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Revel M105 Copy DIY build

D!sco

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This is a really nice build. 3D printed components are on the level of active crossovers for new school cool. Can't wait to see the finish!
 

Wolf

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I built your zingers a couple years back, they are still in heavy use at a friends house!
Fantastic! I didn't know they had made it down under yet. I'm glad they are being enjoyed!
 

dwkdnvr

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Slow on the reply here, but this is fantastic work - well done. This seems like the obvious 'no brainer' idea for Brandon's waveguides, but this is the first I've seen anyone follow through and execute it. I'll have to total up the parts cost, but it looks like maybe $350/pr plus cabinets? If so, in my view this puts itself way up on the list of 'recommendable' designs for people looking for a DIY design.

Back during 'early covid' I was headed down a couple paths with speaker design experiments, and a 105 clone with Brandon's waveguides was one of them. I was taking the approach of CNC machining the waveguide directly into the baffle, but never quite got my 2-sided machining techniques dialed in. It all stalled when we moved. I'm getting closer to having shop space set up though, and this may be something I revisit as an early motivational project. My primary system is Kef R3 + Rythmik FM8s, and dropping a 105 clone design into that to compare with the R3 would be very interesting.
 
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McFly

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Erin, Now that would be cool!! BUT Before anyone does, I’ve ordered a calibrated mic from cross spectrum labs. Let me have another crack at making sure my crossover is on point before doing so. Everything looks good with the mics I do have, but would have more confidence after reviewing and doing some more testing with the calibrated mic and possible confirmation with some ground plane measurements (I have a large driveway where I should be able to get this done). I’m also working on tidying up my measurement rig a bit this month.

Especially with the issue where I’m not getting HF crossover consistency with my measurements vs VCAD - It would be a shame to use NFS time on something that wasn’t as perfect as could be. If I can iron that out, I will have a lot more confidence. One thing for certain is the combination of drivers is great. Nice job Revel! And SBAcoustics! And Brandon.
 
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McFly

McFly

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Side note - I should do a time lapse-ish video on how to route the elliptical shapes into the baffle. I think it puts some people off, but it’s a lot easier than you’d think. It does take a bit more time, but is rewarding when done right.
 

hardisj

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It would be a shame to use NFS time on something that wasn’t as perfect as could be.

Dude, it's not that bad at all. For the vast majority of speakers it's comically easy. There are some cases that I have to spend more time on - like tower speakers that I then groundplane test for sanity. But all things considered, it's nothing compared to what I used to do when I would spend a bare minimum of 8 hours of manually testing a speaker 140+ angles. With the NFS, though, it's easy. I test overnight. So, I'm asleep. Takes 4-8 hours usually to get a full spin, plus the time to process the data. But, it's all automated other than the initial setup which takes about 5 minutes. When I see people talk about "precious time" with the NFS, I laugh or roll my eyes. So, yea, don't sweat that.

The part that takes time is gathering the data, formatting it, sharing it and explaining it.
 
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hardisj

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As an aside, I'm planning on making content around the pitfalls of the typical quasi-anechoic and groundplane measurement methods. Having years of experience doing things the "hard way", I learned a lot. And I'm certain I can share some of that knowledge and how the results compare to the true anechoic response. It's eye-opening to measure a speaker using the groundplane method standing up vs on its side and see the result differences. And the aiming much be very precise which often means tilting the speaker which then means breaking the connection between the ground which can create fussy LF issues. So, if you happen to run into results that may not match perfectly with the NFS, I'd say to not be entirely surprised. Especially in the midrange area.

At any rate, the offer stands. I have no problem helping out the DIY crowd to get a design nailed down so that everyone can benefit. I'm working with someone now on something like this. I've said that countless times in my reviews of the DIYSG designs. **Within reason, of course (I don't want to be soldering for days and I sure don't want to feel like I'm being taken advantage of by providing my time only to see a design being sold for profit).**
 

LTig

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Great work!

An interesting spin-off of this speaker would be a sealed housing, to be used in a 2.1 configuration. Better group delay and no port resonances.
 

ElNino

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This is amazing work! For what it's worth, on my genuine M105s, I think the first port resonance is audible when listening from a position to the rear of the speaker. (I think I've posted before about taking my pair over to a friend's who was trying to outfit his open concept condo, where the kitchen is located behind the speakers.) LTig's suggestion to provide a sealed tuning seems like a good idea for niche installations like this.
 
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This is a really great project @McFly and an inspiration for people like me attempting similar projects with similar drivers. Hats off to you for taking it this far. :)
I am trying to build a full DSP crossover 3 way with 2x WO24P-8 woofers, SB15CAC30-8 mid and SB26CDC tweeter in an augerpro elliptical waveguide similar to yours. I got a tremendous amount of help from FM fluid who did ABEC simulations for studying the directivity of the overall speaker configuration and in reaching the above configuration of drivers. Here are some very crude prototype pics and initial measurements using a dayton emm-6 mic
Pic-1 shows Initial cabinet and baffle shape. In the final build, it will have 2 woofers like in pic-2. Pic-3 shows a prototype mid + tweeter baffle i made out of XPS foam for experimentation and Pic-4 shows the initial measurements I got from the tweeter on the baffle.
My build thread is here: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/a-3-way-design-study.376620/
I am planning to build the final cabinet and complete this build in the coming months and i will surely look forward to learn more from your build. Wishing all the best. :)
 

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augerpro

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Erin> I'm designing a family of speakers soon, using my waveguides, CLD construction, and port that eliminates the pipe resonances. The first examples will be 2-way bookshelf-type speakers as a proof of concept. I would be curious how those look on the Klippel.
 

hardisj

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Erin> I'm designing a family of speakers soon, using my waveguides, CLD construction, and port that eliminates the pipe resonances. The first examples will be 2-way bookshelf-type speakers as a proof of concept. I would be curious how those look on the Klippel.

Shoot me a PM and I'll give you my number and we can talk and go from there.
 

Tangband

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Fantastic work !:)
Really nice to see how the crossover is done.
 

augerpro

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Side note - I should do a time lapse-ish video on how to route the elliptical shapes into the baffle. I think it puts some people off, but it’s a lot easier than you’d think. It does take a bit more time, but is rewarding when done right.
Next week I'll be testing a 3D-printed template. If it works well, I'll be posting them on my site and also update all the waveguide files because the mounting flange has to be tweaked. People would need a 5/16" OD and 1" OD template guide bushing to use it.

jARjNFU.jpg
 

D!sco

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It occurs to me these techniques could be used to reduce the overall baffle surface, a la Revel Salon 2. You could CNC or 3D print a fully reduced front baffle, perfect for the drivers to sit in. The use of negative space in baffle design could have a lot more application than just 2-way.
Screen Shot 2022-01-07 at 18.24.09.png


My roommate has a Snapmaker 3.0, a handy little 3-in-1 "maker" tool with 3D printing, laser cutting, and CNC all in the same box. 3D printing is by far the most used in the house. I wonder if the materials are good enough for front baffle use. I've often thought about redoing my Speedsters with slot ports, braces, fancy joint work, and perfect chamfer edges in CNC.

Hexibase is a great youtube channel with fully 3D printed enclosures. He mostly works on high order ports and car bass, but his research is very cutting edge and I feel like this thread would appreciate it.
 

TLEDDY

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My main reason for posting to this thread is to express my awe and extreme admiration for the knowledge expressed herein!

I make no pretense of understanding all presented; I simply hope that some of the information will stick in my now 80 year-old brain.

Thank you for sharing!!

Tillman in Florida
 

617

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It occurs to me these techniques could be used to reduce the overall baffle surface, a la Revel Salon 2. You could CNC or 3D print a fully reduced front baffle, perfect for the drivers to sit in. The use of negative space in baffle design could have a lot more application than just 2-way.
View attachment 177489

My roommate has a Snapmaker 3.0, a handy little 3-in-1 "maker" tool with 3D printing, laser cutting, and CNC all in the same box. 3D printing is by far the most used in the house. I wonder if the materials are good enough for front baffle use. I've often thought about redoing my Speedsters with slot ports, braces, fancy joint work, and perfect chamfer edges in CNC.

Hexibase is a great youtube channel with fully 3D printed enclosures. He mostly works on high order ports and car bass, but his research is very cutting edge and I feel like this thread would appreciate it.
I've thought about this as well. I have a 3dp with a 300mm square bed, so I have space to make a baffle for a mid/tweeter.

One thing you could do is use a very sparse honeycomb infil with no shell on the back side of the baffle, so that you end up with a bunch of hexagonal cavities you can then fill with some kind of heavier inert material. You essentially make a shell which is then filled with bondo or epoxy mixed with sawdust or rubber particles.

The problem really becomes the fact that 3d printed surfaces tend not to be that smooth or attractive but there are ways you can deal with that.
 

Madjalapeno

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I 3D printed lots of parts when I built my LXMini's. Here is a test fit.

844776F3-3811-47EC-B22C-59CAD59F8D7D_1_105_c.jpeg


Using a sparse build, but with extra outer layers meant I could fill the voids. For the outer surfaces I used XTC-3D from Smooth-On (https://www.smooth-on.com/products/xtc-3d/), which brushes on and sands easily. I finished everything with a coating of truck bed liner, and then a rattle can of white on top of that.


28D768A6-486B-44D9-A1B2-C1B080D53F63_1_105_c.jpeg


The B&W's are now just used in a spare bedroom. Should really sell them.
 
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