Resolve's B&K 5128 Headphone Target - you can try the EQ's.....

[markanini]

I don't think Harman compatible measurements will be disappearing unless significant further work is done on B&K 5128.

Resolve discontinued 43AG measurements for BK5128. Jude discontinued 45BB measurements for BK5128.

 

[solderdude]

Resolve discontinued 43AG measurements for BK5128. Jude discontinued 45BB measurements for BK5128.

I don't think he discontinued 43AG measurements

at the very least it'll include data from GRAS and B&K. I'm hopeful we can have more to show folks in the near future.

 

[markanini]

BTW @Resolve do you consider your measurements private domain or intellectual property? Because a person that digitized your Gras RA0402 measurements and uploaded to his unlisted squig.link, giving you credit, got the word to take them down, by another person internating with this thread, @_listener_. @_listener_ is a mod on headhpnes.com discord sever for those that don't know.

 

[solderdude]

We'll have to wait and see.

I don't care which fixture is used as long as relevant data is coming from the posted plots.
Plots should be taken with a handful of salt anyway and 43AG is just different from 5218 both may not be close to the truth where the truth is a copy of the measured headphone on your head.

 

[Resolve]

That standard must have industry buy in (and it seems to me as an outsider) that only @Sean Olive and the Harman team can really define that new curve or somehow accommodate the data from the 5128 into a revision of the existing curve. But looking at such sites as squig.link - it seems that everyone wants their own curve anyway so I don't see the harm in @Resolve and the headphones.com team defining their "own curve" - just don't call it a standard, maybe a "headphones.com preference curve".

I would want to delineate what we're working on from reviewer targets on squiglink. While I understand why they do that - and people may even want this - there's at least a... semantic issue with the concept of reviewer targets. By and large, those are based on the preferences of a single individual, and in no way can that be suitable for an actual 'reference' curve. It may be useful for the audience to know what a particular reviewer likes, so they can calibrate their understanding of how they evaluate a product, but those can't be held up as any kind of actual reference.

The second thing I'll say here is that industry buy-in from Dr. Olive and Harman may be a requirement for many who are familiar with their research, but there there is additional research on this topic outside of what Harman has done. The Harman research is just the most comprehensive, and I'd argue the most useful so far. But as it relates to buy-in, I was speaking with Sean about all of this and he did indicate they want to do research with the 5128 as well since that's set the new measurement standard. I think we can all look forward to that.

 

[Resolve]

I'm basing my stament on:
https://forum.headphones.com/t/index-collection-of-measurements-made-by-resolve/15251 Last 43AG measurement is from last year.

And, a conversation with someone that privately collects his measurements.

I literally posted one this week... That index hasn't been updated in a while. Also, weren't you in the Blessing 3 thread? That was done on the 43AG as well.

 

[markanini]

I literally posted one this week... That index hasn't been updated in a while. Also, weren't you in the Blessing 3 thread? That was done on the 43AG as well.

So you expect someone to stalk you across multiple forums, for measurements? And that wouldn't seem like a strange expectation, to you?

 

[Resolve]

So you expect someone to stalk you across multiple forums, for measurements? And that wouldn't seem like a strange expectation, to you?

haha for what? I'm under no obligation to post any measurements here. I post them in relevant threads on our forum, because... it's our forum, as well as our review content. Also, the kind third party who put together the index of measurements I've done is under no obligation to update and maintain the index. They just did it because they felt like it. Rest assured, this stuff will eventually all be in one spot. But... the inconvenience for you to not see all of our data in one place currently really doesn't betray any expectation on my part for people to follow me around the internet. I gotta say, that's one of the weirdest accusations yet. But I'm here for it hahaha.

 

[markanini]

the inconvenience

This, acknowledging that finding 43AG measurements from is harder rather than easier. Lets stick to the establishing simple realities before eagerly chaining the subject to various commentary.

 

[Resolve]

This, acknowledging that finding 43AG measurements from is harder rather than easier. Lets stick to the establishing simple realities before eagerly chaining the subject to various commentary.

So... the fact that someone else hasn't update their index of my 43AG data is somehow indicative of me deliberately making it harder to find? I don't have an index of B&K measurements either yet. These are things we're currently in the process of building. The only thing kind of like that is the topic this thread is about, and that only has a handful of them - and it's for an entirely different purpose. This is really reaching for it.

 

[markanini]

Boy, who would imagine asking simple question evoking such an animated response. I didn't even press you on the IP aspect.

 

[Resolve]

Boy, who would imagine asking simple question evoking such an animated response. I didn't even press you on the IP aspect.

Oh I assure you, this is actually quite humorous to me.

 

[Resolve]

Speaking of
View attachment 283493

Yeah people love to claim science as being on their side. I've said this before but... so much of this stuff is deeply entrenched in appeals to authority without actually considering the information. It leads to information silos and a lot of bad faith dialogue, all in the spirit of acquiring what amounts to empty confidence. That's not really a game I'm interested in playing.

 

[markanini]

Yeah people love to claim science as being on their side. I've said this before but... so much of this stuff is deeply entrenched in appeals to authority without actually considering the information. It leads to information silos and a lot of bad faith dialogue, all in the spirit of acquiring what amounts to empty confidence. That's not really a game I'm interested in playing.

So why such a intense effort on talking up BK5128 and talking down 43AG? Patience beyond comprehension is given by the host to multiple commercial actors that are allowed to act without restriction. Are we watching the same movie?

@amirm claims the new rig its not not entirely suitable and has the hands on experience and expertise to back it up. The time and energy spent by your team pushing the new rig on forums could have gone to actually creating a validated target. The activity includes, at different times, sometime daily, special arguments, whataboutism and walls of text, picking apart single words of those that wish to raise slight concerns. I think I know who's claims are worth more, based on that alone.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

I don't think he discontinued 43AG measurements

His last grado video doesn't have 43ag measurements.

 

[Resolve]

So why such a intense effort on talking up BK5128 and talking down 43AG?

The fact that you wrote this shows you clearly haven't been paying attention - or you're outright misrepresenting our stance, at this point it's admittedly hard to tell. Nobody is talking down the GRAS. The 5128 simply has a more accurate acoustic impedance to the human ear canal, and is better at low and high frequencies. But that doesn't mean the GRAS, nor the work that's been done with it so far is invalid. And we've maintained this position since the very beginning.

@amirm claims the new rig its not not entirely suitable and has the hands on experience and expertise to back it up.

Yet again the appeal to authority rears its head. This is exactly what I'm talking about. What I'm hearing is that because one person can't make sense of it... it's therefore not suitable across the board. That's literally just empty confidence.

 

[Resolve]

His last grado video doesn't have 43ag measurements.

Yeah, we're currently beta testing a bunch of slopes, so the focus has been on the 5128. The thing is, we've measured Grados in the past on the 43AG already. For new products (or at least new to our lab) they get both.

 

[_listener_]

The most recent measurement I’ve actually seen from Resolve was actually a 43AG measurement of the Audivina, posted to our Discord server a few days ago.

He did not “discontinue” use of the 43AG and he has stated multiple times that he has no intention to—in fact the converse is true and both he and Mad_Economist have a common interest in comparing GRAS and B&K (among other things) data.

 

[Robbo99999]

@markanini , I for one would appreciate if you stop your little sniping & nitpicking that you're demonstrating on this particular page. A lot of it has been discussed before anyway, it's really just wasting space in the thread as well as harassing the creators of the project.

 

[Mad_Economist]

I didn't even press you on the IP aspect.

Headphones.com's measurements are indeed their IP - so too are my measurements (that is, those done on my personal gear) my IP, but I'm quite unconcerned with people using mine. This is pretty standard - e.g. @oratory1990's measurements are the IP of his firm.