Reality Check - Does this reviewer make any sense at all?

[fpitas]

Cables can indeed affect the amplifier: it gets complicated:

Loudspeaker Cable Characteristic Impedance

What is the effect of the characteristic impedance of a loudspeaker cable? Is it important to match the cable to the speaker load impedance, or is this simply a marketing ploy?

sound-au.com

The solution to cable woes is RF termination, as Rod discusses.

 

[mhardy6647]

I think it is abundantly clear that the most important element of really truly successful cables for high-end audio is... a very cool logo.

Sort of the tech equivalent of the clear plastic binder for a report.

PS This strategy got me all the way to a PhD from an at least nominally prestigious private university. Of course, YMMV.

 

[ADU]

Thanks for posting the link to the headphone cable comparison test. What a breath of fresh air!!!! NO measurable/audible/imagined difference, at all!!!

It would be interesting to see how some stock HFM cables actually perform and measure in similar tests with some other headphone cables. Maybe another grapher or user has already tried something like this though, and posted some FR measurements of the cables?

This might be something that a user could also try with some type of in-ear mic, to at least see the FR effects on the headphone's raw in-ear response. The tests would probably have to be repeated several times though to reduce the chances of other variables influencing and possibly skewing the final results.

 

[sq225917]

There's literally nothing to measure, a cable would have to be catastrophically badly designed to have any effect.

 

[tomtoo]

Thank you for the reply, tomtoo.

By "lcr element", are you referring to an RLC circuit?...

RLC circuit - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'd generally agree with this, fwiw.

Yes, exactly. I just wanted to make this clear. Subjectists often say this. But its wrong. Cables can change sound, but there are known mechanics behind. No magic silver dust.

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

Cable is either fit for purpose or not. The belief of the maker /buyer /listener doesn't really come into this does it?

yes I agree, in practice it doesn't matter however for debates/discussions people might not engage in discussions like that if they don't already have some sort of a belief in either side (since they don't care about it)

 

[Audiofire]

it’s called ‘urwissenschaft’ - the one true source

What is the source for that image?

I really meant scholarly studies.

Bibliography:

Speaker Cables and Interconnects

 

[spacessound]

What is the source for that image?


Bibliography:

Speaker Cables and Interconnects

From a book The acoustic argument: science and listening experience in architecture of the 20th century. (My translation from German - published by the Dept. Architektur ETH Zürich. gta Verlag) the picture appears in a section on The ear as measuring instrument and as organ of perception, and shows a researcher (Vivian L Chrisle) studying the effect of the public (bodies) on reverberation times in theatres (around 1930) . Just as electrical measuring instruments were available.

 

[Audiofire]

From a book The acoustic argument: science and listening experience in architecture of the 20th century. (My translation from German - published by the Dept. Architektur ETH Zürich. gta Verlag)

Das akustische Argument: Wissenschaft und Hörerfahrung in der Architektur des 20. Jahrhunderts by Sabine von Fischer (I can luckily read German rather well)

 

[Jimster480]

Right? I struggle to even imagine a scientifically sound explanation for the cable being responsible for what the reviewer described.

Well had he mentioned that the cable siding is annoying and causes sonic issues, I would have believed him. I hate the stock Ananda cable. The coating on it is annoying and causes microsonics (duno if that is the word) as it brushes my clothes sometimes (or the desk). Also the split (where it goes from 1 cable into 2 in order to plug into the headphone) is but and gets caught on my desk. So I just swapped it out with some ebay braided cable for $25. Didn't hear any sonic difference (didn't expect to, since it wouldn't make sense).

I'd venture to guess that it's his Schiitty Asguard amp that causes these "treble peaks".

Well, it's buzzword bingo there.

The only objectively sensible comment in that couple of minute section is about the awful (from a look and feel perspective) medical /worm type Hifiman cable.

Injecting /taming treble peaks? Huh? To be honest it smacked of a reason to mention Hart cables.

Plus, he invokes burn in. So he didn't hear the treble peak with stock cable at first, but did after a good burn in? Huh?

Ask him to speculate what physical properties of the cable cause no treble peak at first but cause one after a few days burn in.

Nonsense.

Actually he mentions that he first listened with a different cable than stock and only heard it after he went to the stock cable.
Still makes no sense.

I can't answer this. But here's a graph from a 2012 Stereophile article that compared the FR of some different speaker cables, fwiw.

Stereophile is a publication that is geared towards audiophiles btw. The least expensive cable was not the worst performer in this test though.

Interesting but even in the worst case I don't think that would be audible?

 

[Jimster480]

FWIW I've seen people said multiple times that Hifiman stock cables are dirt cheap and low in quality, so maybe it could have been degraded a fair bit? Especially since we question Hifiman's QC all the time.

about cables, dacs and so on I guess you will only have the same answer here. Subjectively I do hear differences sometimes but I am aware it might be my own mind playing tricks with me. I once tested several expensive DACs together and even though the test was not blinded nor volume-matched at all me and my pals found no noticeable differences (hegel, topping, schiit, cambridge...)

This depends on what you are listening to. Level matching is how you hear differences which may be present. However I haven't noticed any "major" differences even between dac chip brands.

 

[spacessound]

Das akustische Argument: Wissenschaft und Hörerfahrung in der Architektur des 20. Jahrhunderts by Sabine von Fischer (I can luckily read German rather well)

That’s it

 

[Audiofire]

I hate the stock Ananda cable. The coating on it is annoying and causes microsonics (duno if that is the word) as it brushes my clothes sometimes (or the desk).

Microphonics from the cable is an indication of poor quality, and Hifiman kind of looked like a rip-off brand to me anyway.

Interesting but even in the worst case I don't think that would be audible?

0.1 dB is negligible, so the test further shows that the listening results from Stereophile were insignificant.

 

[Barry_G]

Couple of comments:

1. The stock Edition XS cable does NOT suffer from microphonics.

2. Let's just forget about the absurd Stereophile plot of speaker cable frequency response. That's NOT a plot of speaker cable frequency response. The amp and speakers were both connected when they made those plots. If you search, you can find Stereophile's MG3.6 speaker review and you'll find some response curves of the speaker's crossover network and THAT is what you're seeing reflected, to varying degrees, in those speaker cable response curves. Garbage science on Stereophile's part, imho. Yes, they DID measure something but they did NOT know what they were measuring.

 

[Jimster480]

Microphonics from the cable is an indication of poor quality, and Hifiman kind of looked like a rip-off brand to me anyway.


0.1 dB is negligible, so the test further shows that the listening results from Stereophile were insignificant.

Hifiman isn't a rip-off brand lol, it depends on what you are buying. I have some Ananda's that sound great, one of my favorite headphones honestly.
However I hate the stock cable as I mentioned

Couple of comments:

1. The stock Edition XS cable does NOT suffer from microphonics.

2. Let's just forget about the absurd Stereophile plot of speaker cable frequency response. That's NOT a plot of speaker cable frequency response. The amp and speakers were both connected when they made those plots. If you search, you can find Stereophile's MG3.6 speaker review and you'll find some response curves of the speaker's crossover network and THAT is what you're seeing reflected, to varying degrees, in those speaker cable response curves. Garbage science on Stereophile's part, imho. Yes, they DID measure something but they did NOT know what they were measuring.

Yes but in theory it could be true, different cable qualities and different materials could in theory produce a slightly different response. Even if this graph were true (which you are saying it isn't) it wouldn't matter as it likely wouldn't be audible in the worst case.

 

[ADU]

Couple of comments:

1. The stock Edition XS cable does NOT suffer from microphonics.

2. Let's just forget about the absurd Stereophile plot of speaker cable frequency response. That's NOT a plot of speaker cable frequency response. The amp and speakers were both connected when they made those plots. If you search, you can find Stereophile's MG3.6 speaker review and you'll find some response curves of the speaker's crossover network and THAT is what you're seeing reflected, to varying degrees, in those speaker cable response curves. Garbage science on Stereophile's part, imho. Yes, they DID measure something but they did NOT know what they were measuring.

My suggestion is to get some in-ear mics, and do your own FR comparisons with some different cables. And then report back to us with your results.

 

[Chrispy]

My suggestion is to get some in-ear mics, and do your own FR comparisons with some different cables. And then report back to us with your results.

Why would it need to be IEMs? Are IEMs particularly subject to minor cable differences? How about real speakers?

 

[ADU]

Not in-ear monitors, Chrispy. In-ear mics.

 

[Chrispy]

Not in-ear monitors, Chrispy. In-ear mics.

Yeah I always stick mics in my ears, sorry, my bad.

 

[Barry_G]

My suggestion is to get some in-ear mics, and do your own FR comparisons with some different cables. And then report back to us with your results.

I don't need to, Amir already did that (as you yourself posted previously):