Sound it! Pro for Windows
Sony Music Center Ver 1.0.12
foobar2000 Ver 1.3.17


From this result, I think that there is a problem with the driver software of XMOS (XU208) provided from Topping.
However, these machines are very good in sound, so we will use it in DOP mode where no noise appears for a while until a good solution is found.


I reported this issue to Topping this time. There is no answer from Topping yet.

Can you test on another computer?
 

Krunok

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...not saying it doesn't play, just that I am confused as to why mpd and the D50 do not want to use the native DSD format and was wondering if the way the D50 does not expose the Xmos chip to the kernel might be the answer

thanks again, and if anyone has any ideas...

rikm

Sorry M8, I can't help you with linux. But looking at the Toku's post I keep wondering if something is wrong with the native DSD playout in general.

Has somebody managed to get native DSD right on this device?
 

lotse888

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=== Noise on the ASIO native mode of D50 (continued) ===

Topping DX7s arrived from China, and compared with D50 immediately.
The result is exactly the same as D50. When playing in DSD native mode and switching songs, intense noise appears.
I used the following software for the audio player for PC, but all software generates noise.

Audio Player  TuneBrowser UWP Ver 4.3.2
Sound it! Pro for Windows
Sony Music Center Ver 1.0.12
foobar2000 Ver 1.3.17


From this result, I think that there is a problem with the driver software of XMOS (XU208) provided from Topping.
However, these machines are very good in sound, so we will use it in DOP mode where no noise appears for a while until a good solution is found.


I reported this issue to Topping this time. There is no answer from Topping yet.

Hi, Toku

Have you tried moved back to FB2K version 3.15 ? BTW, are you running AISO Proxy 0.9.4?

Regards,
 

Technobrakes

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[QUOTE="

Has somebody managed to get native DSD right on this device?[/QUOTE]

Seems fine on my mobile, using 'USB audio player pro'. It was really glitchy but i updated today and to my amazement its now spot on, no glitches no unwanted noise
 

rikm

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Sorry M8, I can't help you with linux. But looking at the Toku's post I keep wondering if something is wrong with the native DSD playout in general.

Has somebody managed to get native DSD right on this device?

---

...there seems to be some success reported above, is there a new driver from Topping then? It would be helpful if anyone who has reported improvements could verify that whatever software they are using is actually using native DSD mode and not simply making it work with DoP
 

Technobrakes

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---

...there seems to be some success reported above, is there a new driver from Topping then? It would be helpful if anyone who has reported improvements could verify that whatever software they are using is actually using native DSD mode and not simply making it work with DoP

Sorry to not be clear it was the app that i updated. Definatly native DSD
Screenshot_20180409-052221.png
 
OP
amirm

amirm

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...there seems to be some success reported above, is there a new driver from Topping then?
I like to know that too as the one I found in their drop box does not work at all for Asio in Roon.
 

Toku

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Can you test on another computer?

I tested the following three PCs. There is no problem with the ability of the PC.
And I tested four kinds of PC audio player software.
There is no change in symptoms occurring at D50 & DX7s.
I connect the USB cable from D50 to D10, everything works perfectly.

No1 PC ASRock DeskMini 110 (Windows10 Pro X64 1709)
CPU core i7 7700K Memory DDR4 2400 32GB SSD Samsung M.2 960EVO 250GB + HDD 2.5” 1TB

No2 PC Intel NUC 617KYK (Windows10 Pro X64 1709)
CPU core i7 6770HQ Memory DDR4 2400 16GB SSD Samung M.2 SM961 250GB + WD M.2 SSD 500GB

No3 PC ASRock DeskMini 110 (Windows10 Pro X64 1709)
CPU core i3 7320 Memory DDR4 2400 16GB SSD 2.5” SATA3 500GB + HDD 2.5” 1TB

PC Audio Player
TuneBrowser UWP Ver 4.3.2
Sound it! Pro for Windows
Sony Music Center Ver 1.0.12
foobar2000 Ver 1.3.17
 

Krunok

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I tested the following three PCs. There is no problem with the ability of the PC.
And I tested four kinds of PC audio player software.
There is no change in symptoms occurring at D50 & DX7s.
I connect the USB cable from D50 to D10, everything works perfectly.

No1 PC ASRock DeskMini 110 (Windows10 Pro X64 1709)
CPU core i7 7700K Memory DDR4 2400 32GB SSD Samsung M.2 960EVO 250GB + HDD 2.5” 1TB

No2 PC Intel NUC 617KYK (Windows10 Pro X64 1709)
CPU core i7 6770HQ Memory DDR4 2400 16GB SSD Samung M.2 SM961 250GB + WD M.2 SSD 500GB

No3 PC ASRock DeskMini 110 (Windows10 Pro X64 1709)
CPU core i3 7320 Memory DDR4 2400 16GB SSD 2.5” SATA3 500GB + HDD 2.5” 1TB

PC Audio Player
TuneBrowser UWP Ver 4.3.2
Sound it! Pro for Windows
Sony Music Center Ver 1.0.12
foobar2000 Ver 1.3.17

If you are able to play Native DSD on D10 but not on D50 than there's nothing wrong with your PC, player and USB cable. Either the ASIO driver for D50 is faulty or the device itself has a problem. As DX7s suffers from the same problem I'm inclined to believe it's the problem with the driver as I don't think it's very likely that both your devices are faulty.
 

bennetng

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I am from Hong Kong and I can read some Japanese, I think this piece of info from Toku's review is significant.

ノイズが確実に発生するのは同じビットレートの曲に移った時
2.8MHz > 2.8MHz  × ノイズ発生
5.6MHz > 5.6MHz   × ノイズ発生
11.2MHz > 11.2MHz × ノイズ発生

異なったビットレート間での曲の切替は
11.2MHz <> 5.6MHz △ 発生しにくい
11.2MHz <> 2.8MHz △ 発生しにくい
5.6MHz <> 2.8MHz △ 発生しにくい

The chance of getting noise is high when switching songs within the same bitrate (e.g. 2.8 > 2.8, 5.6 > 5.6 and so on), and unlikely to happen if switching song from one bitrate to another.

So it is highly likely to be some sort of compatibility/driver/firmware issue rather than QC problem. Honestly if I were Toku I will want my money back, I am not blaming Topping or anyone else but if a feature doesn't work and I don't know it will be fixed or not, then I will be in an unhappy and anxious state.
 

Toku

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Hi, Toku

Have you tried moved back to FB2K version 3.15 ? BTW, are you running AISO Proxy 0.9.4?

Regards,

Noise generation varies depending on how to switch songs.

Switching DSD <> DSD Noise generation
Switching DSD <> WAV / FLAC No noise

During playback> Select another song> Noise occurs when playing immediately.
If you change the operation as follows
During playback> Stop> Select another song> Play operation normally.

Noise is generated only when you move to a song of the same bit rate by manual operation.
Noise is not generated when playing multiple songs such as an album consecutively and manually sending the song backwards and returning.

2.8 MHz <> 2.8 MHz Noise generation
5.6 MHz <> 5.6 MHz Noise generation
11.2 MHz <> 11.2 MHz Noise generation

Switching songs between different bit rates
11.2 MHz <> 5.6 MHz Good
11.2 MHz <> 2.8 MHz Good
5.6 MHz <> 2.8 MHz Good

I found out the relationship beyond examination.
But connecting a USB cable from D50 to D10 will work perfectly.
Now I am very confused by this trouble.
I think the most suspicious thing is in USB drivers downloaded from Topping.

I am not good at English, so I'm worried whether I can convey what I want to say well.
 

Krunok

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No need to worry, you explained it well. I fully agree that this is driver and/or firmware issue.
 

Toku

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I am from Hong Kong and I can read some Japanese, I think this piece of info from Toku's review is significant.

ノイズが確実に発生するのは同じビットレートの曲に移った時
2.8MHz > 2.8MHz  × ノイズ発生
5.6MHz > 5.6MHz   × ノイズ発生
11.2MHz > 11.2MHz × ノイズ発生

異なったビットレート間での曲の切替は
11.2MHz <> 5.6MHz △ 発生しにくい
11.2MHz <> 2.8MHz △ 発生しにくい
5.6MHz <> 2.8MHz △ 発生しにくい

The chance of getting noise is high when switching songs within the same bitrate (e.g. 2.8 > 2.8, 5.6 > 5.6 and so on), and unlikely to happen if switching song from one bitrate to another.

So it is highly likely to be some sort of compatibility/driver/firmware issue rather than QC problem. Honestly if I were Toku I will want my money back, I am not blaming Topping or anyone else but if a feature doesn't work and I don't know it will be fixed or not, then I will be in an unhappy and anxious state.

Thank you for your comment.
That is an article I wrote.
Although I thought about returning at first, I decided to use it as it is because the sound is wonderful. DSD native playback works well if I choose the operation procedure.
I have already sent an e-mail to Topping this problem, but I do not receive a reply e-mail yet.
I expect Topping to seriously investigate this issue.
Due to this problem I bought three Topping DACs for D10 D50 DX 7s.
So I hope Topping will work more firmly.
 

rikm

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I like to know that too as the one I found in their drop box does not work at all for Asio in Roon.


Good morning amirm, and thanks for the website and your work here.

The issue I raised with linux is a little different, as I am thinking that unless the Xmos chip in the D50 can be seen by the kernel, there is not going to be a way to get application level software to talk to it...and I wonder if that would affect the ability of software on other platforms to deal with the D50 properly as well?

After all, it is one thing for a player app to present an option to 'play native DSD' and another as to what it is actually going on under the hood, if the driver and firmware do not cooperate. As I said in my first post, in my case mpd is configured to play DSD directly, and will do so when it can, but in the case of the D50 it could not--and yet played the track anyway. Not an error really, just doing what it could to play what it was told to

Is there anyway to test this in your lab, to see what the Topping driver is actually doing in your environment I mean, and can you confirm that the Xmos chip is visible to the OS on your test bench PC gear? It would interesting to discover how other platforms are seeing the D50


thanks again,

rikm
 

Krunok

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Due to this problem I bought three Topping DACs for D10 D50 DX 7s.

Did I understand correctly that DSD in DoP mode works well on D50 and DX7s even with Topping ASIO driver?
 
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