Revel Performa 3 vs ML Electromotion ESL - comparative measurements

[FrantzM]

One thing for sure. Revel seems to represent the (or perhaps one of the) greatest bang for the buck in speakers. Perhaps I should think about the F208 ( I believe Kal mentioned how close they are/were to the Salon2 Ultima in term of sound and measurements) . I am one who believe in always using subwoofers ("s" as in more than 2 subwoofers) and to high pass the mains. Something like the f208 or 308 (if there is one ) with a quartet o Rythmik subs may end my quest for an ed-game speaker system ... Okto Research + NC-300 Hypex DIY and be done for a while ...

P.S. The impedance graph of the Revel is smooth and impressive. Doesn't go above 10 and stays around 8 for most of the Frequency Range.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I did not know that. I would love to see polars and how they handle treble dispersion. The last esls I heard sounded dark but good, great bass ( acoustat big guys)

Just because they are likely to make such measurements does not mean that they will offer the results publicly.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

One thing for sure. Revel seems to represent the (or perhaps one of the) greatest bang for the buck in speakers. Perhaps I should think about the F208 ( I believe Kal mentioned how close they are/were to the Salon2 Ultima in term of sound and measurements) .

I am quite familiar with both but I have never compared them side-by-side.

Something like the f208 or 308 (if there is one ) ...... ...

There is nothing like the latter in the Performa line at the moment.

 

[amirm]

Just because they are likely to make such measurements does not mean that they will offer the results publicly.

Just as well, because the Paradigm group runs and has access to anechoic chamber and blind testing, it doesn't mean the ML group utilizes either. I remain doubtful that such testing is done by the ML group unless you tell me otherwise.

 

[amirm]

Perhaps I should think about the F208 ( I believe Kal mentioned how close they are/were to the Salon2 Ultima in term of sound and measurements) .

I was listening to F208Be at a show and asked my friend and colleague Kevin Voecks how it compares to Salon 2 as the sound I was hearing from the F208Be was fantastic. His answer? "Salon 2 smokes it in blind tests."

Amir, Owner of a pair of Revel Salon 2.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Just as well, because the Paradigm group runs and has access to anechoic chamber and blind testing, it doesn't mean the ML group utilizes either. I remain doubtful that such testing is done by the ML group unless you tell me otherwise.

Their speakers all tend to measure relatively well. Are you suggesting they are designed without measurement?

 

[Krunok]

Their speakers all tend to measure relatively well. Are you suggesting they are designed without measurement?

He is also suggesting that we should trust Director of Technology at Harman when he claims that "Salon 2 smokes F208Be in the blind test".
Like he would tell anything else..

What would be interesting is of course an independent blind test and measurements.

 

[Juhazi]

Based on measurements of Salon2 and F208, I think that I couldn't identify each in blind test. Anyway, it would be a minute marginal.
- Makes me to start to think about the concept of marginal utility in economics...

 

[Crane]

It would be nice to get feedback/blind test of the f208 vs f228be vs studio2 vs salon2 since they all measure well and see if the salon2 smokes them or is just marginally better. Also, if it is like suggested adding subs would basically diminish the benefit of a salon2 vs performa line for the cost.

 

[Krunok]

It would be nice to get feedback/blind test of the f208 vs f228be vs studio2 vs salon2 since they all measure well and see if the salon2 smokes them or is just marginally better. Also, if it is like suggested adding subs would basically diminish the benefit of a salon2 vs performa line for the cost.

For a start it would be nice to have THD data but Harman doesn't publish them.

 

[daftcombo]

Hard to say but the ML keeps strong up to 20 kHz.

 

[Krunok]

I think @Blumlein 88 was suggesting that panels are likely to exhibit more pronounced response peaks/dips as one moves up/down or left/right by a few degrees. In other words, it would be more useful to average out a number of measurements taken from various positions clustered around the central axis and to average them - something along the lines of a "listening window" response. I don't think he's suggesting taking these measurements at angles greater than say 15° off-axis.

The same is of course true for measurements any speaker as you say, just particularly so for panels.

Wouldn't you say the same is also true for any speaker in an untreated room as typically those rooms are usually "reflection happy"?

 

[andreasmaaan]

Wouldn't you say the same is also true for any speaker in an untreated room as typically those rooms are usually "reflection happy"?

I was actually talking about anechoic or quasi-anechoic measurements, not in-room measurements.

But yeh, for in-room measurements it's also vital to measure from a number of locations for the reasons you mention

 

[Dogan]

I am one who believe in always using subwoofers ("s" as in more than 2 subwoofers) and to high pass the mains.

I have a 2.1 setup and yesterday I decided to play with the high pass filter frequency. This is the result (without EQ, 1/24 smoothing) at the listening position when the HPF is reduced from 80Hz (green) to 50hz (blue) which I believe is the lowest limit for my mains:

It looks like adding 2 more subs, at least between the 50-80Hz range, to the room. Measurements from other locations confirm the same improvement. From what I understand, the more subs the merrier. So, what is the practical benefit of using a high pass in the first place?

Forgive me if that's a lame thing to ask.

Dogan

 

[andreasmaaan]

It looks like adding 2 more subs, at least between the 50-80Hz range, to the room. Measurements from other locations confirm the same improvement. From what I understand, the more subs the merrier. So, what is the practical benefit of using a high pass in the first place?

Basically, to reduce stress on the mains.

In your case, I would attribute the improvement you see there to (for some reason) the mains and subs integrating better when your high-pass filter is at 50Hz vs when it's at 80Hz.

If you have finer control over your filters, you should be able to find appropriate filters and/or delay to allow your mains and subs to better integrate at 80Hz too.

 

[Krunok]

I have a 2.1 setup and yesterday I decided to play with the high pass filter frequency. This is the result (without EQ, 1/24 smoothing) at the listening position when the HPF is reduced from 80Hz (green) to 50hz (blue) which I believe is the lowest limit for my mains:

View attachment 25224

It looks like adding 2 more subs, at least between the 50-80Hz range, to the room. Measurements from other locations confirm the same improvement. From what I understand, the more subs the merrier. So, what is the practical benefit of using a high pass in the first place?

Forgive me if that's a lame thing to ask.

Dogan

Forgive me for asking this, but how is this related to the topic?

 

[Dogan]

Forgive me for asking this, but how is this related to the topic?

Sorry, my bad. But I tried to learn something useful before someone mentions Hitler

Dogan

 

[Krunok]

Sorry, my bad. But I tried to learn something useful before someone mentions Hitler

Dogan

Hahaha - no problem.

 

[amirm]

Their speakers all tend to measure relatively well. Are you suggesting they are designed without measurement?

They don't measure well in anechoic measurements with 70 points:

The addition of Anthem Room Correction should improve the low frequency scores compared to above but the rest of the issues remain.

 

[amirm]

He is also suggesting that we should trust Director of Technology at Harman when he claims that "Salon 2 smokes F208Be in the blind test".
Like he would tell anything else..

Like, what do you know about him and his relationship with me?

If you have some real data on this, let us know. Otherwise, he (and Harman) are the only company with such data. It is not like you have this data at all from any other company.