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Review and Measurements of Topping D50 DAC

dogged

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Thank you Amirn and everyone else that tried out the dsd files. I reinstalled Foobar and all its components including newer asio drivers and now the dsd256 plays!!! So it was the drivers all along. I am getting some low level noise but I will probably try taping the ground on the usb later today when I get a chance. Thanks again.
 

Rabindra

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Morning All,
Just received my unit yesterday evening. I already started using it as a dac for my marantz cd player. Question: is there a need to download any software if I am only using it as a dac for the cd player ?, there seems no issue now but just curious whether there is any advantage to the software ?

Question :how long is the burn in period?

Question: there are 7 digital filters, by default it is filter 1, any ideas or recommendations which filter to use, I am using regular cd only.

Thank you.
 

Toku

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Of course DSD64 plays too:

View attachment 11876


So if there are some issues here, it is ASIO related.

Toku-san, have you tried WASAPI to see if that works instead of ASIO? And any chance you could share the track that is causing the problem?


I switch between using ASIO and WASAPI, but there is no noise problem with WASAPI. It works perfectly.
Noise comes out only when playing DSD in ASIO native mode.
Again, noises do not occur when I connect the USB cable to D10. It works perfectly.
I reported this problem to Topping, but I have not received a response yet.
I think there is a problem with the driver software for D50 supplied by Topping.
 

skrekk

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And it's also not clear how volume control works with DSD data, but ESS says the DSD data is never converted back to PCM.
I wonder how they're doing that on the Pro-Ject version given that you can set different volumes for the RCA and headphone outputs. Presumably on the D50 they're just using the 9038's gain register in the DSP block.
 

rebbiputzmaker

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Well, you can upsample to whatever frequency you like but that simply cannot enhance the sound as the information is there only to fill the 16/44.1 bucket. But, as you are continuously pushing DAC chip to work on its limits by processing DSD512 format, you can expect it to last shorter. :D

I can hardly imagine that ES9038Q2M, which is used in Pro-ject S2 box, gives any better results in DSD512 format than in PCM or any other DSD formats.
Sometimes it is better to try things before making proclamations and absolute statements. Also better to state them as opinions, especially when they are rather incorrect, IMO. :)
 

Veri

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Sometimes it is better to try things before making proclamations and absolute statements. Also better to state them as opinions, especially when they are rather incorrect, IMO. :)

You stating sampling to DSD512 is better isn't exactly "proven" either you know, I'd be certainly amazed if you could prove you can hear any difference, but hey I'm tempted to try DSD512 once I get my next DAC and test it for myself to see if it's worth any of my laptop processing power;
 

Krunok

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Sometimes it is better to try things before making proclamations and absolute statements. Also better to state them as opinions, especially when they are rather incorrect, IMO. :)

Not sure what about you're talking, but pushing every processor to its limits results in temperature stress which shortens it's lifetime.

If you are talking about alleged ES3018Q2M ability to be able to handle DSD512 with less harmonic distortion than PCM and other DSD formats - I would need a few more measurements taken in a very controlled environment and from a few more different sources to start believing in that.

I don't mind you talking about technology, this is what this forum is all about. I also don't mind differences in opinion. But I do mind when a stranger starts to give me personal advice, so in the future please keep it to yourself.
 

Krunok

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You stating sampling to DSD512 is better isn't exactly "proven" either you know,

Exactly.

I'd be certainly amazed if you could prove you can hear any difference, but hey I'm tempted to try DSD512 once I get my next DAC and test it for myself to see if it's worth any of my laptop processing power;

Hearing such small differences is absolutely out of the question, even the measurement equipment is struggling to get them precisely.
Regarding DSD512 files - I am not able to find any recordings that were natively produced in that format, only upsampled ones.
 

rebbiputzmaker

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Not sure what about you're talking, but pushing every processor to its limits results in temperature stress which shortens it's lifetime.

If you are talking about alleged ES3018Q2M ability to be able to handle DSD512 with less harmonic distortion than PCM and other DSD formats - I would need a few more measurements taken in a very controlled environment and from a few more different sources to start believing in that.

I don't mind you talking about technology, this is what this forum is all about. I also don't mind differences in opinion. But I do mind when a stranger starts to give me personal advice, so in the future please keep it to yourself.
You have a pretty serious misunderstanding on how these things work and what actually happens when you send an up-sampled file to an DAC chip, but go right ahead.

The author of HQ Player was mentioned earlier in the thread I believe. If you have an interest in accurate information and learning more on this subject, you can look for his postings on the net. Good luck.
 
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lotse888

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You stating sampling to DSD512 is better isn't exactly "proven" either you know, I'd be certainly amazed if you could prove you can hear any difference, but hey I'm tempted to try DSD512 once I get my next DAC and test it for myself to see if it's worth any of my laptop processing power;

I don't mean to take side or start another argument needlessly, I don't think he made the statement that D512 is better (please correct me if I am wrong).

I stop describing "A sounds better than B" in general terms long time ago since I "discovered" that different people hear differently. And how we perceived the sound also depends the condition of our body at the time the audition was made. Not to mention preconceived notion (personal biases). If someone can hear something that I cannot, I should not made a judgement and say it is impossible since the measurement showed that it is not likely. If I want to say A sounds better than B, then I always have to qualify it as "in my experience".

The main reason I like ASR is the way Amirm present the reviews, the main focus is on measurements, followed by a brief discussion of personal experience on the sound. Objectivity is the key. Minimum personal judgement.

Regards,
 

rebbiputzmaker

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You stating sampling to DSD512 is better isn't exactly "proven" either you know, I'd be certainly amazed if you could prove you can hear any difference, but hey I'm tempted to try DSD512 once I get my next DAC and test it for myself to see if it's worth any of my laptop processing power;
Well best to try it and see. It is accepted that the DSD path in the ESS chips is simpler and sending up sampled DSD to them should provide an improvement. As to whether this is audible, try it and see. I myself do not currently bother doing this, but I have tried and felt there can be some benefit. Depends on the DAC you are using, I do not care for ESS in my home system, but do use one in my phone/ portable.
 
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amirm

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You have a pretty serious misunderstanding on how these things work and what actually happens when you send an up-sampled file to an DAC chip, but go right ahead.

The author of HQ Player was mentioned earlier in the thread I believe. If you have an interest in accurate information and learning more on this subject, you can look for his postings on the net. Good luck.
His postings have nothing reliable about subjective listening tests. So please don't defer to him on what sounds good or doesn't, lest you can point to controlled listening tests he has performed.
 
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amirm

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Well best to try it and see. It is accepted that the DSD path in the ESS chips is simpler and sending up sampled DSD to them should provide an improvement.
It is not accepted here.
 
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amirm

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As to whether this is audible, try it and see. I myself do not currently bother doing this, but I have tried and felt there can be some benefit.
Did you have someone else do the switching while you were not looking and could identify which was which?
 

Netspirit

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This isn't directed at any one company or any people, but this is what I dislike about the proliferation of formats and the idea higher sample rates and bit depths are automatically a benefit.

This (great, IMHO) article claims that high sample rates and ultrasonic frequencies are actually detrimental to the audible sound quality:
https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

Basically, playing ultrasonic frequencies through some speakers results in intermodulation distortions in the audible 20Hz - 20kHz range. I played their 96kHz files through Emotiva DC-1 and Focal CMS-50, and heard that myself very, very well - as a result, since then I have never set the sampling rate above 48kHz for that particular DAC+speakers setup.
 

garbulky

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This (great, IMHO) article claims that high sample rates and ultrasonic frequencies are actually detrimental to the audible sound quality:
https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

Basically, playing ultrasonic frequencies through some speakers results in audible intermodulation distortions. I played their 96kHz files through Emotiva DC-1 and Focal CMS-50, and heard that myself very, very well - as a result, since then I have never set the sampling rate above 48kHz for that particular DAC+speakers setup.
So you are saying the speakers caused the distortion or the dac was distorting?
 

Netspirit

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So you are saying the speakers caused the distortion or the dac was distorting?

In my case, I assume it was my speakers, but I don't know. I set DC-1 to 48kHz, and the noise disappeared.

From the article: "Assuming your system is actually capable of full 96kHz playback, the above files should be completely silent with no audible noises, tones, whistles, clicks, or other sounds. If you hear anything, your system has a nonlinearity causing audible intermodulation of the ultrasonics."
 

dc655321

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In my case, I assume it was my speakers, but I don't know.

Speakers only turn an electrical signal into an acoustic one. Look further upstream.
It is an interesting and informative article, pointed at from more than a few sources.
Should be on a "Required Reading" list :)
 

rebbiputzmaker

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Did you have someone else do the switching while you were not looking and could identify which was which?
Actually no as I was not really that interested, or a big fan of up sampling to DSD or for that matter DSD at all. My point was more that to totally discount the entire up sampling/ conversion process is rather short sighted. Chip manufactures have put allot of thought into conversion/ up sampling within their chips. If it made zero difference and once you have the "bucket" of bits nothing else mattered we would still be using some prehistoric dacs. The people who like external conversion feel they have more control/ better filters etc. YMMV.
 
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