Recommend for pair of 12" sealed passive subwoofers

[Jdunk54nl]

The cheapest way is to always buy the driver then build and finish the box on your own.

If you can't do that, if really look into the monolith or svs subs.

 

[ppataki]

Hello people,
would anyone be able to kindly suggest me a project for the realization of a passive and sealed subwoofer with 12" scandinavian driver? (or Dayton Audio maybe ...they are available in Europe).
Possibly something for which distortion as well as frequency response is known.
As for the amplifier, I have an NC502MP with which I would amplify the pair, while for the LPF filter I manage everything digitally.
It should be something easy... but I have not found anything satisfactory on the web.
Thanks in advance.

I could strongly recommend what I have done (Dayton subs with Hypex amp):

DIY Audio Nirvana 12" + Dayton Reference FAST project

I am sharing with you yet another DIY project we have done with my neighbor (who is a carpenter...:)) much earlier this year It is a FAST (Fullrange Assisted Subwoofer Technology) system consisting of 12" Audio Nirvana Classic fullrange speakers and Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 subs I could not find...

audiosciencereview.com

I have moved to Dayton DIY subs from SVS subs and I can tell you that they DIYs sounded waaaay better
So all in all, I would recommend the Dayton subs (do perform simulations with BassBox Pro or equivalent though!!) and you will surely be amazed vs any commercially available solutions

 

[Davide]

Thanks, nice feedback!

 

[Wolf]

My Overdrive10 project was much cleaner than the 12" SVS i compared it to, and in half the size.

 

[muad]

My Overdrive10 project was much cleaner than the 12" SVS i compared it to, and in half the size.

Any links to your project?

 

[Wolf]

MrPotatoHead just built one on this forum.

I built a sub - the Overdrive10

Over a year ago I posted here that was searching for a design for a DIY sub. There were several great suggestions, but I ended up going with the Overdrive10 designed by @Wolf. It's a bandpass design with a 10-inch Dayton driver and a passive radiator. I bought the hardware a year ago and finally...

www.audiosciencereview.com

"Overdrive 10" a PR-bandpass sub...

This all started with my 'Convergence' project on a quest for a great bandpass design using a PR as the exit. Initially it was a TB W8-1445A (one-off production sample from the Tent Sale, and also this next item too) and an Eminence 12" PR. I wrote up the project here: Techtalk Speaker Building...

www.diyaudio.com

 

[Andrej]

Anyway thanks for the suggestions, at the moment it seems that Dayton Audio solutions are the favorites in terms of value.
Too bad that German site is badly translated ... I don't understand exactly what they sell.

I recommend that you look at the distortion figures for a couple of Dayton 18" drivers on data-bass.com (under "Systems") And perhaps more importantly I would encourage you to compare the closed box vs vented box response and distortion of the BMS 18" driver, it was an eye opener for me. One of the best drivers around too But Ultimax is almost as good and waayy cheaper, based on those tests

 

[Tangband]

DIY subs not competing with commerical offerings? That's a new one for me.

Pretty sure a little 10-12" kit from PE would eat a 7040 or 7050 alive for much less money.

Im talking quality not quantity. The most important thing in a subwoofer is correct LP and HP filtering, where Genelec eat all other brands alive. This is crucial to get a really good sound. Most people dont understand this. And the value in the long run Is much better with a good fabric sub.

As a DIY:er who has built 11 different subwoofers ( including some isobarics ) thru the years - one of the most important things to get right even with a closed box is the Linkwitz transformer slope at the exactly right frequency with correct Q, AND the right box size. This means that if youre not incredible lucky in the first place you have to build a couple of test boxes of different sizes. You also have to paint the inside of a raw MDF box because MDF leak air.

 

[mightycicadalord]

Im talking quality not quantity. The most important thing in a subwoofer is correct LP and HP filtering, where Genelec eat all other brands alive. This is crucial to get a really good sound. Most people dont understand this. And the value in the long run Is much better with a good fabric sub.

As a DIY:er who has built 11 different subwoofers ( including some isobarics ) thru the years - one of the most important things to get right even with a closed box is the Linkwitz transformer slope at the exactly right frequency with correct Q, AND the right box size. This means that if youre not incredible lucky in the first place you have to build a couple of test boxes of different sizes. You also have to paint the inside of a raw MDF box because MDF leak air.

I am also talking about quality. filtering isn't hard at all. a 50w 7040 gets beaten by a budget dayton sub ( I had both at one time, no real contest between the two, physics and what not).

They make nice stuff but it's not magic.

 

[gy-k]

one of the most important things to get right even with a closed box is the Linkwitz transformer slope at the exactly right frequency with correct Q, AND the right box size.

Wouldn't you just target 0.577 or 0.5 as the best values for the Q of your closed box. I dig the the BMS 12S330 because the sim shows Fb=72, Qtc=0.58 for just 16l net volume (probably a 19l box, 300mm cube). That Fb might be still okay for LT with an additional HPF if taking the small size over SPL. Would need 300W to reach its not huge Xmax of 8mm + 1mm is the other price of the small size, adding a second one halves that for the same SPL.

 

[Anonamemouse]

There is no easy solution for a DIY:er because if you buy a SVS sub the result probably gonna be better than any DIY, and the second hand market is much better if you buy something from a brand in a store. Your DIY subs, no matter if they would sound rather good, is wortheless if you would try to sell them after a couple of years , so :

1. Its better to buy a new or second hand subwoofer from a real brand. You will save money that way.
2. Its almost impossible to do better DIY than SVS , REL or Genelec. They have the skills no DIY:er have, and they pay only a fraction for the same driveunits that you as a DIY:er must pay for.
3. But, if your purpose is different - and you want to have fun building something for yourself, then go for it.
The Dayton reference series is really good. The results might be rather good as long as you dont compare with REL, SVS or Genelec.

1: even if you are a complete nitwit when it comes to diy, this is 100% nonsense. There are tons of building plans online, the link given in the first reply is such an example. I know someone that built this particular project and is beyond happy with the results. Mr Gravesen built a lot of excellent loudspeakers.
2: it is really easy to do better than the big brands. Over 85% of the price you pay for those is R&D, manufacturing costs, transport, dealer profit, advertising, etc. All money you can spend on a much more high end diy project. Even if you give detailed plans to a woodworker to have them built for you, you will be spending a lot less.

 

[Davide]

What about the new Dayton Max-X series? Seems to be a "cheaper" Ultimax.
But I can't find any distortion figure...
By the way, with a 2 ohm dual voice coil, how do I connect the amplifier? In series or on a single coil? Parallel seems impossible to me ...

 

[voodooless]

By the way, with a 2 ohm dual voice coil, how do I connect the amplifier? In series or on a single coil? Parallel seems impossible to me ...

To get 4R, connect them in series.

 

[Davide]

To get 4R, connect them in series.

No changes in performance I suppose, right?

 

[voodooless]

No changes in performance I suppose, right?

Well, yes there is. Different configurations get you different parameters. Datasheet usually shows 4R configuration though.

 

[Davide]

Well, yes there is. Different configurations get you different parameters. Datasheet usually shows 4R configuration though.

Ok, thanks.
As for the inductance, someone points out that the new Max-X is 5 times that of the Ultimax. Is that something to be aware of?

 

[voodooless]

Ok, thanks.
As for the inductance, someone points out that the new Max-X is 5 times that of the Ultimax. Is that something to be aware of?

In general, high inductance is equated with less good upper bass. It shows in the falling response above ~100Hz. It also points the the motor not having shorting rings, which generally lower distortion. The Ultimax has them at least.

 

[Davide]

In general, high inductance is equated with less good upper bass. It shows in the falling response above ~100Hz. It also points the the motor not having shorting rings, which generally lower distortion. The Ultimax has them at least.

Understood.
I believe that given the minimal price difference I will consider the RS series and the Ultimax.
At the same price what is better between Ultimax 12 "and RS 15"?

 

[voodooless]

At the same price what is better between Ultimax 12 "and RS 15"?

Best to simulate in the box size you want to use.

 

[muad]

Understood.
I believe that given the minimal price difference I will consider the RS series and the Ultimax.
At the same price what is better between Ultimax 12 "and RS 15"?

I would like to know this as well. Also, there's the HO, HF and the new high excursion reference models